Oh, there was lots that was less than stellar. Mynocks looked ridiculous, most of the acting in Return of the Jedi is pretty poor, and if you've ever tried watching it without John Williams soundtrack.... well don't try that. My point is that the original trilogy was a light-hearted good story with great music, top of the line effects with WONDERFUL concept designs, and one or two great actors that carried the rest. IMO, the prequel triology is a good story with good music, good effects with WONDERFUL concept designs, and one or two great actors who almost carry the rest. The writing was never exceptional.

I agree on some points, but disagree on others, and on the gist. I don't know what you mean about the mynocks or the acting in Jedi. I agree that the music is absolutely critical to the whole thing - pulls together something that's basically very silly and gives it some deep emotional resonance, be that emotion tenderness, excitement, anger, etc. I disagree that the writing was bad, but then I don't think it was bad in the prequels. Well, to qualify that, I don't think the dialogue was bad, I do think the writing totally failed to convey believably the three essential stories the prequels had to convey: the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker (utterly unconvincing, I felt), the Clone Wars (made very little sense) and the rise of the Emporer (closely connected to the first two, so really didn't ring true for me). But the dialogue I thought was fine, just badly directed. Everyone always points to the "I don't like sand" line as an example of awful dialogue - I think it was fitting! He was a whiney, annoying teenager, that was a believable line. It was her response that wasn't believable.

Oh, there was lots that was less than stellar. Mynocks looked ridiculous, most of the acting in Return of the Jedi is pretty poor, and if you've ever tried watching it without John Williams soundtrack.... well don't try that. My point is that the original trilogy was a light-hearted good story with great music, top of the line effects with WONDERFUL concept designs, and one or two great actors that carried the rest. IMO, the prequel triology is a good story with good music, good effects with WONDERFUL concept designs, and one or two great actors who almost carry the rest. The writing was never exceptional.

I agree on some points, but disagree on others, and on the gist. I don't know what you mean about the mynocks or the acting in Jedi. I agree that the music is absolutely critical to the whole thing - pulls together something that's basically very silly and gives it some deep emotional resonance, be that emotion tenderness, excitement, anger, etc. I disagree that the writing was bad, but then I don't think it was bad in the prequels. Well, to qualify that, I don't think the dialogue was bad, I do think the writing totally failed to convey believably the three essential stories the prequels had to convey: the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker (utterly unconvincing, I felt), the Clone Wars (made very little sense) and the rise of the Emporer (closely connected to the first two, so really didn't ring true for me). But the dialogue I thought was fine, just badly directed. Everyone always points to the "I don't like sand" line as an example of awful dialogue - I think it was fitting! He was a whiney, annoying teenager, that was a believable line. It was her response that wasn't believable.

I assume we are both talking about undubbed English versions of the films, so examples of bad acting in the originals... Luke's reactions to threepio being deified (covers his mouth to hose unconvincing laugh), "thanks threepio", "we better look for her", etc. just poorly delivered IMO. I agree the love between padme and a akin was poorly conveyed, whether due to acting or directing is not important. I think the story of a skins fall was great, only change I would have made was in ep. II, I think he should have gone to tatooine to free they slaves and been more of a noble character as a result. Palpatines rise.... Perfect, convincing, backed in history and very fitting. But we can agree to disagree.

I assume we are both talking about undubbed English versions of the films, so examples of bad acting in the originals... Luke's reactions to threepio being deified (covers his mouth to hose unconvincing laugh), "thanks threepio", "we better look for her", etc. just poorly delivered IMO. I agree the love between padme and a akin was poorly conveyed, whether due to acting or directing is not important. I think the story of a skins fall was great, only change I would have made was in ep. II, I think he should have gone to tatooine to free they slaves and been more of a noble character as a result. Palpatines rise.... Perfect, convincing, backed in history and very fitting. But we can agree to disagree.

Hmm, I'll have to re-watch them, but I think I can sort of remember what you mean, regarding some of Luke's lines.

I thought Anakin's fall was absurdly sudden. He went from being a nice guy, albeit grumpy and full of himself, to being a homicidal maniac. He was working with the Emperor reluctantly, to save Padme, then all of a sudden he's totes on his side, yelling about how the Jedi are evil (after killing a bunch of kids), how he wants an empire. Choking Padme and fighting Obiwan I can sort of get, in the heat of the moment (he thinks they're all against him), but then after how that works out, and Padme (and hence his reason for working with the Emperor) is dead he still supports him? Why?

As for the war, I don't understand that at all. Maybe it made sense in the comics or books, but the films did nothing to make it clear to me. The Republic was a democracy wasn't it? If a bunch of planets wanted to secede why would a nice, civilized Republic seek to stop them militarily, let alone go to the measures they did? Also, the seperatists seemed to be led by the ultra-capitalists - isn't a large trading blok in the interests of such people? And how does their initial concern with Naboo come into it - that was about trade restrictions/taxes/tariffs imposed locally, at the planet level wasn't it? If you break up the Republic you'll have more such stuff, not less.

The senate enacted large tariffs during the events leading up to ep. I, this caused large corporations to lose money, as taxes often do. Palpatine approached the Trade Federation offering to make the problem go away, and they agreed to do what he wanted. Obviously, the choice of planets they blockaded was his choice, as it created the crisis needed to unseat Valorrum and sympathy which allowed him to get elected. The Separatists left the Republic due to corruption/lack of influence in the Senate and followed Dooku, again with the promise of loot and influence in the new government. The Republic was fighting to retain their "empire", exactly like the American Union Army fought to retain the Confederates against their will during the Civil War. The whole point of the first three films was to follow the slow, downward spiral that results in a "civilized" government gradually slipping into dictatorship due to escalation, loss of a strong moral base, and political opportunism. It is based on several examples from real history in which democracies collapse into dictatorships. George Lucas often cited Nazism as the inspiration.

As far as Anakin's turn, I never had a problem with it. He starts ep. III as the hero, and is slowly manipulated by everyone. The Jedi want him to spy on Palpatine which is dishonest, violating a friendship, and illegal. They were using him. He sees Windu and the council set aside the rules they expect him to follow whenever it suits their purposes. Padme asks him to use his influence with Palpatine to further her cause, again using him. Palpatine betrays him completely, but seems to be the only solution to the ONE problem Anakin truly cares about, Padme's death. Once he helps kill Windu, there is no turning back, and he marches on despite his remorse (he knows he is falling, but commits to it thinking it will save Padme). After she dies, he is a broken half man who has lost his love and most of his skill with the force, and no longer stands a chance of killing Palpatine. He was seduced by the dark side, and once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Unless you have a son who believes in you enough to show you your error, and help you redeem yourself. Works for me. If you haven't done so, I recommend reading the ROTS novellization. Decent book, and I think it helped to fill in some gaps on the script.

...okay....

So did the original trilogy when not viewed through the lens of nostalgia...

You mean Ewoks? I can't think of anything else that wasn't awesome in the originals. Well, maybe the weird double cockpit speeder thing from Cloud City, what was that about?

Another point, all opinions aside, stuff that is canon cannot just be ignored. Clone wars is canon.

Well, FFG can ignore it if they want to. Not saying they will (they haven't ignored prequel stuff in the RPGs) but they could.

Dude the cloud cars were awesome!! What are you talking about?

Agree with most posters here.

My 2 bits though...

Fantasy Flight could make a fortune off selling a build-your-own hero kit, as most Star Wars races are roughly humanoid.

Like this: The Gunfighter Kit:

4x bodies in gunfighting poses 2 male, 2 female, various body types

12 x heads- 2 each of 6 different races

10 weapons in hands

Not too complex, easy peg-in-hole assembly

Expansions could include other heads, armored bodies, weapon packs (along with crate cards to obtain the new stuff)

This would support both games and give us all something to rejoice over. And let's face it, does it matter if the Rebel Hero I'm playing is a Human or a Rodian?

SO to close... I also want more companions. SWTOR players know what I mean here- make one of the class cards a companion add-on for each hero. I call dibs on Maki!

Death Star / Imp. Navy Troopers:

100% agree. These guys don't get near enough love but I bet they outnumbered StormTroopers 10-1. I'd love to see enough of these types to do a whole no-Stormtrooper Imperial force.