Salvation+AF Carrier list!

By Onca, in Star Wars: Armada Fleet Builds

One of my most successful lists involves a lot of squadrons controlled by an AF, and a tantive to keep chucking tokens at it.

I also want Salvation to work somehow. So I thought I'd mix it up.

Some notes:
I had Wedge, but given the current 300pt meta, where squads are uncommon, I thought I'd use Luke instead.

A-wings are there for the rare occasion where I will have to face some kind of fighters.

The playstyle is: Salvation constantly CFs the biggest target out there, AF uses her 4 squad points to send the bombers at the ships. The A wings will activate on their own during squad phase. Their primary function is to hold up any potential fighter screens so the bombers can get thru.

I am debating H9 vs Paragon. I havent really tried XX-9 before, but I am worried paragon would force me to sacrifice safer positioning for a double arc.

Also considering Dodanna. But I want better survivability for my AF and Salvation.

Thoughts?

LIST:
1 • Assault Frigate Mark II B

- Mon Mothma (30)

- Adar Tallon (10)

- Expanded Hangar Bay (5)

- Electronic Countermeasures (7)

- XX-9 Turbolasers (5)
• Total : 129

2 • Nebulon-B Support Refit

- Leia Organa (3)

- H9 Turbolasers (8)

- Salvation (7)
• Total : 69

3 • Luke Skywalker X-wing Squadron - X-wing (20)
4 • Keyan Farlander B-wing Squadron - B-wing (20)

5 • B-wing Squadron - B-wing (14)

6 • B-wing Squadron - B-wing (14)

7 • A-wing Squadron - A-wing (11)

8 • A-wing Squadron - A-wing (11)

9 • A-wing Squadron - A-wing (11)

My .02 on your choices:

  • In a list with only two evade tokens, I don't know that Mothma's your ideal choice. Her ability is best when you're running 3+ ships, especially if they're CR90s. I would drop down to Dodonna, Garm isn't a bad choice with two higher command ships, either.
  • If you're dropping Mothma, Countermeasures isn't as points efficient and you should consider Advanced Projectors, but ECM isn't terrible if you want to keep it.
  • Unless you're running Dodonna, XX-9s are a subpar choice. Consider a different turbolaser upgrade here, or none at all.
  • Leia is not going to perform as well on a 2 command ship for you. She shines on a CR90 where you can choose what she gives out every round, anything higher than command 1 with her and you're still having to plan ahead.
  • H9s are a good answer for fighting Rebel fleets, I find, giving you the power to lock down those Evade tokens, but they work best on blue dice; on reds you only have a 3/8 chance of rolling damage, and if you do there's a 33% chance it's going to be the double hit that you won't want to trade. XI7s are cheaper and have no dice cost associated with them, so think about those (they also make mockery of heavy redirect ships like VSDs)
  • With that many squadrons, I question why you aren't taking Yavaris as the Neb's title to get double shots off. I understand kitting out the Neb as a sniper rifle, but doing that is only really effective with at least two, if not three, of them rolling in a firing line. Luke in particular excels when he can drop two black die Bomber shots that ignore shields with Yavaris.
  • As far as Paragon goes, unless you're experienced with maneuvering your Guppy to get those crucial double-arc shots lined up, Paragon isn't going to net you many shots. It is decently cheap, though, so not a total waste of points.

What objectives are you thinking of taking?

Personal opinion: too many squadrons, not enough squadron value on ships to activate them. I like the concept of running only as many squadrons as you can activate in one turn via dials. Run more, and somebody is half as effective.

And I want to love Nebs as bad as you are, but I've yet to see them be effective. That being said, take an escort variant, add Yavaris, drop to 6 total fighters, and keep two squads with Yavaris to run as bonus damage OR protection depending on opposing fleet.

I'd recommend thinking about going Dodonna or Garm. But Mothma would be ok as well. Just because you'll want to lay the nasty crits down.

I think you'll get more out of Dodonna Critting it up, or just sheer Token Flexibility with Garm. Although that said, Garm really asks to lay as many tokens out as possible, which means getting as many high-command ships out as possible, which would mean, potentailly another Neb-B...

Edited by Drasnighta

My .02 on your choices:

  • In a list with only two evade tokens, I don't know that Mothma's your ideal choice. Her ability is best when you're running 3+ ships, especially if they're CR90s. I would drop down to Dodonna, Garm isn't a bad choice with two higher command ships, either.
  • If you're dropping Mothma, Countermeasures isn't as points efficient and you should consider Advanced Projectors, but ECM isn't terrible if you want to keep it.

I wanted to go Mothma because without a redirect, I think the nebulons are super weak. But I get what you mean. I'm spending 30 points for just two objective tokens. I think Dodonna might be better than Garm. Especially with Luke.

As for ECM, is AP that much better? I prefer ECM on AF's because AF's have 1 of each objective token. So all my opponent needs is one accuracy to hamper my chances. I've not had much experience with AP tbh. I will give it a try, though.

Unless you're running Dodonna, XX-9s are a subpar choice. Consider a different turbolaser upgrade here, or none at all.

Leia is not going to perform as well on a 2 command ship for you. She shines on a CR90 where you can choose what she gives out every round, anything higher than command 1 with her and you're still having to plan ahead.

H9s are a good answer for fighting Rebel fleets, I find, giving you the power to lock down those Evade tokens, but they work best on blue dice; on reds you only have a 3/8 chance of rolling damage, and if you do there's a 33% chance it's going to be the double hit that you won't want to trade. XI7s are cheaper and have no dice cost associated with them, so think about those (they also make mockery of heavy redirect ships like VSDs)

With the points drop from Mothma to Dodonna, I might switch to either X-17 or EA. I agree with you on the H9 part, and since AF has 1 blue dice on the side, I dont see much of a point (although I can just dedicate that single blue dice on an accuracy).

As for Leia, I intend on using the Salvation purely for attacking, and the AF as a carrier. But if in a pinch I need my AF to CF, I can just Leia it from my Salvation. It was more of a weak add. Lemme see if I can substitute her for something else.

  • With that many squadrons, I question why you aren't taking Yavaris as the Neb's title to get double shots off. I understand kitting out the Neb as a sniper rifle, but doing that is only really effective with at least two, if not three, of them rolling in a firing line. Luke in particular excels when he can drop two black die Bomber shots that ignore shields with Yavaris.
  • As far as Paragon goes, unless you're experienced with maneuvering your Guppy to get those crucial double-arc shots lined up, Paragon isn't going to net you many shots. It is decently cheap, though, so not a total waste of points.
What objectives are you thinking of taking?

I think Yavaris requires too many moving parts to be consistent. As for Lukes double, I can just use my Adar, right?

Paragon IS good. I usually include it, but I dont see much value in it with this setup. I might even prefer Gallant.

As for objectives, I was thinking:

Advanced Gunnery: It is quite good on a Salvation, also if I decide to add paragon, its a good card.

Hyperspace Assault: I hate the yellow objectives, I think this is the least damaging to me. I also reckon fleet ambush may be good, but I've had some bad experiences with it haha.

Dangerous territory: Can be great with Dodonna. I've never used it before though. I dont wanna wuss out and go for superior positions

And I want to love Nebs as bad as you are, but I've yet to see them be effective. That being said, take an escort variant, add Yavaris, drop to 6 total fighters, and keep two squads with Yavaris to run as bonus damage OR protection depending on opposing fleet.

I dont really wanna go full fighter. It hasnt worked too well for me in the past...

I think you'll get more out of Dodonna Critting it up, or just sheer Token Flexibility with Garm. Although that said, Garm really asks to lay as many tokens out as possible, which means getting as many high-command ships out as possible, which would mean, potentailly another Neb-B...

Hmm, I think that may be a possibility, too. I'll play around with the list and see!

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I made a few alterations.

1 • Assault Frigate Mark II B

- General Dodonna (20)

-Adar Tallon (10)

- Flight Controllers (6)

- Expanded Hangar Bay (5)

- XI7 Turbolasers (6)

• Total : 119

2 • Nebulon-B Support Refit

- XI7 Turbolasers (6)

- Salvation (7)

• Total : 64

3 • CR90a Corellian Corvette

- Dodonna's Pride (6)

• Total : 50

4 • Luke Skywalker X-wing Squadron - X-wing (20)

• Total : 20

5 • Keyan Farlander B-wing Squadron - B-wing (20)

• Total : 20

6 • B-wing Squadron - B-wing (14)

• Total : 14

7 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)

• Total : 13

Total Fleet cost: 300

Removing Mothma, freed up some points to move around.

Flight controllers: I added this because I realised in the past getting tied up in dogfights can stall me quite a bit. The extra blue dice helps my bombers move through a fighter screen that is close to the enemy. It also lets me remove my A wing screen. This feels a bit vulnerable to heavy interceptors/A-wings. I wanna test this out first and see what happens (might run a few simulations).

X17 because It's fairly cheap and good value: If I can quickly get an arc shield down, itll let Dodonnas effect happen sooner, and bombers can get thru easily. Especially ol' Keyan

Salvation is essentially the same. I wanted to add an Intel Officer, just to weaken the ship. Long range high dmg on the salvation will also force my opponent to make unfavourable choices as early as possible. But alas no points. I might replace ECM with Intel officer for Salvation. Thoughts?

I added Dodonna's pride. Partly because I dont want to risk being tabled with just 2 ships. Should things turn south for Salvation and the AFM, I can just run Pride away, while my bombers try take ships down. I may move Dodonna himself to it, depending on the survivability of the CRA.

Replaced a B-wing with an X. With the loss of the A-wing escort, I feel the need to have a few more blue dies in-case I come across a fighter swarm.

Edit: Just did a quick comparison of an X-wing pool with Flight controllers and without.

With the Flight controller's 5 dice anti squad, I have a 50% chance of getting at least 3 hits on my roll. Without it, I have a 31% chance of getting at least 3 hits (3 hits being enough to take out a tie int or a tie fight).

If I wanted to take out an A wing on a single hit, its just 18% with FC, and half that without. Now, on 2 turns of volleys (or good ol' Adar), I have an 82% chance to take out an A-wing, and a 62% chance to take out an X (Adar: 74 and 50) with FCs. Without FCs, I have a 63% and 36% chance for A and X respectively (same for Adar).

The combined anti squad pool of my squadrons per turn with and without FC is:

sm5NRlV.pngIts not a huge difference, but it lets me deal with double TIEs (I/F) and double A wings in a single turn fairly handily, compared to without FC. Anyway moving on.

I was looking at this to try justify FC over GH.

GH would require some moving around, since im at 300 pt and GH is 8 vs FCs 6. Assuming I was in GH range, the damage 2 volleys of a regular TIE I or an X wing squadron would be as follows (compared to non-GH)

cOXwquS.png

Remember, all my squads are 5 hit points, so GH reduces the chance of one of my ships getting whacked by two Xes or TIE/Is (or in 2 turns from single) from 36.33% to 14.45%

Not bad.

The big problem is also the pesky counter 2 you get from As and TIE/Is. Theres a 50% chance of scoring a hit on a single counter, and the GH just brings it down to only 25% chance for a single hit.

Therefore I reckon the GH is better... Im just not sure though. The current meta doesnt go for very many squads, and most of the time I encounter just double As or A+Tycho. Which my squads, with flight controllers, have a 75% chance of taking out in just a single turn.

Edited by Onca

I want to add my vote for Dodana. His ability is extremely powerful. Look at the top 4, pick the card that bones them the most. In one game I got to lock down a star destroyer because of the extremely limited movement they were stuck with. In another game I got to pick out that Structural Damage card and get a kill in before the ship got to activate. Garm provides more flexibility and Mon Mothma creates more survivability. But dear god man you're running squadrons with bomber and black dice. You don't need increased survivability when the enemy is dead.

Gallant Haven is only worth it if you're going to keep your fighters close to your guppy, and it sounds more like you want them to strike out at enemy ships/fighters with squad commands. So it really depends on your plan of attack.

ECM on the Neb certainly makes it more survivable, but honestly I think it's a waste of points on a fragile ship like that. Giving it Intel will let the shots it does get off even better, and setting up the guppy/fighters for a kill strike is what it's there to do, so why not make it better at its job?

As far as ECM vs AP on the guppy, with the amount of shields your AF is packing, being able to spread the damage around with a redirect is a life saver, and cuts down on the number of engineering orders you'll need to give it. ECM does allow you to always have the one defense you want up, but with the variety it has you're probably going to have at least one decent one to choose from unless you're slugging it out at close range, and if you are something's gone wrong anyway. I prefer AP for that reason, as well as being a soft counter to the XI7, which is favored right now.

I think Yavaris requires too many moving parts to be consistent. As for Lukes double, I can just use my Adar, right?

Paragon IS good. I usually include it, but I dont see much value in it with this setup. I might even prefer Gallant.

As for objectives, I was thinking:

Advanced Gunnery: It is quite good on a Salvation, also if I decide to add paragon, its a good card.

Hyperspace Assault: I hate the yellow objectives, I think this is the least damaging to me. I also reckon fleet ambush may be good, but I've had some bad experiences with it haha.

Dangerous territory: Can be great with Dodonna. I've never used it before though. I dont wanna wuss out and go for superior positions

Oh, and...

Yavaris is really good for clearing out enemy fighters from your bombers, but yes, it does take a little setting up and maneuvering, and it helps to put a Squad token on it in the 1st or 2nd turn for emergencies. And with Adar you can potentially get THREE Luke shots!

Objective thoughts:

  • Advanced Gunnery is not typically a great Rebel choice, as Imperial opponents will pounce on it for their VSDs. Since you now have a CR90 in the list, I think you should go with Most Wanted, so you can choose that and either run it away fast to draw fire or (my favorite) loop it around and use it anyway, as doubling its points isn't a dealbreaker for the game.
  • Hyperspace Assault is a good choice with your updated list, as you just have to play for time with the Neb and CR90 until the AF can come it for a rear/side attack with Luke and the B's. You could also pick Contested Outpost, making the enemy come to you and parking your bombers on the objective. If they don't, you rack up VPs. If they do, they eat B-Wing and Luke shots the whole time.
  • Don't undersell Dangerous Territory. The teal deer on the mission text is: I don't worry about obstacles and can rack up the VPs with my CR90 with no cost to me, while you either try to table me (which means coming closer to your bombers) or try to get some VPs and damage yourself in the process (and my red dice scrap your weakened ships from afar). I love that objective.

Gallant Haven is only worth it if you're going to keep your fighters close to your guppy, and it sounds more like you want them to strike out at enemy ships/fighters with squad commands. So it really depends on your plan of attack.

ECM on the Neb certainly makes it more survivable, but honestly I think it's a waste of points on a fragile ship like that. Giving it Intel will let the shots it does get off even better, and setting up the guppy/fighters for a kill strike is what it's there to do, so why not make it better at its job?

As far as ECM vs AP on the guppy, with the amount of shields your AF is packing, being able to spread the damage around with a redirect is a life saver, and cuts down on the number of engineering orders you'll need to give it. ECM does allow you to always have the one defense you want up, but with the variety it has you're probably going to have at least one decent one to choose from unless you're slugging it out at close range, and if you are something's gone wrong anyway. I prefer AP for that reason, as well as being a soft counter to the XI7, which is favored right now.

Hmm you make a strong case for AP. I'll give it a shot next time I play!

Oh, and...

Yavaris is really good for clearing out enemy fighters from your bombers, but yes, it does take a little setting up and maneuvering, and it helps to put a Squad token on it in the 1st or 2nd turn for emergencies. And with Adar you can potentially get THREE Luke shots!

Objective thoughts:

  • Advanced Gunnery is not typically a great Rebel choice, as Imperial opponents will pounce on it for their VSDs. Since you now have a CR90 in the list, I think you should go with Most Wanted, so you can choose that and either run it away fast to draw fire or (my favorite) loop it around and use it anyway, as doubling its points isn't a dealbreaker for the game.
  • Hyperspace Assault is a good choice with your updated list, as you just have to play for time with the Neb and CR90 until the AF can come it for a rear/side attack with Luke and the B's. You could also pick Contested Outpost, making the enemy come to you and parking your bombers on the objective. If they don't, you rack up VPs. If they do, they eat B-Wing and Luke shots the whole time.
  • Don't undersell Dangerous Territory. The teal deer on the mission text is: I don't worry about obstacles and can rack up the VPs with my CR90 with no cost to me, while you either try to table me (which means coming closer to your bombers) or try to get some VPs and damage yourself in the process (and my red dice scrap your weakened ships from afar). I love that objective.

Yeah, I know how strong Yavaris can be. I just dont think it's worth it. At least for the style of this fleet- not saying it wont work in any others.

Ill go thru the objectives again and see if I can come up with anything ebtter. I still think AG is great as Ill be second player. I may be overselling the black dice for salvation.

I considered Hyperspace, but wouldnt leaving one of my squads behind be a problem? Although, I can just rush it towards the momma AF when I need to...

Or I can even assault with the CR. CR comes in, gets 1 or 2 shots of Doddona's pride+doddona banking on the chance that Ill be able to cripple some function of the ship, so the rest of my fleet can sweep it up.