So a small sample, but still good enough to show difficulty.

Mak, Fenn, Diala, Jyn - maybe not the best team (certainly I think Mak to be weak without a better gun)

I played it 8 times solo, but trying to win as both sides.

Rebels managed 3 wins, all on turn 6.

Imperials managed 2 wipe-out wins (all Rebels wounded)

In short the Rebels need to score between:

12 terminal hits (ignoring the outside one) and blow a door (8 hits plus a black die)

and 21 terminal hits (ignoring the outside one).

This will take the vast majority of the turns available to the rebel, so they don't really have the time to clear a path effectively.

if we average 3 hits in an activation, that's something like 11-12 actions required to kill the terminals or blow the doors (3 turns solid).

plus two turns of movement. This is all very rough but you get the idea, the margin for error is very very low, literally a few bad die rolls can stuff the Rebels.

So why beat the starting scenario to death?

Because it's the intro. It sets the pace for new players, showcases the game. etc. Badly, IMHO.

Not sure how to fix it though - I was toying with allowing one extra turn, perhaps two.

The imperial gets his full payouts too. So everyone gets everything.

Or perhaps better to allow say a grand of free kit or some XP to start off.. ?

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Interesting thoughts..

What did the Rebels do as their priority? Did they try to kill the Stormtrooper unit so it would take three turns to bring it out again or did they just kill a couple so it could reinforce one every turn? Did they prioritize the terminal/door to push the story forward and force the imperial to decide if they close the door and activate the red spawn or did they beef up the terminals and use only the one spawn in the rough terrain? How did the Rebels go about in the attacking of this scenario (more information would be nice to know)?

The handful of times that we played this mission it has been an overwhelming Rebel victory each time. The Rebels destory the outside forces first turn, then the outside terminal and possibly the door, depending on the terminal destruction rolls, on the second turn. Third turn they face the E-Web and additional forces in the complex, which the Imperial has both closed the door to activate the red spawn and the beef up to the terminals. Each time the threat level of two has kept the imperial pretty hampered in the mission. We've used different heroes, but the main ones being Fenn and Jyn, with at least one melee which is usually Diala since our group has fallen in love with her late game.

The only time the Rebels have failed this mission is when the Imperial player cheated; and it being our first time playing thought that was how it was done and only realized the folly the subsequent time playing. He beefed up the terminals AND used the red spawn location. Sadly we eliminated everything on turn 6 and was one activation away from winning the scenario which would have been turn 7.

Interesting to see the sample size and the results.

The impression I've got from my playthroughs is that Aftermath is consistently one of the closest missions. This is a good thing.

The other thing is: it's not actually good for the rebels to win aftermath since A New Threat is so much harder for them than Under Siege and the reward for "story mission 1" outweighs the reward for Aftermath.

So I don't think making Aftermath easier is advisable and I definitely don't think giving rebels free stuff to start is as if they get ahead they can just keep the Imperial player from sticking anything to the board in a lot of missions.

The Rebels destory the outside forces first turn...

It seems like you've either been ridiculously lucky or have done something wrong to get this result (unless you're exaggerating quite a lot). It should usually take starting rebels about 2 attacks to kill a stormtrooper or officer and 3 to kill a probe droid. That's 11 actions before movement and you should need at least a couple of moves to get some people into range and LoS. I can imagine blast and/or good luck trimming off a couple but not getting it done in the max 9 you have available. That said I'm not at your table so what do I know?

Well turn one I found to be pretty much a whitewash for the Rebels, they have the firepower to kill the storm troopers and the probe droid.

Sometimes they can take out the officer or the terminal too. The imperial might get a good ways toward injuring a character.

Turn two then becomes either clean-up and finishing outside or a half-dash inside (someone will have to remain to kill the terminal or else half the actions go in moving toward the door area)

So that's really the divergence point of the scenario.

Regardless, without some luck the e-web and the storm troopers are going to injure someone when the door does open and can generally fall back in order.

Having played it solo and trying to win as rebs, I have never seem an overwhelming victory and struggle to see how it's possible, really.

There simply isn't enough time to do everything!

Norgrath, yes you are correct two turns is more 'average' to kill the starting forces. that said, Finn can dish out a lot of blast damage and Mak can then clean that up pretty quickly.

Jyn also can burn through strain to shoot and finish before they move so it is doable, its a question of resources burned to achieve the result

And in terms of the follow on scenarios I really can't say because we only went down that path once for variety (the rebels didn't win but we did it anyway) and I don't remember the scenario now..

I was thinking that they could have the grand up front but nothing else till it's paid back.. that was the idea anyway.

It seems like you've either been ridiculously lucky or have done something wrong to get this result (unless you're exaggerating quite a lot). It should usually take starting rebels about 2 attacks to kill a stormtrooper or officer and 3 to kill a probe droid. That's 11 actions before movement and you should need at least a couple of moves to get some people into range and LoS. I can imagine blast and/or good luck trimming off a couple but not getting it done in the max 9 you have available. That said I'm not at your table so what do I know?

We usually set Jyn in the front to get off a Quick Shot at one of the Stormies which averages at least a damage on the guy, once the troopers are done we have Fenn and Garkhaan usually doing cleanup while the last character usually does whatever for the turn. With the Stormtroopers, I would say are activated first 99% of the time, we don't have to worry about major damage coming our way where we clear the enemy out. Might also depend on the hero team that is assembled.

I'd say the Imperials win Aftermath about 90% of the time, switching out the Imperial player between three of us and with multiple campaigns each.

It's done almost always by sticking troopers next to the crates and choosing Health 7 crates. Better if you can get the troopers in front so the Rebels have to either take the actions to shoot the Trooper, or move around them (not too hard) and shoot at Health 7, Block 2 crates.

That said, the Imperial player might actually think about taking a dive for Aftermath. For one, if the Rebels win, that's four delighted players that are now eager to step back into the fray. More objectively though, if the Imperials win Aftermath then the next story mission is Under Siege and, IIRC there is no way to avoid giving Rebels 2XP on Under Siege, and the Rebels start that mission next to four crates, so there's nothing to prevent 600 credits to the Rebellion treasury, the Imperial wins by Round 8 and simply denies them an extra 400, and if the Imperial player loses then the Rebels get a cool grand.

But if the Imperial player loses Aftermath, then the next mission is A New Threat. This is considerably more difficult for the Rebels to win, and if they do win they still wind up worse off at 200 credits down (I don't see Rebels picking up a lot of crates on this one). If they lose, they are even down an XP.

Of course, you give up an Influence in losing Aftermath, but as the Imperial Player, I would trade Influence for denying Rebel XP all day.

.... though purposely losing is very difficult to think about.

** Admission: I'm old and may be misremembering things. I haven't looked at the Campaign Guide in a while, but I remember thinking the above when comparing the win results.

I also believe both sides 'want' to lose Aftermath.

I also believe both sides 'want' to lose Aftermath.

Thinking of this: has anyone tried just giving +1 xp to the winning side to see what happens?

In short the Rebels need to score between:

12 terminal hits (ignoring the outside one) and blow a door (8 hits plus a black die)

and 21 terminal hits (ignoring the outside one).

6 rounds equals 48 actions. So destroying the terminals (if they are re-inforced) takes about 1/3rd or 1/4th of that (with the door being a major obstacle in the 2nd case).

Considering that

* Heros need to move towards the terminals

* Heros can benefit from strain movement

* Rolls with and against the E-Web can turn around battles

I'd say the actual thing you have to focus is the decision the IP gets to make.

I played a session yesterday and I (as IP) lost very early in the 6th round. The enemy team was Gaarkhan, Gideon, Jyn and Mak.

I opted to trap Gideon and Mak outside. I managed to wound 3 of 4 Heroes (in Order: Jyn, Gaarkhan and Gideon). I think the major mistake I made was to close the door instead of reinforcing the terminals. Mak and Gideon did lag behind Jyn and Gaarkhan so they would not have been able to contribute much, especially after Gideon lost his Pierce 2 because of him being wounded.

I tried to make either Jyn or Gaarkhan withdraw and was short 3 (Jyn) and 7 (Gaarkhan) hit points.

I will publish a video of our full playthrough later this week (because we played online) so you can review it. But it's quite obvious to me that this mission is won/lost with the IP's decisions to close the door or reinforce the terminals.

/edit: I played Aftermath 4 times now as IP only. I did win one (the one with Subversive Tactics) and lost the other 3 (1x Military Might and 2x Tech. Superiority).

I have always thought that increasing the terminals to 7 hits is more powerful.

The imp can buff the terminals further by standing next to them.

The imp can block line of sight to them.

The terminals are dispersed, and by that nature alone, harder to get to.

Would be interested in seeing your playthrough. While I don't believe the scenario is impossible (I've beaten it myself) it is very imperial-tilted..

I've played Aftermath 5 times with various different groups. Results are Rebels with 3 wins, Imps with 2. Seems like a balanced scenario but comes back to the above posters, its better to lose aftermath for both sides.

Aftermath was one of the few games I (as Imperial player) won in our campaign. And I think that's a good thing.

The Imperial player winning the first mission tells the Rebel players, "this is not an RPG. The GM will not be fudging dice rolls to make sure you win, where the fun is in telling the story. This is a game that both sides are actively trying to win . Get used to it."

Having learned that lesson, the Rebels in our campaign went out of their way to work together like a well-oiled machine in Under Siege. They panicked when the AT-ST turned up and panicked even more when Darth Vader turned up as well, but they combined their abilities and teamwork to get the win anyway... and loved it, feeling like they were triumphing over adversity.

I honestly believe that if they'd won the first mission they'd still have been blasé about the second mission, would not have worked together, would have got heavily beaten, and would have felt it unfair to face two of the hardest enemies in the game in only the second mission. It was much better in the long run for them to learn the harsh lesson in mission one - it let them know what the game is about.

Indeed, from then on, when the Rebels worked together, I struggled very hard to beat them. The only wins I got after that were when they got overconfident or took their eye off the prize, and acted more as individuals than a team. In that respect, I think losing the first mission did them a favour.

Just uploaded the campaign video:

Like I said: my main error was to lock the door when Mak and Gideo were out of the fight quite far away anyway. Also I could have spawned some units outside to pressure Mak, but this seemed quite hard to pull off.