There is lots to like about an episode VII push for this game. It will be a major benefit to the community to have more core sets on the shelves of Target and the like. More players = more money for FFG = more waves, more ships, more playtesters, more everything.

Avoiding power-creep completely is impractical but FFG has done a lot to instill confidence in the community that they will not make purely mercenary decisions and alienate their core customers.

Honestly, with wave 8, the vast majority of truly worthy OT era ships are in the game. Rebels and now the sequels are going to be the primary source of new ships and named pilots with wide appeal.

I should add that in narrative my example above is how I like to run, basically military campaigns around our own characters.

You might wish to re-create canonical events with the cards, in which case luke is luke etc.

Forge the narrative how you best wish, or just be boring and play 100/100.

One thing I have faith in though, is that FFG has so far not really screwed anything up...

Oh, sure they have. The TIE Advanced leaps immediately to mind, for me.

What I have faith in is their ability to recognize their mistakes when they do happen, and to learn from them. The game isn't perfect, but it is always getting better, and it's being run by people who like the game, understand the game, and clearly geek out over Star Wars.

Oh, sure they have. The TIE Advanced leaps immediately to mind, for me.

Ok fair enough. But I forgive them on that one because it was clear the game has become more then originally intended.

I'll also grant that ships like the E-Wing and Scyk have issues. But typically their biggest mistakes have been ships that cost too much, not putting something in that is OP'ed to the point that it makes anything else worthless. Like you see in 40k so often. Edit:I'm sure some will point to the Phantom, but that was fixed and wasn't nearly as bad as some believed it was.

So no matter what they do with the new X-Wing and Tie Fighter, I don't believe I'll need to buy 4-6 of each and put my existing X-Wing and Tie fighter stuff away because I'll never use it again.

I really hope this opens the door for prequel ships. Assuming there are actually new factions involved, and the timeline is greatly expanded, no reason not two. Just add two more factions - republic and confederacy.

I really hope this opens the door for prequel ships.

FFG has said a number of times that there will be no prequel ships in this game. So no jedi fighters, no N1's, no droid fighters, ect... It will not happen.

Assuming there are actually new factions involved

Without discussing things that should not be discussed... There will be no new factions added to the game for Eps7

Actually the F15 basic frame is almost 40 years old. 1976 to 2015 is 39.

D'oh! Not really sure how I made that math error

My point still stands though

Question though...

How will the setting of the game fit lorewise? Eg: A palpmobile against a mini squadron on T-70 X wings.

How the Hell is the Emperor able to face these ships that had just existed after his death?

•~•`

Question though...

How will the setting of the game fit lorewise? Eg: A palpmobile against a mini squadron on T-70 X wings.

How the Hell is the Emperor able to face these ships that had just existed after his death?

•~•`

How can the inquisitor fight a squad of e wings protected by Biggs? How can captain Antilles crew a cr 90 being attacked by tie defenders?

It's a game. If you want temporally thematic lists, make them, otherwise don't worry about it.

All this talk of hypothetical "X-wing 2.0" sounds very stupid in my opinion. Your going to shelve 6 years worth of ships, upgrades, and fixes for a whole new system? I think not.

Honestly, I think all the 2.0 talk comes from GW related trauma.

Question though...

How will the setting of the game fit lorewise? Eg: A palpmobile against a mini squadron on T-70 X wings.

How the Hell is the Emperor able to face these ships that had just existed after his death?

•~•`

Three: power creep is real, and the waves system also seems to express the forward movement of time. Wave 1 ships don't always fare well against decimators, dashes, iggies, etc. Hence we're not really talking about long periods of time between production, but the slow incremental improvement of fighter design. Refits, titles, etc also represent the re-tooling of older designs to keep them competetive. Short answer, I think the ships spanning 30 years is fine.

Now the pilots ... well, thats a little more chronologically torturous

Wave 1 ships have tend to do well. Biggs an X-wing did great up until wave 5, however in Wave 6 we got a boost for Y-wings and now I see them on the table every week. Raider brought out stuff for TIE advances so plenty of Wave 1 stuff there.

Biggs is still very viable. In fact I think he more viable now than before. He's not seen as much these days so people forget about his ability. Last game I played someone TL'd corran hoping to hit him with cluster missiles only to be informed to his dismay "oh look Biggs is in arc and at range 1 of corran, so guess who you are shooting at range three through a rock with your primary weapon?" He completely forgot what Biggs did because most metagame builds don't use him these days.

All this talk of hypothetical "X-wing 2.0" sounds very stupid in my opinion. Your going to shelve 6 years worth of ships, upgrades, and fixes for a whole new system? I think not.

Honestly, I think all the 2.0 talk comes from GW related trauma.

Well you have two options: Continuous "fix" upgrades as power creep pushes ships out of the game, or the occasional cost reboot to keep everything right.

Fixes work way better than shelving the old stuff.

Those players you just got into the game last week? They have to buy a new core!

The Triple Defender list you love running? Useless!

That raider/K-wing/Hound's tooth your waiting for/have? Not in this new game!

Wave 8? ....

I just don't see it. FFG is not GW.

All this talk of hypothetical "X-wing 2.0" sounds very stupid in my opinion. Your going to shelve 6 years worth of ships, upgrades, and fixes for a whole new system? I think not.

Honestly, I think all the 2.0 talk comes from GW related trauma.

Well you have two options: Continuous "fix" upgrades as power creep pushes ships out of the game, or the occasional cost reboot to keep everything right.

Fixes work way better than shelving the old stuff.

Those players you just got into the game last week? They have to buy a new core!

The Triple Defender list you love running? Useless!

That raider/K-wing/Hound's tooth your waiting for/have? Not in this new game!

Wave 8? ....

I just don't see it. FFG is not GW.

A 2.0 does not mean ships become forbidden. They'd get new cards, but the model itself will still be usable in the game. I've referenced it often, but Warmachine/Hordes went through a great 2.0 transition via card decks for each faction and a new rulebook. All told, it costed around $35+$10 per additional faction. No model was ever made illegal, and people continued to play throughout the entire process. Privateer Press managed to do this in a game which featured 10+ factions, re-balance the game, and its only grown more popular since. I think FFG is capable of handling a 2.0 with only

A 2.0 does not mean ships become forbidden. They'd get new cards,

Not necessarily even that. I posted in another thread, but I think it got nuked, a second edition could fiddle with the rules to fix a bunch of stuff and leave the cards strictly alone.

Fix the combat sequence so turrets actually function within the rules

Fix the activation sequence so night beast and similar things make sense

Fix timing issues surrounding conners net

Integrate all the new rules (boost, cloak, s-loop, bombs, slam)

Integrate the change to large ship barrel rolls

Fix large ship boosts

Fix ordnance so it works better (by making it so tokens spent to fire them also modify them)

I had a bunch of other stuff in the other list, but that is what I can recall now.

A game like this gradually adds more and more stuff, making it harder and harder for players to keep track of it all. A second edition is actually badly needed at this point to smooth out all the accumulated rules detritus.

A 2.0 does not mean ships become forbidden. They'd get new cards,

Not necessarily even that. I posted in another thread, but I think it got nuked, a second edition could fiddle with the rules to fix a bunch of stuff and leave the cards strictly alone.

I'd be fine with that, but there are more than a few pilots that need adjusted point-costs and/or abilities. And for Emperor's sake, someone please give the Space Cow a white 3-turn.

Forgottenlore, on 18 Aug 2015 - 6:11 PM, said:Forgottenlore, on 18 Aug 2015 - 6:11 PM, said:Forgottenlore, on 18 Aug 2015 - 6:11 PM, said:

Stilgod, on 18 Aug 2015 - 6:00 PM, said:Stilgod, on 18 Aug 2015 - 6:00 PM, said:Stilgod, on 18 Aug 2015 - 6:00 PM, said:

A 2.0 does not mean ships become forbidden. They'd get new cards,

Not necessarily even that. I posted in another thread, but I think it got nuked, a second edition could fiddle with the rules to fix a bunch of stuff and leave the cards strictly alone.

Fix the combat sequence so turrets actually function within the rules

Fix the activation sequence so night beast and similar things make sense

Fix timing issues surrounding conners net

Integrate all the new rules (boost, cloak, s-loop, bombs, slam)

Integrate the change to large ship barrel rolls

Fix large ship boosts

Fix ordnance so it works better (by making it so tokens spent to fire them also modify them)

I had a bunch of other stuff in the other list, but that is what I can recall now.

A game like this gradually adds more and more stuff, making it harder and harder for players to keep track of it all. A second edition is actually badly needed at this point to smooth out all the accumulated rules detritus.

The 2nd edition could come with new core and clear up a load of issues.

Forbidding large ships from boosting seems unnecessary.

What do you mean by "Fix the combat sequence so turrets actually function within the rules"? The turrets do function within the current rule set.

My guess is the new core brings new crit deck, consolidated rules, and hopefully the much needed munitions changes.

all the core is bringing is the templates, dice, and tokens you need to play the game plus 1 resistance and 2 first order ships, hypothetically

after that, it's all hoping they hypothetically bring hypothetical titles that are relevant to the first coreset ship-types, one of which is in need of assistance (and that is not a hypothetical)

an errata to all offensive upgrades to mandate the defender being in arc would be nice, though

Forbidding large ships from boosting seems unnecessary.

What do you mean by "Fix the combat sequence so turrets actually function within the rules"? The turrets do function within the current rule set.

I didn't say forbid large ship boosts, just figure out a way to fix them like they did with barrel rolls. As it stands, large ships with boost are way faster and arc dodgey than I think the designers intended. There have already been many threads on the subject of reigning in large ship boosts.

No, actually, turrets don't work within the current rules. At least, secondary weapon turrets. They can only be used because we all know how they are supposed to function, but the actual combat sequence says that you have to pick a target within your firing arc -before- you decide what weapon your attacking with. The turret's special rule doesn't have an effect until after you have chosen a target. It creates a paradox. Like I said, "everyone knows" how they are supposed to work, but the fact that the rules don't support it creates all sorts of weird corner cases and confusing interactions.

If your really interested in a list of the rule's shortcomings, you can ask Buhallin. I'm sure he would be happy to rant about it some more. Me, I'm happy to recognize a rules problem like that and then ignore it and play RAI, but he seems to think it makes the entire game unplayable.

Ok thanks got it.

I'm all for clear and concise rules everyone can understand.

I welcome the rules revisions, consolidation and clarification as well.

All this talk of hypothetical "X-wing 2.0" sounds very stupid in my opinion. Your going to shelve 6 years worth of ships, upgrades, and fixes for a whole new system? I think not.

Honestly, I think all the 2.0 talk comes from GW related trauma.

Well you have two options: Continuous "fix" upgrades as power creep pushes ships out of the game, or the occasional cost reboot to keep everything right.

You're completely right about power creep. I only lose about 50% of games to well-flown TIE swarms, especially pure Wave 1 swarms with Howlrunner. You almost never see Wave 2 ships, either, except for Interceptors and Firesprays and the Millennium Falcon. And Wave 3 is almost entirely gone from the game, except that people run B-wings a lot, and the Shuttle is perennially popular with people who like to experiment, and Bombers are a great way to take advantage of new changes to ordnance.

So yeah, no flaws in assertions about power creep in X-wing at all.

I hope they don't include them in X-Wing and instead release a second game. X-Wing 2, with new factions and tweaked rules. It would also open the doors for an X-Wing 3 set in the prequel era, to satisfy the few players that want that.

Not many people think like you.

Making a new game while they are still releasing new stuff for the old one? How nuts is that?

I want ships fully backward compatible.

I want an updated manual with all the rules added along the expansions and a new damage deck (or at least some new damage cards) - these would came nicely in a new core set (think about Zombicide season 1, 2,3...).

I want the T-70 to be called X-Wing, so the title card will work for both models and makes the old T-60 X-Wing more viable in tournaments.

I want the ships from the new trilogy (and spin offs) to add to the game, and not to replace existing ones.

And I want my freakin Assault Gunboat, TIE Avenger and TIE Hunter.

PS: frack the prequel.

I am wondering, but have not seen this directly discussed...if FFG creates ships from the new movies for the Flight Path system, will it all be in the same game as X-Wing? Since Ep. VII is 30 years later, will the tech advances and timing make the ships mutually exclusive? It seems to me like they would--it would be like putting modern jet fighters up against WWII anes, not to mention the named pilots would be out of their own times.

But then again, I have always been more concerned with the "story" atmosphere of the game. Maybe most people don't really care that much? Or will it be the same game, but with rules saying which ships belong to which era, along with rules for introducing vintage/salvaged old ships?

I know nobody knows, just wondering g if people are speculating.

F-15s are 30 years old!! just saying... granted they have been updated and are slightly different from the older F-15A's we now have F-15cs and Es.. F-4s went all the way from F-4A to S.. B-52 first flight was in 1952!! and its still in the Airforce!!

Guys, F-15s are older. They first flew in 1972 (43 years) and entered service in 1976 (39 years).

So yeah, no flaws in assertions about power creep in X-wing at all.

Actually, there is power creep in this game. Just not the kind that we gamers generally think of.

Traditionally, power creep means that each successive release is more powerful than the previous one and so (not so) gradually obsoletes the older stuff, forcing customers to buy the new stuff just to keep up.

But there is another kind of power creep. The nature of x-wings releases, with upgrade cards and pilot abilities and the like, means that it is virtually impossible to reduce the power of something once it has been released. That is partly why the cloaking nerf and change to large ship barrel rolls were so noteworthy, because it is so rare for that to happen. All that new releases for this game can do is either maintain power level, or increase it. Now, FFG does a great job maintaining a stable level, but mistakes happen and once in a while something too powerful slips through. When that happens, all they can really do is increase the power level of everything else to match. That's also power creep, and we can see it happening in things like autothrusters. The overall power level of the game is increasing. Now, that isn't too bad as long as it is controlled and remains reasonably balanced, but any rules system can only scale up so far before it breaks. Before that happens, a game needs a major reworking to, basically, reset the power level back to a manageable point. I don't think x-wing is even close to being there yet, but it is a factor that should be kept in mind.