I've been playing X-Wing for about a year now. My FLGS has a Friday Night X-Wing where we play every other weekend. Every now and again, the store itself hosts an official event like the Spring/Summer tournaments, Store tournaments, etc. Friday nights are usually 3 rounds. IIRC, the Store tournament was 5 rounds. Today, we played for the Summer kit. At the moment, Friday night X-Wing games run from 6pm to around 9-10pm. The one we had today ran from 11am to around 5pm. The Store tournament was an all-day event, I think we started around 10am and finished around 6 or 7pm.

I've played in a couple of Armada tournaments as well. The first one was at 180 points, then 3 at 300 points. All games had 3 rounds.

Maybe it's too early to tell, maybe I'll change my mind once Wave 2 comes out and we are playing with 400 points and 2.5hrs per round, but at the moment, I find a full day of Armada LESS stressful than an evening of X-Wing. Maybe because in less than 2 rounds of Armada, I could've played 3-4 rounds of X-Wing? I've heard of player complain about how beat up they would be if they were to play a 3-round tournament of Armada, but so far I've enjoyed all my games and have felt less stressed. Compare that to 4 rounds of X-Wing I played today. It was 75 minutes per round so slightly longer than our usual 60-minute/round, but I came home with a stiff neck, tired back, and my brain feels like it's about to explode.

Anyone else feel like Armada is less stressful to play than X-Wing? Is it the time factor --- longer rounds (plus max 6 turns) means you can spend more time to think about your moves whereas X-Wing is much faster-paced? Is it the game mechanic factor --- being able to pre-measure at any time in Armada takes a lot of the guesswork I have to do in X-Wing?

Because of coming home in such a tired state, I'm thinking of putting up my X-Wing stuff for sale to pick up more Armada stuff.

3 rounds are nice to play in. The people I play against are all great players so I end up with these huge emotional ups and downs in a game due to being able to read the board state. I love it but I am drained. I can do 5 rounds but more then that against the people I play against. . . Yea. . . I would be an emotional mess.

I'm thinking part of it might be the fact that Armada has fewer decisions to make. You have to select which command dial you're going to put at the bottom of your stack, but the pressure of that choice isn't on you immediately. You get the command dial from your previous decision to use this turn, so there's a bit of a "Oh well, this is what I picked" thing if it's bad, or if it's good... well, that's good. Selecting your course is usually very simple: you have a limited number of options, and sometimes those options aren't really options at all (piloting a Victory, for instance, you're not going to turn away from the bulk of your enemy's ships and expose your rear to them, so that removes half of your options). Selecting targets for shooting also tends to be fairly straightforward; you're rarely offered multiple targets, and when you are, there's usually an obvious choice.

Compare this to X-Wing, where you have about the same number of decisions to make, but far more options, usually, with each decision, and you get the feedback from those decisions immediately, which gives you no time between the stress of making a decision, and the stress of having made the wrong one (which doesn't always happens, but nobody is perfect).

I wouldn't necessarily say that the time itself is the thing that makes Armada seem "slower", but for the above reasons, it does feel less intense.

I'm in the same boat Intys mate. I hadn't really noticed it until you mentioned it, but there's a lot to be said about it. I think you nailed it, the games' pace is a major factor.

I find X-wing is really hectic. In the same 60-75 minutes I'm always busy, I'm always on my feet, and I'm always having to deal with shifting mental gears in order to make sure my fighters aren't getting blown to pieces. That, and there's more of a dice element which feels like it takes away my control on another level. When I win in Armada, it's usually because I played well and made the right choices, not just the right guesses.

Maybe it's just the 6 turn thing puts me at a place where I can feel like I measure my games on some mental timeline which makes it feel like its progressing in a linear and determined fashion. X-wing feels like it could go on forever, -smirks and snarks- a few other games feel like they have gone on forever, but Armada has always felt fluid as far as time goes. Armada is structured, and like you said, you can take a bit of time to think and plan ahead (could the command delay mechanic be encouraging that slower and pensive pace?) but it all takes place in a fairly reactive environment where you're often engaged but rarely rushed. .

I think you're quite right: maybe it'll change in wave 2, or 3, or 5, but I have a feeling that would be because of the upgrades or something else added after the fact. Right now it's almost serene at times. Compared to X-wing, (or the few other games I play) I don't have that tired neck, tensed jaw muscles, and throbbing headache that usually comes with multiple games in a row. X-wing has been a fun casual game to play, but playing multiple rounds with that same competitive pace feels exhausting. I'm not sure I can deal with event X-wing games, as much as I actually enjoy it. Casual only territory.

As a full caveat, I play leagues and I play campaigns, I don't play tournament games.... However, I play people who participate in tournament rounds, which has resulted in the exact same sensation. All this leads me to wonder, why don't I play tournament games? Greaaaat.

I can't believe I forgot to mention the thing that stresses me out the most in X-Wing.... rolling green dice! I love flying Interceptors (did anything give that away?) and Phantoms, and I've rolled so many blanks it's not funny anymore.

I'm glad there's AT LEAST one more person that gets the neck/jaw/head pain that I'm experiencing, so I'm not alone in this! One of the guys that placed highly on Regionals said he was so spent after the first day, he was actually glad he didn't make the top cut that had to play again the next day.

Interceptors, eh? Yep, same thing here. Everything going well, then one little thing and 'poof' all blanks. It's nothing I did, it was a lucky shot followed by my usually predictably bad result at anything dice roll related to defence. I have no control over those dice, and positioning is harder given the amount of turrets and smaller play space.

Armada has its defence tokens and engineering to mitigate some of those wild hot-streaks. So, if you can plan your shots and your angles in how to engage then disengage using objects or other ships, it buys you some leeway. It's not going to protect you completely, but it's helped far more than the wild-wacky green dice ever did.

I thought it might just be me with those physical signs so I never said much. I was hoping it wasn't signs of some impending 'acute gaming burnout syndrome'. I mean, it shouldn't do that to me physically but it does. More over, it's mentally draining. Now that I think about it, I get this way in games with more 'wacky dice rolls' with less control andmore 'stuff'.

Hmm, that is a weird paradox isn't it? You want to win in a tournament, but actually having to do two days of that feels like it would be distasteful. Ugh, maybe that's a saving grace of not playing tournament style gaming and just doing the 6-8 hours.

I find that Armada works out almost entirely different mental muscle groups than X-Wing.

After an evening of Armada I may feel mentally exhausted, but I am also generally more content and less scattered. As others have said I think this is due to the pace of the game.

I have a good group of players locally that makes for some really tight games, with each round taking a great deal of consideration, but the number of times I have to actually lean over the table and maneuver little plastic bases around is greatly reduced, and the fact that the EXACT positioning is less subject to accidental bumping is a weight off my shoulders as well.

Overall, I am finding that I enjoy Armada more as a game.

When I come away from X-Wing I always have the strong feeling that the dice had more to say about the outcome than the players did. Seems like every time I leave a game of Armada, the player with the better plan is the one that comes away victorious. Victories (and losses) both feel more earned.

I find that Armada works out almost entirely different mental muscle groups than X-Wing.

After an evening of Armada I may feel mentally exhausted, but I am also generally more content and less scattered. As others have said I think this is due to the pace of the game.

I have a good group of players locally that makes for some really tight games, with each round taking a great deal of consideration, but the number of times I have to actually lean over the table and maneuver little plastic bases around is greatly reduced, and the fact that the EXACT positioning is less subject to accidental bumping is a weight off my shoulders as well.

Overall, I am finding that I enjoy Armada more as a game.

When I come away from X-Wing I always have the strong feeling that the dice had more to say about the outcome than the players did. Seems like every time I leave a game of Armada, the player with the better plan is the one that comes away victorious. Victories (and losses) both feel more earned.

This game is a roller coaster but one I will ride over and over.

It also helps that the community is usually very nice.

Not really sure why you find X-wing games so stressful. Is it the pressure of playing with a short time limit? I just play with my girlfriend at home and we don't really put a time limit on the games (though we stop after ~1.5hrs), so it's really nice and relaxed.

Not really sure why you find X-wing games so stressful. Is it the pressure of playing with a short time limit? I just play with my girlfriend at home and we don't really put a time limit on the games (though we stop after ~1.5hrs), so it's really nice and relaxed.

Its the difference between Casual and Tournament Scenes...

At home, with a common opponent, with nothing but 'bragging rights' on the line, in a familiar environment... It is very relaxing.

Throw in Uncommon and Unfamiliar opponents, a stressful environment full of angst and concentration, with generally some sort of "tangible thing" on the line for winners......... The entire dynamic changes, and it takes an -exceptionally- laid back person to not be biologically affected by it.

I can't speak for X-Wing in particular, as my experience with X-Wing players has mostly been trying to let convince them to let me borrow a pair of tables in the limited gaming environment so we can actually play Armada... But its something thats fairly common to most Tournament games, full stop.

I agree that X-Wing definitely feels more like a game where the core mechanics pushed it to be about the dice rolls. I have seen many games where people have clearly out-flied their opponent the whole game, only to lose as their dice go cold, and their foes go red hot. I've also seen people lose games where they flew horribly, and blamed it on bad dice.

Armada feels different. You feel like the only reason that you are in a situation where the dice can turn on you is because you brought it about. Getting smashed by double arc GSD? You're the one that moved your ships to that point. Close range against a VSD? That thing moves slow, you should have known better. Cloud of B-Wings wrecking you? Whelp, shouldn't have gotten that close without fighter cover.

Plus, while it is early, there is no "whelp, nothing I can do about that" ships. No PS9 phantoms, No double droid Hans.

One of the differences between X-Wing and Armada is that Armada is in a way more forgiving.

In X-Wing if you misjudge where the other guy is going you may not get a shot because you missed by a MM or so. Worse you may decide to barrel roll and find not only did you take yourself out of arc, you put yourself in the arc of two other ships.

But in Armada (pre measuring aside) You'll be hard pressed to put yourself in a spot where one of your ships can do nothing. You may not be in a great position, you may find yourself both taking more fire, and giving less then you wanted. But you can at least do something.

Also you have defensive tokens so you know exactly what you can do defensively every time, opposed to rolling green dice and hoping they don't screw you over again.

I agree that X-Wing definitely feels more like a game where the core mechanics pushed it to be about the dice rolls. I have seen many games where people have clearly out-flied their opponent the whole game, only to lose as their dice go cold, and their foes go red hot. I've also seen people lose games where they flew horribly, and blamed it on bad dice.

Armada feels different. You feel like the only reason that you are in a situation where the dice can turn on you is because you brought it about. Getting smashed by double arc GSD? You're the one that moved your ships to that point. Close range against a VSD? That thing moves slow, you should have known better. Cloud of B-Wings wrecking you? Whelp, shouldn't have gotten that close without fighter cover.

Plus, while it is early, there is no "whelp, nothing I can do about that" ships. No PS9 phantoms, No double droid Hans.

One of the differences between X-Wing and Armada is that Armada is in a way more forgiving.

In X-Wing if you misjudge where the other guy is going you may not get a shot because you missed by a MM or so. Worse you may decide to barrel roll and find not only did you take yourself out of arc, you put yourself in the arc of two other ships.

But in Armada (pre measuring aside) You'll be hard pressed to put yourself in a spot where one of your ships can do nothing. You may not be in a great position, you may find yourself both taking more fire, and giving less then you wanted. But you can at least do something.

Also you have defensive tokens so you know exactly what you can do defensively every time, opposed to rolling green dice and hoping they don't screw you over again.

You're both right. X-wing is much more forgiving for lesser skilled players, as the dice might save you. Armada is brutal if you're inexperienced; spend that defense/command token at the wrong time or if you're speed is 1 higher/lower than it should be, you can lose the game.

However, X-wing is brutal with poor positioning as measurements are quite precise. Flying your ships sloppily nets you one or more rounds of inactivity if you cannot get arcs, or incoming damage from asteroids or enemy fighters. Armada is much more forgiving with positioning because it NEEDS to be. I can't get through a single round of Armada without knocking something a few millimetres. With health being tracked on the ships and squadrons themselves, it's inevitable that you inadvertently poke something out of position. This is why the rules are so lax for squadron movement and bumps.

One of the differences between X-Wing and Armada is that Armada is in a way more forgiving.

In X-Wing if you misjudge where the other guy is going you may not get a shot because you missed by a MM or so. Worse you may decide to barrel roll and find not only did you take yourself out of arc, you put yourself in the arc of two other ships.

But in Armada (pre measuring aside) You'll be hard pressed to put yourself in a spot where one of your ships can do nothing. You may not be in a great position, you may find yourself both taking more fire, and giving less then you wanted. But you can at least do something.

Also you have defensive tokens so you know exactly what you can do defensively every time, opposed to rolling green dice and hoping they don't screw you over again.

It's important to note that Armada and X-Wing are remarkably different games, each testing almost completely different levels of awareness and reactivity.

In X-Wing you're expected to take each turn anew, issuing commands for the coming round. Sure, the best players are considering what's going to happen multiple turns ahead, but it's far from exact or restrictive, and it's perfectly possible to be victorious without a comprehensive full-game plan. In Armada you have to split your consideration of the next turn (for low command ships) with consideration for multiple turns ahead as a matter of standard (non-advanced) gameplay. You simply CANNOT get the upper hand until you've begun to not only command but even deploy your ships with consideration for exactly where you want to be and, arguably more importantly, where you expect your opponent to be well into the game.

I would argue that this very dynamic makes Armada significantly LESS forgiving than X-Wing, since the dice cannot save you from making a poor decision on turn one that lands you in a poor arrangement on turn three. You can be utterly obliterated because you failed to read your opponent three turns ago.

But while being less forgiving, it also allows you more control over said engagement. If you wind up in that poor position, it's not due to any vagary of the dice gods, but entirely due to your own poor planning. Similarly, the best dice rolls are the ones where a player has built a synergy allowing him to exercise control over what results he can get reliably. (Thus the popularity of Screed + ACM, and my personal favorite Dominator + XI7 Turbolaser, NEITHER of which can possibly shine unless they are ideally positioned first)

Again, the reason I like Armada more is that the outcome of the game is firmly in the hands of the players, but this by definition makes the game less forgiving of mistakes. I mean sure you CAN get a red die attack out of the back arc of the VSD you placed poorly, but it's not going to save you when you've exposed your 1-shield rear to a lance of Neb-Bs. The player with the better plan almost always walks away victorious.

I would argue that this very dynamic makes Armada significantly LESS forgiving than X-Wing

Perhaps it may be best to say X-Wing is more giving on a "strategic" level, and Armada is more forging on a "tactical" one. I'm sure that will get some peoples shorts in a bunch, so I'm using "s for a reason.

In Armada you have to have a good game plan, and are going to be plotting it out a turn or three in advance. So a bad plan or lack of one can mean you've lost before the first command is set or die is rolled.

X-Wing on the other hand is much more reactive. Sure you can have a plan, but your plan is limited to how well you can guess what the other guy will do, and how well your die roll.

So Armada can be more forgiving in any one turn, because even if you're slightly out of position you still have options. You'll still be able to fire on something and you'll have your defense tokens to mitigate the damage done to you.

X-Wing on the other hand, if you're even only slightly out of position you can be stuck in a spot where the dice and odds are not in your favor and all you can hope for is to roll really well.

I would argue that this very dynamic makes Armada significantly LESS forgiving than X-Wing

Perhaps it may be best to say X-Wing is more giving on a "strategic" level, and Armada is more forging on a "tactical" one. I'm sure that will get some peoples shorts in a bunch, so I'm using "s for a reason.

In Armada you have to have a good game plan, and are going to be plotting it out a turn or three in advance. So a bad plan or lack of one can mean you've lost before the first command is set or die is rolled.

X-Wing on the other hand is much more reactive. Sure you can have a plan, but your plan is limited to how well you can guess what the other guy will do, and how well your die roll.

So Armada can be more forgiving in any one turn, because even if you're slightly out of position you still have options. You'll still be able to fire on something and you'll have your defense tokens to mitigate the damage done to you.

X-Wing on the other hand, if you're even only slightly out of position you can be stuck in a spot where the dice and odds are not in your favor and all you can hope for is to roll really well.

I see your point.

Very true, in that Armada is more forgiving of the little details, the bumps, the precise positioning, and even the die rolls in some cases. The tiny measurements very rarely impact the game all that much, and a ship getting bumped a bit out of position just doesn't bother me in Armada because it won't affect the outcome like it would in X-Wing.

Of course, on the other side of that coin, it is far less forgiving on the grand strategic scale.

I believe it's fair to say that X-wing is more tactical where Armada is more strategic, pedants be damned.

As to the "which is more forgiving" aspect, I see it like this:

If you miss-deploy badly in Armada, you essentially have lost the game or have a massive uphill battle. If you do the same in X-Wing you're fine; it just takes a few slow-roll early moves to make something useable.

So this speaks to the "tactical" vs "strategic" arguments towards the games imo.

My primary thing is that Armada is a game you can actually plan, play well, predict, and win due to your own abilities nearly every-single-game. X-Wing you cannot. It's a little more like Poker. The best players obviously end up at the high-tables consistently, but the bottom line is that you can play well and still lose a game of X-Wing solely due to dice (RNG). Armada doesn't really have that, sure you can have really really hot dice for attacks that help win, but it's no where near the influence on the game as joint red+green dice vs attack dice+defense tokens.

I'd feel stress playing armada, but there are no official armada tokens to represent how I feel...

I agree that X-Wing definitely feels more like a game where the core mechanics pushed it to be about the dice rolls. I have seen many games where people have clearly out-flied their opponent the whole game, only to lose as their dice go cold, and their foes go red hot. I've also seen people lose games where they flew horribly, and blamed it on bad dice.

Armada feels different. You feel like the only reason that you are in a situation where the dice can turn on you is because you brought it about. Getting smashed by double arc GSD? You're the one that moved your ships to that point. Close range against a VSD? That thing moves slow, you should have known better. Cloud of B-Wings wrecking you? Whelp, shouldn't have gotten that close without fighter cover.

Plus, while it is early, there is no "whelp, nothing I can do about that" ships. No PS9 phantoms, No double droid Hans.

Quoted for truth.

Everytime I lose in Armada I know it was what I did that got me. My Tactics failed, my targets of priority failed. Something tangible failed. I think only 1 time can I think I failed due to dice rolls maybe twice. Easy knows the feeling where a Salvation with CF rolls all blanks. . . Had it happen to me in a game, and the same ship rolled 3 blanks as an accuracy. . . I about cried then. . .

The only times I can remember the outcome of an Armada match coming down to strictly the dice have been games where myself and my opponent each played remarkably well, punishing one another for every mistake with no easy victor emerging until the final turn.

These games, I don't mind so much being decided by the Dice Gods, long may they yet reign.

It's not fair to say that X-wing involves less skill or strategic planning than Armada. Does it inherently have more RNG? Well yes, but the whole purpose of the game is to minimise the random elements and a whole meta-game is birthed from this challenging aspect.

It's not fair to say that X-wing involves less skill or strategic planning than Armada. Does it inherently have more RNG? Well yes, but the whole purpose of the game is to minimise the random elements and a whole meta-game is birthed from this challenging aspect.

Do you still regularly play Armada, because you seem convinced X-Wing is better

It's not fair to say that X-wing involves less skill or strategic planning than Armada. Does it inherently have more RNG? Well yes, but the whole purpose of the game is to minimise the random elements and a whole meta-game is birthed from this challenging aspect.

Do you still regularly play Armada, because you seem convinced X-Wing is better

I do regularly play Armada. I never said that X-wing was better or worse than Armada, however there are gameplay mechanics in both that I'm not terribly fond of.

I don't see a problem with expressing my concerns or providing critical feedback on a product that I bought, especially one that I passionately enjoy and wish to see improved.

Not really sure why you find X-wing games so stressful. Is it the pressure of playing with a short time limit? I just play with my girlfriend at home and we don't really put a time limit on the games (though we stop after ~1.5hrs), so it's really nice and relaxed.

Yeah, playing at home with a friend or playing with no time limits or no prize, that's fine. Playing on a casual tournament, even if the prize is just "to be #1," is much more stressful. Plus, on a home game, you can alter your lists, play with something else, etc. In a tournament, you're stuck with what you've brought to the table. In our Store tournament, I decided to metagame a bit and brought 2 Academies hoping to use them as blockers. I've never done this before; I usually play high PS builds. I ended up playing with the Academies for most of the game as my named pilots got shot and this was not how I wanted to play the game. Next tournament, I brought back my staple lists and had more fun, win or lose, because I was flying what I wanted to fly.

I agree that X-Wing definitely feels more like a game where the core mechanics pushed it to be about the dice rolls. I have seen many games where people have clearly out-flied their opponent the whole game, only to lose as their dice go cold, and their foes go red hot. I've also seen people lose games where they flew horribly, and blamed it on bad dice.

Like I said, cloaked Phantom, Range 3, through an asteroid. Rolled 6 blanks. Not fun. I'd rather lose due to poor decisions and bad flying. Losing a ship that is at the best possible placement is not fun.

I do think it is the lack of green dice that helps me appreciate Armada more. Sure, I know where my ships will end up. I can guess where his ships will end up. With that info, I can anticipate what shots my guys will take this round and next round. I can then take THAT and compare it to my defense tokens and ship's overall health to guess the chances of survivability.

Giving the Gladiator commander the go ahead to close in and engage is a very important call in this game. Time it wrongly and he'll eat too much enemy fire and die before he can do too much damage. Time it too late and he'll end up having to chase his target around the board doing little damage. Time it perfectly, hopefully with another Gladiator closing in, and the carnage is beautiful. How much damage do they suffer in return? I can more-or-less anticipate that, with the difference being only due to the level of success of the opponent's roll.

I am in control of my positioning, my shooting, and my defense. Less RNG and more strategic positioning, activation, and card synergy.