It is a little under-explained though in the rulebook for the Raider, And the CR90 isn't the best example.

The SHIP has 4 primary attack. And has 3 firing arcs. Unlike the CR90, the arcs on it's rear are not any different to the arcs on it'd fore. They, in terms of the game mechanics, are all primary arcs. Not auxiliary.

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

We all assume that it is probably just from the fore section, but as it's not explicitly stated either way in the rules, we just want FFG to say so.

I've not played much epic, so I don't want to be over-using OR under-using my Raider.

It's pretty obvious that if the Raider could fire from any arc that would just seem broken

That's not obvious at all.

What's obvious is that the wording is ambiguous.

I look forward to hearing FFG's word on the matter. It could honestly go either way, but personally I think it'd be pretty crappy to have a 100 pt ship with the maneuverability of a sea cucumber that can only fire in one direction unless you upgrade it.

A naked raider is essentially defenseless against small ships in that case and that, to me, is what seems obviously broken or, at the very least, VERY incongruous with the stated purpose of the ship being a nimble anti-fighter platform.

A naked raider is essentially defenseless against small ships in that case and that, to me, is what seems obviously broken or, at the very least, VERY incongruous with the stated purpose of the ship being a nimble anti-fighter platform.

Would you really run a Raider naked, though?

Even if you did, you would still have 200 points to spend on your own small ships - that's a far cry from being left defenseless.

A naked raider is essentially defenseless against small ships in that case and that, to me, is what seems obviously broken or, at the very least, VERY incongruous with the stated purpose of the ship being a nimble anti-fighter platform.

Would you really run a Raider naked, though?

Even if you did, you would still have 200 points to spend on your own small ships - that's a far cry from being left defenseless.

I admit my interpretation may be somewhat colored by impending participation in a 200 pt "Epic" tourney at an FLGS tomorrow. The restricted points have me scratching my head at a reasonable list that can take on the inevitable 200 pt small ship lists.

My poor, nearly naked raider is going to be picked apart, and this interpretation would effectively mean that I either HAVE to purchase a secondary for the aft, or simply have the aft section be functionally defenseless. Circumstance aside, I feel like that can't be right, and I certainly can't find any official wording that supports it.

A naked raider is essentially defenseless against small ships in that case and that, to me, is what seems obviously broken or, at the very least, VERY incongruous with the stated purpose of the ship being a nimble anti-fighter platform.

Would you really run a Raider naked, though?

Even if you did, you would still have 200 points to spend on your own small ships - that's a far cry from being left defenseless.

I admit my interpretation may be somewhat colored by impending participation in a 200 pt "Epic" tourney at an FLGS tomorrow. The restricted points have me scratching my head at a reasonable list that can take on the inevitable 200 pt small ship lists.

My poor, nearly naked raider is going to be picked apart, and this interpretation would effectively mean that I either HAVE to purchase a secondary for the aft, or simply have the aft section be functionally defenseless. Circumstance aside, I feel like that can't be right, and I certainly can't find any official wording that supports it.

As it states in the tournament rules epic games are to consist of 300 pts and that is for a good reason which you stated.

If I were you I'd fly small and large ships.

Wouldn't surprise me If others did.

I don't believe huge ships are designed with the idea of flying them naked.

I really don't think there is need to be a ruling.

If the primary could fire from the aft it would be printed on the aft card.

Same reason why energy is not on the front

If you lose your aft section but still have your fore, you'll gain the energy printed on the aft section of the card. Which is why we flip it over.

Same goes for the primary on the front section

If I blow up your fore section with your primary gun, you flip the card over and there ya go

People are way over thinking it, and a very small few are trying to find some sort of rule exploit to benifit them imo

Please for the love of God the people that work for the company are busy enough without people needing to email them about such obvious answers

I could only imagine the conversation between some of the employees at ffg when they receive such emails

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

My poor, nearly naked raider is going to be picked apart, and this interpretation would effectively mean that I either HAVE to purchase a secondary for the aft, or simply have the aft section be functionally defenseless. Circumstance aside, I feel like that can't be right, and I certainly can't find any official wording that supports it.

Same as the CR90, it is defenceless if you don't arm it. The huge ships are designed to have their hardpoints armed (at least two I'd say), otherwise they don't make back their cost in firepower. You're looking at at least 120 for a worthwhile Raider.

A naked Raider is like a naked HWK: just plain daft. Even if it could fire its fore mounted primary from its aft arcs, it still utterly lacks the firepower to make up for its 100 pt cost.

This isn't WH40K, where the rules get wiggly depending on which faction you're using.

There's some interesting language used in https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/8/13/hunt-down-and-destroy-the-rebellion/

With a massive primary weapon that can fire twice each round, and with its ability to unload overwhelming volleys of firepower against foes foolish enough to land in the "sweet spot" where its primary and auxillary firing arcs overlap...

An Auxiliary firing arc is defined in the FAQ (And the Firespray & Hound's Tooth expansions) as having dotted lines and having a 'unique primary weapon icon' printed on the ship token which is entirely not the case on the raider. So what are the arcs on the rear of the raider called? They're clearly not Auxiliary arcs as they don't fulfil any of the requirements in the FAQ, and the Raider rulebook simply calls them 'Firing Arcs'.

Also, they can't be Auxiliary Firing Arcs as you can't shoot secondary weapons out of Auxiliary Firing Arcs and no-one is arguing that is not the case.

I think it's more a case of poor wording on the part of the Raider rules than an intention for the Raider to be able to Primary fire out of all 3 Arcs (Though that would be equivalent to the CR90 having a turret so could well be in the intention), but I think it's clear the rules are ambiguous. It doesn't matter that the Attack is only printed on the fore, that seems to be far more a case for symmetry in only having 4 stats per-card like every other ship rather than an attempt to indicate that the weapon is only on the fore by only printing it there.

It's well worth asking the question, particularly with the really sloppy wording on the Raider rules which imply Fore-mounted secondary weapons can fire out of the rear arcs...

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

Okay, the energy grid is specific to the aft and the weapon system is specific to the fore, but the energy grid can specifically be used by either section, and the weapon system can't?

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does not. Based on that I can easily argue and support that there is no reason to assume the primary CANNOT fire from the "base to which it is not equipped" (particularly considering the fact that we're talking about ONE ship with TWO bases, not two distinct ships, and that a ship can only have ONE primary weapon, so the question of where it's equipped is moot)

Crew accompaniment is optional, and since both sections of a ship get to take actions, it makes sense to divide them up, or they'd quickly start washing eachother out.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

This is the problem, the wording is ambiguous and the application seems arbitrary.

Huge Ship Rules.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/2d/47/2d47a35a-6ec7-4d4b-a262-efacde97dfa3/huge_ship_rules.pdf

Page 2

Turret Primary Weapon

Some huge ships have a primary weapon that is a turret. Thus, the Ship card
will show the turret primary weapon icon, and the ship token
will show a circular red arrow as a reminder.

When that ship attacks with its turret primary weapon, it may target an
enemy ship inside or outside its firing arc, and it measures range
from the corresponding section’s base.

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

Okay, the energy grid is specific to the aft and the weapon system is specific to the fore, but the energy grid can specifically be used by either section, and the weapon system can't?

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does not. Based on that I can easily argue and support that there is no reason to assume the primary CANNOT fire from the "base to which it is not equipped" (particularly considering the fact that we're talking about ONE ship with TWO bases, not two distinct ships, and that a ship can only have ONE primary weapon, so the question of where it's equipped is moot)

Crew accompaniment is optional, and since both sections of a ship get to take actions, it makes sense to divide them up, or they'd quickly start washing eachother out.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

This is the problem, the wording is ambiguous and the application seems arbitrary.

Just stop.

I think your reading way to much into this.

Is it because you want to field the Raider naked in a 200 pt tournament?

Which to me a 200 pt tournament is not enough pts for epic play (their tournament rules even state 300 pts, 400 for team games)

I hope the TO has a better understanding of the rules.

Stop trying to be a rules lawyer and just accept the fact it is what it is.

Maybe ffg didn't feel it needed explaining because it's obvious that the primary fires from the front.

Each section has a role.

The front is its primary. When it is destroyed you flip over the front section card over.

Answer this then

If the front section was destroyed why would the rear section primary be effected if that was the case.

Shouldn't the rear section still be shooting with 4 dice? It was never touched.

Likewise if the back section was destroyed why can't the front still gain the same amount of energy?

Answer is because they are both separated from one another.

The only difference is that both section can equip upgrades that requires energy to be used such as hardpoints

I really hope your not thinking of entering the tournament and try to convince people you can use the primary on the back because it's wrong.

It's sad that people are willing to waste other people time by emailing them about a ridiculous question.

Id rather ffg employees to use their time towards more productive things rather than answering questions that don't need to be answered

I can only imagine the talk around the water cooler.

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

Okay, the energy grid is specific to the aft and the weapon system is specific to the fore, but the energy grid can specifically be used by either section, and the weapon system can't?

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does not. Based on that I can easily argue and support that there is no reason to assume the primary CANNOT fire from the "base to which it is not equipped" (particularly considering the fact that we're talking about ONE ship with TWO bases, not two distinct ships, and that a ship can only have ONE primary weapon, so the question of where it's equipped is moot)

Crew accompaniment is optional, and since both sections of a ship get to take actions, it makes sense to divide them up, or they'd quickly start washing eachother out.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

This is the problem, the wording is ambiguous and the application seems arbitrary.

Just stop.

I think your reading way to much into this.

Is it because you want to field the Raider naked in a 200 pt tournament?

Which to me a 200 pt tournament is not enough pts for epic play (their tournament rules even state 300 pts, 400 for team games)

I hope the TO has a better understanding of the rules.

Stop trying to be a rules lawyer and just accept the fact it is what it is.

Maybe ffg didn't feel it needed explaining because it's obvious that the primary fires from the front.

Each section has a role.

The front is its primary. When it is destroyed you flip over the front section card over.

Answer this then

If the front section was destroyed why would the rear section primary be effected if that was the case.

Shouldn't the rear section still be shooting with 4 dice? It was never touched.

Likewise if the back section was destroyed why can't the front still gain the same amount of energy?

Answer is because they are both separated from one another.

The only difference is that both section can equip upgrades that requires energy to be used such as hardpoints

I really hope your not thinking of entering the tournament and try to convince people you can use the primary on the back because it's wrong.

It's sad that people are willing to waste other people time by emailing them about a ridiculous question.

Id rather ffg employees to use their time towards more productive things rather than answering questions that don't need to be answered

I can only imagine the talk around the water cooler.

I'm asking questions about rules, trying to clarify them in a RULES based subforum, and your condescension is not only inappropriate but rude.

I'm glad you're so confident in your interpretation, but the wording is ambiguous, and while the popular interpretation is most likely correct, questions like this need to be asked. The rule interactions for huge ships are fairly fresh, and not always obvious.

As for me, I have no problem occupying the time of employees whose job it is to write and clarify rules with clarification of poorly written rules.

Page 5 of the "Tantive IV expansion pack" rulebook specifically defines how the PWT of the CR-90 is usable outside of the fore firing arcs, whereas page 5 of the "Imperial Raider expansion pack" rulebook does not have this same distinction. This alone leads me to believe that the Raider's primary weapon is usable only in the front firing arc. Granted, page 5 of the Tantive IV rulebook clearly defines how secondary weapons must be used from the firing arcs corresponding to the section they are on, whereas page 5 of the Imperial Raider rulebook gives only a poorly-worded explanation on the aft secondary weapons. I think this may be an oversight (on both parts) of the Imperial Raider rulebook though, as it doesn't seem to be written very well and does not even include any of the huge ship errata made by FFG.

The Raider still follows the standard rules for all ships. Primary weapons can fire from the firing arc printed at the front of the ships base.

Unless the Raider rules override this the rule still apply.

The Raider still follows the standard rules for all ships. Primary weapons can fire from the firing arc printed at the front of the ships base.

Unless the Raider rules override this the rule still apply. We have plenty other ships with auxiliary firing arcs. Boomerang questions if they can fire primary weapons from those. So why do it for the Raider.

Bad example though, as primary weapons can fire from auxiliary firing arcs.

Yes I realized that when I was finally fully awake. Don't answer queations while sleepy.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

It can be spent by the fore card from the aft card because the rules specifically state it can: any card equipped to a Raider spends the aft card's energy unless the rules specify it must spend energy from itself. That's actually in the rules.

The aft card specifically has an energy plant, the fore section specifically has a primary weapon. You can no more fire the primary from the aft section than you can fire it from a nearby TIE fighter. The Fore Section has its own firing arc, and the aft section has its own firing arc.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

Teams apply a global effect to the ship, not the section. Any Action: crew card's action can only be taken by the section to which it is equipped. Any hardpoint equipped to a ship only fires from the section to which it is equipped.

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does no

Both ships contain Huge Ship rules, and the website has a single FAQ. The rules for both ships are identical.

I'll also point out that the Raider rulebook doesn't state that hardpoints on the fore cannot fire from the aft arcs, it only states that hardpoints on the aft fire from either arc. Your logic for allowing the primary to fire from the aft arcs also allows the fore hardpoints to.

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

Okay, the energy grid is specific to the aft and the weapon system is specific to the fore, but the energy grid can specifically be used by either section, and the weapon system can't?

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does not. Based on that I can easily argue and support that there is no reason to assume the primary CANNOT fire from the "base to which it is not equipped" (particularly considering the fact that we're talking about ONE ship with TWO bases, not two distinct ships, and that a ship can only have ONE primary weapon, so the question of where it's equipped is moot)

Crew accompaniment is optional, and since both sections of a ship get to take actions, it makes sense to divide them up, or they'd quickly start washing eachother out.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

This is the problem, the wording is ambiguous and the application seems arbitrary.

Just stop.

I think your reading way to much into this.

Is it because you want to field the Raider naked in a 200 pt tournament?

Which to me a 200 pt tournament is not enough pts for epic play (their tournament rules even state 300 pts, 400 for team games)

I hope the TO has a better understanding of the rules.

Stop trying to be a rules lawyer and just accept the fact it is what it is.

Maybe ffg didn't feel it needed explaining because it's obvious that the primary fires from the front.

Each section has a role.

The front is its primary. When it is destroyed you flip over the front section card over.

Answer this then

If the front section was destroyed why would the rear section primary be effected if that was the case.

Shouldn't the rear section still be shooting with 4 dice? It was never touched.

Likewise if the back section was destroyed why can't the front still gain the same amount of energy?

Answer is because they are both separated from one another.

The only difference is that both section can equip upgrades that requires energy to be used such as hardpoints

I really hope your not thinking of entering the tournament and try to convince people you can use the primary on the back because it's wrong.

It's sad that people are willing to waste other people time by emailing them about a ridiculous question.

Id rather ffg employees to use their time towards more productive things rather than answering questions that don't need to be answered

I can only imagine the talk around the water cooler.

I'm asking questions about rules, trying to clarify them in a RULES based subforum, and your condescension is not only inappropriate but rude.

I'm glad you're so confident in your interpretation, but the wording is ambiguous, and while the popular interpretation is most likely correct, questions like this need to be asked. The rule interactions for huge ships are fairly fresh, and not always obvious.

As for me, I have no problem occupying the time of employees whose job it is to write and clarify rules with clarification of poorly written rules.

It's pretty obvious how it works.

You've been given many examples on why and how it works.

I'm not trying to be rude but when you have been told why you basically deny what people here have told ya.

Btw you never answered my question. Im curious how you try to explain that

Your just going to waste someone's time getting a answer many here already told ya.

So you don't deny that your going to try shoot primary from the aft section on your ship?

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

Okay, the energy grid is specific to the aft and the weapon system is specific to the fore, but the energy grid can specifically be used by either section, and the weapon system can't?

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does not. Based on that I can easily argue and support that there is no reason to assume the primary CANNOT fire from the "base to which it is not equipped" (particularly considering the fact that we're talking about ONE ship with TWO bases, not two distinct ships, and that a ship can only have ONE primary weapon, so the question of where it's equipped is moot)

Crew accompaniment is optional, and since both sections of a ship get to take actions, it makes sense to divide them up, or they'd quickly start washing eachother out.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

This is the problem, the wording is ambiguous and the application seems arbitrary.

Just stop.

I think your reading way to much into this.

Is it because you want to field the Raider naked in a 200 pt tournament?

Which to me a 200 pt tournament is not enough pts for epic play (their tournament rules even state 300 pts, 400 for team games)

I hope the TO has a better understanding of the rules.

Stop trying to be a rules lawyer and just accept the fact it is what it is.

Maybe ffg didn't feel it needed explaining because it's obvious that the primary fires from the front.

Each section has a role.

The front is its primary. When it is destroyed you flip over the front section card over.

Answer this then

If the front section was destroyed why would the rear section primary be effected if that was the case.

Shouldn't the rear section still be shooting with 4 dice? It was never touched.

Likewise if the back section was destroyed why can't the front still gain the same amount of energy?

Answer is because they are both separated from one another.

The only difference is that both section can equip upgrades that requires energy to be used such as hardpoints

I really hope your not thinking of entering the tournament and try to convince people you can use the primary on the back because it's wrong.

It's sad that people are willing to waste other people time by emailing them about a ridiculous question.

Id rather ffg employees to use their time towards more productive things rather than answering questions that don't need to be answered

I can only imagine the talk around the water cooler.

I'm asking questions about rules, trying to clarify them in a RULES based subforum, and your condescension is not only inappropriate but rude.

I'm glad you're so confident in your interpretation, but the wording is ambiguous, and while the popular interpretation is most likely correct, questions like this need to be asked. The rule interactions for huge ships are fairly fresh, and not always obvious.

As for me, I have no problem occupying the time of employees whose job it is to write and clarify rules with clarification of poorly written rules.

The rules are not poorly written.

It's pretty obvious how it works.

You've been given many examples on why and how it works.

I'm not trying to be rude but when you have been told why you basically deny what people here have told ya.

Btw you never answered my question. Im curious how you try to explain that

Your just going to waste someone's time getting a answer many here already told ya.

So you don't deny that your going to try shoot primary from the aft section on your ship?

As for "Denying what I'm told" yes, I am presenting counterpoints to what people insist is the "obvious" interpretation. That's the whole point.

As for your question, that happened yesterday, we all talked about the issue before the tournament. Want to know where we landed? Same place we're at here, it *seems* like the primary only fires from the fore, but the simple fact is that it's NOT clear from the rules. This was the consensus of everyone in the tournament, and afterward we decided quite amiably to go ahead and just use the forward arc while I put in an FFG ticket to clarify for the next one.

Your implication that I'm some kind of slimy rules lawyer trying to sneak an advantage via intentionally deceptive interpretation is particularly insulting. (It wasn't even an implication really, it was a direct accusation)

In any case, I've said what I have to say on the subject, and submitted my ticket.

EDIT: You're correct, I don't know your intent, only what you wrote. Corrected to reflect that.

Double post, edited while I figure out how to delete.

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

Okay, the energy grid is specific to the aft and the weapon system is specific to the fore, but the energy grid can specifically be used by either section, and the weapon system can't?

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does not. Based on that I can easily argue and support that there is no reason to assume the primary CANNOT fire from the "base to which it is not equipped" (particularly considering the fact that we're talking about ONE ship with TWO bases, not two distinct ships, and that a ship can only have ONE primary weapon, so the question of where it's equipped is moot)

Crew accompaniment is optional, and since both sections of a ship get to take actions, it makes sense to divide them up, or they'd quickly start washing eachother out.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

This is the problem, the wording is ambiguous and the application seems arbitrary.

Just stop.

I think your reading way to much into this.

Is it because you want to field the Raider naked in a 200 pt tournament?

Which to me a 200 pt tournament is not enough pts for epic play (their tournament rules even state 300 pts, 400 for team games)

I hope the TO has a better understanding of the rules.

Stop trying to be a rules lawyer and just accept the fact it is what it is.

Maybe ffg didn't feel it needed explaining because it's obvious that the primary fires from the front.

Each section has a role.

The front is its primary. When it is destroyed you flip over the front section card over.

Answer this then

If the front section was destroyed why would the rear section primary be effected if that was the case.

Shouldn't the rear section still be shooting with 4 dice? It was never touched.

Likewise if the back section was destroyed why can't the front still gain the same amount of energy?

Answer is because they are both separated from one another.

The only difference is that both section can equip upgrades that requires energy to be used such as hardpoints

I really hope your not thinking of entering the tournament and try to convince people you can use the primary on the back because it's wrong.

It's sad that people are willing to waste other people time by emailing them about a ridiculous question.

Id rather ffg employees to use their time towards more productive things rather than answering questions that don't need to be answered

I can only imagine the talk around the water cooler.

I'm asking questions about rules, trying to clarify them in a RULES based subforum, and your condescension is not only inappropriate but rude.

I'm glad you're so confident in your interpretation, but the wording is ambiguous, and while the popular interpretation is most likely correct, questions like this need to be asked. The rule interactions for huge ships are fairly fresh, and not always obvious.

As for me, I have no problem occupying the time of employees whose job it is to write and clarify rules with clarification of poorly written rules.

The rules are not poorly written.

It's pretty obvious how it works.

You've been given many examples on why and how it works.

I'm not trying to be rude but when you have been told why you basically deny what people here have told ya.

Btw you never answered my question. Im curious how you try to explain that

Your just going to waste someone's time getting a answer many here already told ya.

So you don't deny that your going to try shoot primary from the aft section on your ship?

Whatever your intent, what you said was quite rude in my opinion, and I don't appreciate your attempts at ridicule.

As for "Denying what I'm told" yes, I am presenting counterpoints to what people insist is the "obvious" interpretation. That's the whole point.

As for your question, that happened yesterday, we all talked about the issue before the tournament. Want to know where we landed? Same place we're at here, it *seems* like the primary only fires from the fore, but the simple fact is that it's NOT clear from the rules. This was the consensus of everyone in the tournament, and afterward we decided quite amiably to go ahead and just use the forward arc while I put in an FFG ticket to clarify for the next one.

Your implication that I'm some kind of slimy rules lawyer trying to sneak an advantage via intentionally deceptive interpretation is particularly insulting. (It wasn't even an implication really, it was a direct accusation)

In any case, I've said what I have to say on the subject, and submitted my ticket.

EDIT: You're correct, I don't know your intent, only what you wrote. Corrected to reflect that.

I'll ask again

If I blow up the front section of the ship do you not flip over the fore card?

Next, why would the aft section primary be effected?

If by what your saying then technically the aft is untouched, then shouldn't it's primary value still be at 4 and not2?

Same goes for the back section.

If I blow it up then why would the front section energy gain be different?

It's because they are both on a different section.

The fore card has right on it it's primary value.

The back has its energy value.

If the back section was ment to share the primary then it's kind of obvious that it would have the primary value on the card, therefore when you blow it up then it would be reduced

But it doesnt.

It's just like someone else said here.

If you equip a quad laser on the front, then by your logic, you should be able to fire from the back, but you can't.

Just because the CR90 can only fire primary from it's fore arc (because it's turret symbol is printed on the fore section only) does not mean the same rules AUTOMATICALLY apply to the Raider. That's why people want an official ruling.

You cannot fire the primary from the aft section and you cannot store energy on the fore section. The energy plant is specific to the back and the weapon to the front. Anyone doubting that I urge to look at their CR90 damage deck and look at Grid Overload.

There is no reason to assume the Raider's primary can fire from a base to which it is not equipped. The CR90 primary can only fire from the fore arc because it's equipped to the fore ship card. Crew cards that take actions can only take them from the section they're equipped to, hardpoints can only fire from the section they're equipped to, damage is only taken on the section which is hit.

Okay, but the energy stored on the aft card can be used on the fore card, so... that doesn't really answer anything.

Okay, the energy grid is specific to the aft and the weapon system is specific to the fore, but the energy grid can specifically be used by either section, and the weapon system can't?

Nope, that doesn't follow in the slightest and again, the CR-90 booklet deals with this specifically, the Raider booklet does not. Based on that I can easily argue and support that there is no reason to assume the primary CANNOT fire from the "base to which it is not equipped" (particularly considering the fact that we're talking about ONE ship with TWO bases, not two distinct ships, and that a ship can only have ONE primary weapon, so the question of where it's equipped is moot)

Crew accompaniment is optional, and since both sections of a ship get to take actions, it makes sense to divide them up, or they'd quickly start washing eachother out.

Further supporting this, "team" cards, no matter which section they're equipped to, apply their effect to the whole ship. Yes, they go down when the section they're physically in goes down, but again they affect the WHOLE ship when they're active. Same for range 1 effects. If a crew card or ability specifies "all ships at range 1" that means the WHOLE epic ship, not just the section they are in.

This is the problem, the wording is ambiguous and the application seems arbitrary.

Just stop.

I think your reading way to much into this.

Is it because you want to field the Raider naked in a 200 pt tournament?

Which to me a 200 pt tournament is not enough pts for epic play (their tournament rules even state 300 pts, 400 for team games)

I hope the TO has a better understanding of the rules.

Stop trying to be a rules lawyer and just accept the fact it is what it is.

Maybe ffg didn't feel it needed explaining because it's obvious that the primary fires from the front.

Each section has a role.

The front is its primary. When it is destroyed you flip over the front section card over.

Answer this then

If the front section was destroyed why would the rear section primary be effected if that was the case.

Shouldn't the rear section still be shooting with 4 dice? It was never touched.

Likewise if the back section was destroyed why can't the front still gain the same amount of energy?

Answer is because they are both separated from one another.

The only difference is that both section can equip upgrades that requires energy to be used such as hardpoints

I really hope your not thinking of entering the tournament and try to convince people you can use the primary on the back because it's wrong.

It's sad that people are willing to waste other people time by emailing them about a ridiculous question.

Id rather ffg employees to use their time towards more productive things rather than answering questions that don't need to be answered

I can only imagine the talk around the water cooler.

I'm asking questions about rules, trying to clarify them in a RULES based subforum, and your condescension is not only inappropriate but rude.

I'm glad you're so confident in your interpretation, but the wording is ambiguous, and while the popular interpretation is most likely correct, questions like this need to be asked. The rule interactions for huge ships are fairly fresh, and not always obvious.

As for me, I have no problem occupying the time of employees whose job it is to write and clarify rules with clarification of poorly written rules.

The rules are not poorly written.

It's pretty obvious how it works.

You've been given many examples on why and how it works.

I'm not trying to be rude but when you have been told why you basically deny what people here have told ya.

Btw you never answered my question. Im curious how you try to explain that

Your just going to waste someone's time getting a answer many here already told ya.

So you don't deny that your going to try shoot primary from the aft section on your ship?

Whatever your intent, what you said was quite rude in my opinion, and I don't appreciate your attempts at ridicule.

As for "Denying what I'm told" yes, I am presenting counterpoints to what people insist is the "obvious" interpretation. That's the whole point.

As for your question, that happened yesterday, we all talked about the issue before the tournament. Want to know where we landed? Same place we're at here, it *seems* like the primary only fires from the fore, but the simple fact is that it's NOT clear from the rules. This was the consensus of everyone in the tournament, and afterward we decided quite amiably to go ahead and just use the forward arc while I put in an FFG ticket to clarify for the next one.

Your implication that I'm some kind of slimy rules lawyer trying to sneak an advantage via intentionally deceptive interpretation is particularly insulting. (It wasn't even an implication really, it was a direct accusation)

In any case, I've said what I have to say on the subject, and submitted my ticket.

EDIT: You're correct, I don't know your intent, only what you wrote. Corrected to reflect that.

That isn't the question that I wanted answered

I'll ask again

If I blow up the front section of the ship do you not flip over the fore card?

Next, why would the aft section primary be effected?

If by what your saying then technically the aft is untouched, then shouldn't it's primary value still be at 4 and not2?

Same goes for the back section.

If I blow it up then why would the front section energy gain be different?

It's because they are both on a different section.

The fore card has right on it it's primary value.

The back has its energy value.

If the back section was ment to share the primary then it's kind of obvious that it would have the primary value on the card, therefore when you blow it up then it would be reduced

But it doesnt.

It's just like someone else said here.

If you equip a quad laser on the front, then by your logic, you should be able to fire from the back, but you can't.

Apologies, allow me to answer that question for you.

Quite simply, because the rulebook makes a big deal about how all huge ships are one ship with two bases and two cards.

The primary weapon value is the weapon value for the whole ship in literally every other case except the CR-90 which, as I've said, is addressed specifically in the CR90 rulebook and is not strictly applicable to the Raider because the CR90 has a turreted primary. I don't know of any other ship that can't use its primary weapon out of multiple printed firing arcs.

The aft has the energy value yes, you place tokens on the aft ship card, yes, but both cards are still for one ship. One ship which can spend energy from the rear card to use abilities on the fore card.

If you flip the fore card to the reduced primary weapon value, it would affect the entire ship. Why wouldn't it? Again, one ship, two bases, two cards. It's not unreasonable at all to suppose that the primary weapon coils (or whatever space magic you care to use) are stored in the fore of the ship whereas the primary capacitors (insert space magic) are stored in the aft. The loss of either of these systems would affect the entire ship (as it does).

In fact, there are critical effects to the fore AND aft sections that can deal damage to the other section, so the assumption that the cards are entirely separate would again seem to be reductive.

As for the quad laser example, that is directly addressed in the Raider rulebook. Secondary weapons equipped to a section can only fire from the arcs on that section. This is described using the rear section as an example and not the fore, yes, but the example is clearly intended to apply to all secondary weapons. This could probably stand to be clarified too, but it's nowhere near as egregious as never writing down which arc the primary is allowed to use and printing three primary (solid) arcs on the same ship.

What is NOT stated specifically is *anything* about which arc the primary weapon uses, it's all assumed, and while the obvious assumption may be correct, I state yet again that it is NOT specified in the rules, which it should be. This general assumption seems to even make sense until you consider that there are other ships with multiple firing arcs that have no issue using their primary out of both, like the YV-666 and the Firespray 31.

EDIT: Formatting

Huge Ship Rules.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/2d/47/2d47a35a-6ec7-4d4b-a262-efacde97dfa3/huge_ship_rules.pdf

Page 2

Turret Primary Weapon

Some huge ships have a primary weapon that is a turret. Thus, the Ship card

will show the turret primary weapon icon, and the ship token

will show a circular red arrow as a reminder.

When that ship attacks with its turret primary weapon, it may target an

enemy ship inside or outside its firing arc, and it measures range

from the corresponding section’s base.

The Raider doesn't have a turret does it?

I'm a little late to this party but it seems that the Huge Ship Rules clearly explain how to handle primary turrets and secondary weapons but offer no guidance about how to handle primary weapons that aren't turrets.

Either guess about how it should be handled is just a guess. There's nothing in the rules or FAQ that clearly makes either position correct. Until FFG offers guidance everyone will just need to establish how it will be handled in their games before they start playing.

Well the cr90 does mention about it, but as a turret.

Why can't the cr90 fire it's turret from the aft section?

While the Raider doesn't make any mention I think that the weapon value on the fore card, is enough to know that is where you fire it from

Looking at it from a balance issue that seem powerful if the Raider could fire from it's aft

As for the example given above about the Firespray and houndstooth. Maybe if large ships had two small bases then maybe they would have a different value on there. But they only have one base.

Again though the attack value is written in the base and card.

Where as with the raider there is no attack value on the aft base nor the aft card.

So that argument is rather invalid imo.

I think the majority agree that the primary is fore only.

Isn't it enough to see the value printed on the card?

No attack value on the rear. No primary

primary, but options to put secondary