ktom said:

I don't think the fact that one decktype (Winter GJ), or two if "standing" = neutralizing, can deal with this character means that he's healthy for the environment. And even if those two houses have decent ways of dealing with him, that still leaves three other houses with serious problems. I dunno, maybe he's more balanced now than a month or so ago, and I'm glad your meta found ways to deal with him. I guess we're just a little slower out here... (Care to post any decktypes or elaborate a bit on your non-GJ strategies?)

EDIT: For grammar...apparently the computer I'm using won't let me use emdashes/double hyphens.

Twn2dn said:

This is why i think he is more a symptom then the cause. Its that lanni does so much other things that makes his effect so much greater. If its just him its not a huge problem. If you take him out of the environment lanni still has no problem kneeling people. now if you wanted to talk about flogged and chained (which triggers of off another kneel) then i'm listening.

I'm not sure how you compare F&C with CotR. For one more cost I get a character who will reliably trigger every round against any character w/o an attachment, vs. a kneel whose only advantage is that it hits a character with attachments but requires that I have another kneel effect, which is probable, but not as likely, esp. without the CotR.

On a more germane note: Since FFG doesn't do "release dates" per se. Should I assume that the appearance of Princes of the South on the FFG website (the last resort for anyone who doesn't get it promptly at their home store) will be the most reliable determinant of when it's legal for the tournament. Could the organizers give us a "last possible date of release" that would make it legal for play? We still haven't seen dates, but I'm assuming based on the announcement order (which could be wishful thinking) that PotS will follow KL and precede Wolves.

Two weeks before the event.

So if it is out by Friday 11/13, it will be legal for Black Friday.

Concerning the Castellan, well, okay, but don't say I didn't warn you guys :-P

Maester_LUke said:

Castellan requires me to play a card in marshalling every phase and there are times where i don't want to do that. do i really need to play that 2nd gold road when i already have 6 locations and fleeing hasn't been played or a mountain refugee w/ 5 characters and no valar played yet? plus if you play F&C on a character with a bodyguard F&C survives your valor and castellan won't. Oh and if/when you do get castellan off, F&C justs adds to it, as well as lannisport brothel, killed the wrong dwarf, distraction, jaime, cersei, to be a lion, etc, etc. i don't think lanni has trouble getting a guaranteed kneel off a turn, w/ F&C that one kneel becomes 2, 3, or 4 kneels....

Why would you not kill the character to get rid of Flogged? You know he's going to be knelt half the tiem anyway - I don't get that.

Castellan is defiintely the stronger card, but I am pretty confidnet he cna be worked around these days. ally hate, better burn, a littel more influence for Baratheon stand....I'm not so worried about him anymore.

I can pretty much guarantee Flogged will not be treated as a probelm card for this tournament. It really hasn't had a big effect in this meta yet.

Stag, just wanted to ask what your ruling would be on a certain scenario: if my opponent takes control of my card which came out of shadows and it gets sent back to shadows, does it go to my opponent's shadow area or my own?

nevermind found the answer in the rules discussion forum. cards in shadows are considered to have left play and thus revert back to the owner's shadows area.

Its a good clarification though - and important to get it out here in general where most people browse. Wulfen actually cleared this up for me the toher day - I was wondering how a Syrio who had been taken by Men with No King would be handled.

Stag Lord said:

I really don't get it. Why do people think that would have been any different than, say, someone taking control of your Viserys Targaryen and using his ability to return him to hand?

I guess because you don't really think of Shadows being out of play. Its cards on the table after all - and they aren't "dead" and they aren't "discarded" so psychologically, it just feels like they are more "in play" tahn they are.

Of course they aren't =- and of course you're analogy makes snese, but its still a bit of an adjustment,.

Stag Lord said:

I guess I see that. Because they are physically on the table and more actionable than the discard or dead piles, there is a psychological pressure to think of them differently than you think of cards in other "out of play" areas.

I suppose my approach to it had always been different. Since I know that "in Shadows" is not "in play" but there are rules for getting them into play (instead of needing a card effect like the discard or dead piles would), I've always thought of the Shadows area as more of an "auxiliary hand" than some sort of "not-quite-play" state. When you think of cards in the Shadows area the way you think of cards in your hand, they don't feel like they are "in play" that much and the psychology of it is very different.

Thanks for the insight. It helps my brain and blood pressure a lot.

People who were at Black Friday last year will recall that we handed out t-shirts to all participants. We'd like to do that again, if there is interest, however, to do a small silk screen run is not cheap. I've started talking with the shop I used last year and it looks like the cost would run about $12-$15 a shirt (depending on some variables). Are people interested in a t-shirt if it means that the entry fee will be that much higher? The design would be basically the logo you see at the top of this thread (~unless Lars has changes for me to make ). I think it has to be all or none rather than some people paying more and getting a t-shirt while others don't (I'll probably have to eat some cost as it is as I expect to have to order extra t-shirts to hit their minimum run requirement).

LetsGoRed said:

heh, none this time around

pencil us in for 3 shirts 2 XL one L....i not 100% on the other 2 but i'm guessing they would be okay with it.

Lars said:

Lars was right in speaking for me. I definitely want the shirt and will pay more for it.

There is a reason why I now generally stack my shadows cards in a face down pile near my dead and discard piles.

Sorry, talking t-shirts again. If folks could email me at the nightswatchnyc address below with their name and t-shirt sizes and the names and sizes of anyone you're passing info along for that would help me keep things organized and hopefully avoid double counting. I don't know if the DC/VA guys have decided if they'll make it to the tournament, but if you could email me with your best guess, whether you want to see t-shirts handed out, and what your t-shirt size is (even if you vote against them since you might get stuck with one anyways ) that would be helpful as I try to figure whether or not to prepare the logo for silk screening and place an order. Twn2dn and finitesquarewell, I know some of your group doesn't post here, so if you can get them to email me or include their responses in your emails, that would be appreicated. Bloodycelt, if you could do the same for you and anyone thinking of coming with you, that would be great. Thanks, all.

~How much will it cost me to get "CHAMPION" printed preemptively on the back? :-P

Jason: I sent you an email with the head count for the DC Meta and t-shirt sizes.

Dan: I know you're probably not going, so I didn't include you in that email; if you want us to bring you back a Black Friday t-shirt as I did last year, email Jason with your size and CC me on it.

finitesquarewell said:

~Do you think you can come and push around the NY meta for a third straight time on our own turf? Them's fightin' words! (Oh brother, I hope you realize the level of smack you are going to hear if you don't win it this time around.)

Thanks for sending the info. With DC/VA behind the t-shirts, I'm going to go ahead and work on prep'ing the logo and ordering them. So anyone who thinks they are coming and wants to make sure there's a t-shirt their size on hand, please email me, thanks.

Jason

someone likes us! They really like us!

So it looks like my chances of attending are increasing (up to about 50% now, I think), thanks largely to my wife coming along to an AGOT session this past Sunday and the AGOT crowd noting in front of my wife how great it would be if I could join them at Black Friday. (Kudos to Finite and CaseyVA especially for their enthusiasm. For some reason, my wife thinks you're both really cool [shocking, I know!], so your peer pressure there surprisingly goes a long way in persuading her.)

I'm still waiting on my dad, who's visiting me from out of town that week, to see if he'd want to go to NYC. He's never been there before, so I think he'd be up for the trip, but he is getting old and all that so we'll see.

Even if I can't make it, however, I hope to be there in spirit...having helped the other meta folks playtest for the event. (Last year, Finite and I playtested for a couple weeks before the event, honing his Stark deck to something ridiculous. I like to think I played at least a small role in his victory because the 5KE Myrcella he played out of house would have went in my deck had I been able to make it , so all that extra draw was included only because I didn't show )

finitesquarewell said:

Not much... Though adding "GROUPIE" below that will cost you a few extra dollars.

Everyone is aware that we may need to charge $ 25 (or slightly more) admission if we go with these T shirts, right? I just want to be clear on that

what's the approximate entry fee without the shirts?