28 or less. This way you can fly one with 6 TIE Fighters.

So...

One Cutlass with EM and Conner Nets....

And six Academy TIEs!

One point left there. Come Wave8, give it a Tracer missile.

Redline at 40pts, or a Bounty Hunter with 7 points of upgrades?

Bleh.

34 pt Deathrain alongside 66pt Howlrunner + 4 Academy Ties would also work.

Deathrain + Conner Net + EM + Enhanced Scopes, 33pts, is probably pretty good. Seismic charge works as well.

Deathrain 26

Conner Net 4

Seismic Charge 2

EM 2

Accuracy Corrector 3

37 points

Corrector let's him use actions for setting up bomb drops while retaining a bit of firepower. Net hoses positional ships. Seismic hoses swarms. You get two of each. I don't even hate stripping him down further and dropping AC. I'm not sure he really needs much else because his ability gives him so many options for deployment.

I think I'd rather have Proton Bombs than Seismics and AC. That might just be me falling in love with his ability, though.

You're totally right your paying a lot of points for the platform and ability, 3 more to make Seismic a Proton is 100% the right move.

I think the temptation is to build Deathrain or Redline to be flexible by carrying different types of ordnance, but I think keeping them cheap is key, which means keeping them specialized. These ships are going to be a high priority target anyway, so the more expensive they are the less difficult your opponent's target priority will be.

I think I like giving them a bomb, missile, or torpedo and pairing it with extra munitions and calling it good and then building strong squads around them rather than making them the obvious centerpiece.

Agreed. They don't have the defensive profile to be a centerpiece.

Something to consider here is to Autothruster or not to Autothruster. On most of the native boost ships, this is a no-brainer, but for a ship that already has a lot of upgrade taxes (Extra Mun. & Mun. Failsafe, etc.) does this ship merit the +2 added points to keep it from getting shredded by fat turrets?

I don't think so. This ship (if you must take it) should be kept cheap and equipped with useful and effective ordinance like Conners, Prox's, and Cluster Missiles. Putting AT's on a named Punisher might make him last longer, but I think these guys should be outfitted to drop all their stuff early so they don't die with any unused ordinance.

I've been wondering the same thing. With AGI 1, you're only getting something out of it less than half the shots that it actually activates. Combine that with the limited number of turns they can expend their payload, and I think you probably don't do Autothrusters unless you can expect to face a lot of swarms. that could save you some serious hit points first turn.

Problem is giving them just 2 ordnance is going to make then really useless really fast

These guys aren't kwings with their crew + turret slot, once the expendibles are gone the punisher turns into a really **** bomber.

Wouldn't let them on a table with at least 4 shots, even if they're just plasmas/seismics

2 warheads + EM is 4 shots.

I meant 1 warhead, 1 muni

Which is what I'm running on my warden (conners + em) because into agent and autoblaster take care of the rest

Punishers have no such staying power. They'll probably need at least 2 things that go bomb and then extra munitions

I've been wondering the same thing. With AGI 1, you're only getting something out of it less than half the shots that it actually activates. Combine that with the limited number of turns they can expend their payload, and I think you probably don't do Autothrusters unless you can expect to face a lot of swarms. that could save you some serious hit points first turn.

The Punisher is the one ship so far that Autothrusters might be a "Hell No" on. I guess that saves points for seismics and such.

Fick is right, these guys aren't K-wings...if the Punisher had access to the crew slot they would have way better utility for the points you spend on them. These guys are screaming for a Weapons Engineer.

I'm not going to say the Punisher is being shipped broken, but I'm very skeptical about it's performance vs cost.

Against out of arc turrets and R3 shots Autothrusters are better than C3PO is on a rebel ship, since it can be used multiple times. Also, the Punisher is only four hit points shy of Falcon level resilience, so if a 60+ point Falcon is acceptable then a Punisher should be fine at a little over 40. I'd take the 'thrusters.

Wouldn't go overboard with ordnance though. Max one cheap torpedo/missile on Deathrain and one cheap bomb on Redline.

Problem is giving them just 2 ordnance is going to make then really useless really fast

These guys aren't kwings with their crew + turret slot, once the expendibles are gone the punisher turns into a really **** bomber.

Wouldn't let them on a table with at least 4 shots, even if they're just plasmas/seismics

My prediction is that you will not see competitive expensive named Punishers. Heck, I'm not sure we'll see generics either at all. There just aren't small ships that are consistently competitive adding 7+ points of offense. For an example, the HLC is seven points and we rarely see it competitively on small ships. So, my hypothesis that adding running two munition choices (more) is actually going to make the ship more "useless" since it will be heavily targeted and has almost no defensive capabilities and you'll never get the chance to use those four options.

Adding points means you'll be required to get more out of them since the rest of your squad will be smaller.

I meant 1 warhead, 1 muni

Which is what I'm running on my warden (conners + em) because into agent and autoblaster take care of the rest

Punishers have no such staying power. They'll probably need at least 2 things that go bomb and then extra munitions

I'm not sure we'd use "staying power" the same way since that's essentially why I think the minimalist approach will be better with them, but I agree with you -- their overall offensive output is weak for their cost. That said, Redline's double TL actually gives him a bit of added offense after he fires his missiles away and Deathrain is a great setup man but he needs support around him to close things out. He'll never do enough damage on his own to justify his points.

I'll probably run Redline with proton torpedoes and extra munitions and call it good. That leaves 67 points to be spent on support.

Deathrain will be a lot of fun with just Connor Net and Extra Munitions. That leaves 68 points, which is enough for Howlrunner and four other Ties which will rip apart anything that ends up in the net and overall will provide some interesting target priority. Alternatively, 68 points is enough for a variety of support that can take advantage of a helpless ship

When I consider bringing a generic I figure why not just bring a bomber.

Something to consider here is to Autothruster or not to Autothruster. On most of the native boost ships, this is a no-brainer, but for a ship that already has a lot of upgrade taxes (Extra Mun. & Mun. Failsafe, etc.) does this ship merit the +2 added points to keep it from getting shredded by fat turrets?

I don't think so. This ship (if you must take it) should be kept cheap and equipped with useful and effective ordinance like Conners, Prox's, and Cluster Missiles. Putting AT's on a named Punisher might make him last longer, but I think these guys should be outfitted to drop all their stuff early so they don't die with any unused ordinance.

I think autothrusters will depend on the meta. If Wave 7 pushes big turrets out, there's really no need. If they're still around, ATs will be worth their two points.

I believe I already said this but any game I've seen the punisher has not gone well. That's for me, and opponents.

I'm going to take one more stab with redline.

This time I'll put in a Palpatine shuttle, and shadow Squadron with Stygium and fire control systems, or Sigma with Tactician

Not sure which of the phantom would be better

Has the full range of cards that comes with the Punisher been spoiled yet?

Is there a possibility of a new system upgrade that bring hitherto unconsidered capabilities to the table?

Nope. There are no new system cards in the Punisher pack.

Source: GenCon Pre buy

A big target, yes, but as an ordnance platform, his job is to get his ordnance off. That's only about 2-4 rounds of shooting he has to survive. I think it's possible he can be useful.

My prediction is the generic punisher will be favored for this reason and the other pilots will need to be assisted by pretty creative list building to remain effective.

This ship requires trial by combat. A few months after Wave 7 drops, I think we'll have a much better idea. That's what's exciting about new stuff, putting it to the test and seeing how it handles.

Going to have to wait for Wave 8 for this one, but I'm curious as to how Deathrain + Kenkirk will pan out. With Rebel Captive, Ysanne and Kallus (and probably Predator), Kenkirk will be pretty tough and a decent answer to arc dodgers, while Deathrain can bring the hurt to big ships. Sure, they have terrible agility, but then again, 25 hit points. Probably terrible against swarms, but I honestly can't remember the last time I saw one.

I have to laugh at people wondering if the Punisher will dish out enough points of damage to be worth taking at 40-ish points. In the first game I played with Wave 7 ships, Deathrain out-shot and outlasted two ATC Advanceds, going toe-to-toe with a decked-out Bossk.

Doing something like 12 damage from Cluster Mines alone was good enough. Stripping off all of Bossk's shields in one pass was great. Almost killing off a 70-point Large on his (her?) own sealed my love for this pilot. I only lost the match because I got greedy with the final mine placement; if I'd flown conservatively I'd have killed the Hound's Tooth and the Nashtah Pup with one mine.

For generic Punishers I'm thinking the best bet is just to take 1 missle/torp/mine with EM. Doing so keeps the punisher pretty darn cheap with plenty of room to flesh out the list with scarier things so the Punisher can do its job then be annoying.

When going cheap, you're just better off with a generic bomber. Same ****, 5 point discount.

When going cheap, you're just better off with a generic bomber. Same ****, 5 point discount.

I'm tending to agree. An extra 3 shields and a sensor slot that probably won't get used on a generic isn't enough to warrant the extra points over the generic bomber. Just wanted to keep the subject on the punisher

I think haveing a systems jammer on one and making your opponent chose between another damage that won't kill your ship and loosing a focus against a missle/torpedo attack could prove effective

I do like the idea of Sensor Jammer, I just don't know where the points come from. Non-Deathrain models really miss the FCS as well. This ship is hard.

If a list has the extra points and a loaded Deathrain, I might be able to convince myself to put a Jammer in there.