I have been playing on Vassal lately in order to get games in of this wonderful game called Xwing (I work too often and weird hours to play person to person often). I have recently been coming up against TLT a lot, almost every list. This turret is most often carried by Miranda and flow side by side with Fat Han or Super Dash. I also went against a two Thug list with TWL and Bossk, that was a fun one to go against.

I was trying to play StarVipers as my new flight of fancy, but that quickly saw it's end. 2 attacks at 3 dice with a TL usually found it's way past my 3 dice defence at least one of the two shots, even with auto thrusters, because green dice fail. With only 1 shield and 4 hull, 1 shot through is a lot. I know now that it's got a range 1 donut hole like Dash, which might help, but still doesn't do too much. I honestly see it as a major threat to any list that doesn't have just a silly amount of health (Looking at you 3 Interceptor, phantom lists and two Iggy) and will make people flee back to the safety of tanky builds and big ships.

I only hope that in my limited experience with this new Meta that there lives a new hope in the new munitions.

I've been seeing some talk about the tlt

I was wondering is it really that good?

Sure you get three dice but the most dmg it can do is two total.

The first attack you roll, and hope you don't flop and hopefully have modifier.

Now you hope you don't flop your reroll possibly.

Now hopefully your opponent rolls bad.

You got three total hits but only 1 dmg

Then you do it again..

I can see that this would be good against low agility ships, but does it really fair well against high agility?

Not to mention if you only have the one action (rebel ywing for example other than Horton) you'll only have one modifier for the one attack

By haveing two attacks, if you have good action economy, it could be effective at stripping tokens or leaking damage through high agility ships

Good Autoceptor pilots won't have a problem tokened up with stealth device there always going to be hard to hit. where a 1 agility ship will always be hit

I've been seeing some talk about the tlt

I was wondering is it really that good?

Sure you get three dice but the most dmg it can do is two total.

The first attack you roll, and hope you don't flop and hopefully have modifier.

Now you hope you don't flop your reroll possibly.

Now hopefully your opponent rolls bad.

You got three total hits but only 1 dmg

Then you do it again..

I can see that this would be good against low agility ships, but does it really fair well against high agility?

Not to mention if you only have the one action (rebel ywing for example other than Horton) you'll only have one modifier for the one attack

Krynn007, it's really, really good.

Low agility ships? Hits nearly every shot. If you have no modifier, you're still nearly guaranteed 1 damage, and 2 still happens a ton.

High agility ships? Green dice fail occasionally, and the more shots you have to make that happen, the better. And against ships like that, who cares if it's only 1 damage? If you're able to pinch through 1 hit on an interceptor per round, that's nasty.

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As to good counters for them... Call me crazy, but you know what's REALLY good against TLT..?

Ion Torpedoes.

Especially if they have multiple TLT shooters. Pop it off, Ionize em, and next round, rush your squad into range 1, and watch them burn right before your range 1 eyes.

I've been seeing some talk about the tlt

I was wondering is it really that good?

Sure you get three dice but the most dmg it can do is two total.

The first attack you roll, and hope you don't flop and hopefully have modifier.

Now you hope you don't flop your reroll possibly.

Now hopefully your opponent rolls bad.

You got three total hits but only 1 dmg

Then you do it again..

I can see that this would be good against low agility ships, but does it really fair well against high agility?

Not to mention if you only have the one action (rebel ywing for example other than Horton) you'll only have one modifier for the one attack

Krynn007, it's really, really good.

Low agility ships? Hits nearly every shot. If you have no modifier, you're still nearly guaranteed 1 damage, and 2 still happens a ton.

High agility ships? Green dice fail occasionally, and the more shots you have to make that happen, the better. And against ships like that, who cares if it's only 1 damage? If you're able to pinch through 1 hit on an interceptor per round, that's nasty.

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As to good counters for them... Call me crazy, but you know what's REALLY good against TLT..?

Ion Torpedoes.

Especially if they have multiple TLT shooters. Pop it off, Ionize em, and next round, rush your squad into range 1, and watch them burn right before your range 1 eyes.

I'm just wondering though is it worth 6 pts?

I guess I'm looking at it from a ywing perspective, or hwk.

The bonus I see is its range 2-3 vs 1-2 from Blaster and ion turrets.

I mean now agility ships are easy to hit anyway, but have a lot of health, so for the first bit isn't going to hurt much (though later that may matter and ignoring maybe a bad idea) and high agility ships dice will still fail, but with an ion or Blaster you'll either ion them which the way I see it do more harm, or more dmg would get through via Blaster Turret

It's as you mentioned, it needs good action economy. Which can be a struggle all depending.

I really like the range though.

It's nice having the ywing able to get shots off at range 3 with its secondary.

I faced it Thursday it was annoying only because Biggs was on the table and that gave it an extra turn of shooting.

It didn't kill anything just plinked a few sheilds.

With Autothrusters and PTL interceptors don't really need to sweat that much, other ships will take hits but anything it's mounted on can be focused down quick due to low agility.

Ya I think it would still be pretty hard to get through on autothrusters.

Maybe on Horton, or a hwk but I really wondered is it 6 pts good?

I can see why you'd pair it with Miranda, as the shield repair is nice.

But I see this as being REALLY annoying on Horton. Re-roll blanks on any shot he takes with it - not just 'once a turn', and no missed opportunities from effects having different range bands - Horton works at the same ranges the TLT works at.

If starvipers are getting hit by tlt, they don't have thrusters

Fix immediately

I can see why you'd pair it with Miranda, as the shield repair is nice.

But I see this as being REALLY annoying on Horton. Re-roll blanks on any shot he takes with it - not just 'once a turn', and no missed opportunities from effects having different range bands - Horton works at the same ranges the TLT works at.

4 golds with TLT, 24 dice doing 4-8 damage is nice.

I can see why you'd pair it with Miranda, as the shield repair is nice.

But I see this as being REALLY annoying on Horton. Re-roll blanks on any shot he takes with it - not just 'once a turn', and no missed opportunities from effects having different range bands - Horton works at the same ranges the TLT works at.

That's a lot of points for two damage.

But it is also 360 and it doesn't require the points investment of a large ship PWT.

And ANY damage is preferable to none on against high agi / low health ships.

In a lot of ways, it is almost like the swarm in terms of damage output. So, yes, it is going to be another kick to the two ship meta. Which is fine. They also lose the blocking power of the swarm. And some squads will have the firepower to knock out their firepower really quickly. Or get into the donut hole.

Yes, it's fantastic.

It eats stealth devices for breakfast.

Autothrusters will help some, but generally speaking, I melt Fel like warm butter

My current list on Vassal is called The Lawnmowers (credit to an opponent who said "holy crap, it's like a squad of flying lawnmowers!!!") and is undefeated (6-0), although it has NOT faced a ton of top-level squads either. What is consistent about it, is the profanity that is generally dropped right about the time that second TLT starts firing and the other guy fully understands what he's facing. That's my favorite part, tbh.

I'm just flying it as a "fun" squad, but it has already earned a spot for at least one OP tourney. Like the Spanish Inquisition, no one expects it.

Its deceptively much better than it looks to be. But not impossible. I think itll be nice to see some medium tanky ships too.. cuz full tank ships just lose hp fast.

I can see why you'd pair it with Miranda, as the shield repair is nice.

But I see this as being REALLY annoying on Horton. Re-roll blanks on any shot he takes with it - not just 'once a turn', and no missed opportunities from effects having different range bands - Horton works at the same ranges the TLT works at.

That's a lot of points for two damage.

But it is also 360 and it doesn't require the points investment of a large ship PWT.

And ANY damage is preferable to none on against high agi / low health ships.

I've actually found TLT Stresshog Horton to be really effective. He's 33 points, but you get all the goodness of a stresshog and then some. You can double stress at Range 3. You attack at PS 8, so there's very little chance of you being knocked off the board before you fire (and you're harder to arc-dodge). And you actually deal decent damage, since you have a pseudo-action for all three of your attacks each round -- one or two of them are going to get through, whereas a normal stresshog can usually only hope for one damage a round.

I can see why you'd pair it with Miranda, as the shield repair is nice.

But I see this as being REALLY annoying on Horton. Re-roll blanks on any shot he takes with it - not just 'once a turn', and no missed opportunities from effects having different range bands - Horton works at the same ranges the TLT works at.

It's okay on Horton. Much more accurate, but TLT has a donut hole weakness that's pretty easy to exploit, especially on Rebel Y-wings or on HWKs. Haven't fought a K-wing yet so can't comment there.

Getting and staying within range one of a K-wing is difficult. While they can't use a weapon after they slam they do have a lot more mobility than you would expect with a bomber. I didn't think it would be that good of a ship until I used it... I'm not completely sure on the correct build for them yet but it seems like it has quite a bit of promise.

I can see why you'd pair it with Miranda, as the shield repair is nice.

But I see this as being REALLY annoying on Horton. Re-roll blanks on any shot he takes with it - not just 'once a turn', and no missed opportunities from effects having different range bands - Horton works at the same ranges the TLT works at.

That's a lot of points for two damage.

Is it? How often do you get two damage with a cheaper ship? Especially in turret form?

Well, if action economy is so important to it, how about countering with some stress? Two attacks of 3 unmodified dice is an average of 1.5 hits per attack. Against High agility, that is likely to fail.

stress infliction + 3 agility very rarely coincide

I sure hope this tones down the number of Stealth Soontirs there are.

it won't

SD thruster soontir is the thing that won't die to TLT barring some really bad luck (and, since I'm not flying it, the **** things won't be so fickle )

no no, Conner Nets are what'll tone down the number of SD soontirs. you might not even see them any more

I can see why you'd pair it with Miranda, as the shield repair is nice.

But I see this as being REALLY annoying on Horton. Re-roll blanks on any shot he takes with it - not just 'once a turn', and no missed opportunities from effects having different range bands - Horton works at the same ranges the TLT works at.

That's a lot of points for two damage.

Is it? How often do you get two damage with a cheaper ship? Especially in turret form?

Especially against double-droid YT's.