I'm pretty sure Quachil and not Wendy was the deciding factor in that formula.

Just had our first game where multiple corruption cards came up.

They're...not good. I was under the impression (we never look at cards until they come up in a game) that corruption started out beneficial but accelerated downhill until you were drawing reds and getting screwed: short term gain, long term detriment which was an awesome idea.

But it turns out with the greens that half of them are barely any good while still having negative effects, and half of them are just plain bad for you. Then when you have to draw reds you're pretty much screwed.

They're just not worth getting, especially if you have to pay the cost of joining the cult on top of all the other negative effects.

Great concept, stillborn execution

I agree that it's not worth getting corruption cards if you have to actually spend time trying to join the cult; however, I completely disagree with your assessment of their value. I think they are very powerful *if* used properly. If you put them on a low sanity character, you're likely to get screwed. And of course, you also need to use outskirt swapping wisely. The key card in the proper use of the green deck is the one that lets you trade 2 sanity for 2 clue tokens (that's the game winner right there). Also, you can auto default on bankloans if you have endless greed and the card that doesn't let you lose items. The other trick to playing the cards well is closing a gate to get rid of downward spiral as fast as you can whenever you draw one.

GrooveChamp said:

I hate to break it to you, but it was you who lost the game, not Wendy. Wendy doesn't lose :') Quachil is fairly difficult to deal with, especially on a first game against him if you don't know what you're doing (I also lost my first game against him despite having played AH for several years— sure, I didn't have Wendy, but I don't need Wendy to win). The trick to dealing with him (beyond basic game skills) is having an understanding of the statistical probabilities of drawing his insanity loss cards and calculating for it while sending investigators off to seal gates or whatever. In a Wendy v. Quachill game the best thing to do would be get her her clues for a gate seal immediately, then if he looks like he's approaching consumption (i.e. he's on the second card stack for her). Trade off her elder sign before she gets eaten. It really shouldn't be a detriment to draw her, even against Quachil, she makes for two easy seals (and of course, once she gets eaten, you'll get a new investigator with new starting equipment).

Kkat said:

Okay, first of all, I know you're not using Epic Battles (because you don't have Kingsport), but how many players are you using? There's a major difference between a victory of two vs. an ancient one and four (i.e. I wouldn't even count a two player final battle combat as a win because it's so easy with decent equipment unless you're playing against something like Quachil). While I won't go so far as Dam and say that all final battle victories should count as draws (he doesn't even own Kingsport, yeesh!) small teams can beat most ancient ones fairly easily with a bit of decent equipment.

Heralds. Heralds are lovely. Although out of all the FFG heralds, I thought the ones in Innsmouth were the worst. They seemed very dull to me. Although they do add to the game challenge, and they amp up Cthulhu. So, that's nice. There's an official Dunwich Horror herald, and a Dark Pharoah herald somewhere on the FFG site. You need Dunwich Horror and Curse of the Dark Pharoah to play them properly though. Once you've mastered the game (as much as it is masterable, anyways) I suggest you try some of my custom components in the Heralds thread in fan creations and some of my Ancient Ones (same section)— I'd recommend my heralds, I think they tend to be more interesting then my AOs, but it's not like you have to choose one or the other (just whatever you do, don't play my harder heralds with my harder AOs :') unless you are a major masochist).

As for raising the difficulty with expansions... I feel like Dunwich and Innsmouth are probably the toughest combination... Kingsport will probably dilute the game in your favor. Granted, what you could do is weed out most of the Kingsport cards except for ones that manifest monsters there or have environments that you think you just *must* use. I'm not recommending you don't get it, I think the big box sets are the best and all of them are worth having, but, if you do get it, it can water down the game a little if you just mix it in with everything. Use my method and it will amp up the difficulty though (while also getting you more monsters, allies, equipment, ancient ones, and heralds— and the rift mechanic, another way to pass the time in pain).

If you bought a TV tray, you might be able to put another expansion board on it (instead of having to buy a whole new table).

Have you tried playing multiple investigators yet?

-The Forums

Kkat said:

Which expansion are Corruption Cards from?

We play with either two or three players.

Why do you say a two-player win is easier? I would think it would be considerably *harder*.

As for Heralds... what makes Heralds worthwhile? What do they add to the game besides just making a tough game harder?

I'll admit, I'm one of those strange players who enjoy Arkham Horror for the flavor of the game. I love the work of Lovecraft and those who follow(ed) in his footsteps. I love the Lovecraftian horror genre. And I love seeing places and circumstances that I recognize from the stories brought to an interesting new life in the game. If Heralds add depth to the characters or the story, like "personal stories" do... or bring in additional Lovecraftian Mythos in an intriguing and artful way, like the addition of an entire well-loved town like Innsmouth... let me know, because I'll be eager to use it.

If all they do is make the game more difficult: yawn, bleagh, toss.

Kkat

Kkat said:

Corruption cards are from the small box Black Goat of the Woods.

Two players usually make it easier to win a final combat game. They do have a difficult time with a seal victory and perhaps even more so with a close gate victory.

For the most part heralds do make the game harder and that is one of their main purposes. The most thematic herald is the one from the King in Yellow where every raise in terror "blights" a local citizen who then does mischief. It makes the terror level terrorizing. Unfortuneately there are only 13 blight cards and they get kind of old.

The Dunwich Horror herald attempts to make the Dunwich Horror to appear more readily. I don't think it does a very good job of overcoming the dilution of adding other expansion sets however. We have a house rule that all monsters in Dunwich except green borders almost move on the arrows. This includes flyers and stationary monsters too. Even then, a vigilant party of 4 players can almost always prevent the Dunwich Horror from appearing.

I consider myself a flavor player. This summer we went on vacation from California to Massachusetts and visited all the places that were in any way related to the game and to Lovecraft's stories and life. Innsmouth Horror is head and shoulders FFG's best work and definitely the most thematic of all the expansions. The Curse of the Dark Pharaoh is next followed closely by the King in Yellow. Dunwich is an amalgamation of several stories, none of which quite grabs the mythos for me but its components fix a lot of the game problems. Kingsport is like a bright and cheery vacationland to me, though certain components are very nice. The Black Goat of the Woods expansion needs lots of work and except for the Corruption cards has little to offer and even the corruption cards offer little in their current form.

mageith said:

Not sure how true this is, at least not for me. Dunwich Horror without the Herald: 6 in 82 games, with the Herald 5 in 7 games (including the only game with the DH Herald since adding IH). Of course, I'm less concerned about keeping him drowsing than I am of winning .

I'll admit, I'm one of those strange players who enjoy Arkham Horror for the flavor of the game. I love the work of Lovecraft and those who follow(ed) in his footsteps. I love the Lovecraftian horror genre. And I love seeing places and circumstances that I recognize from the stories brought to an interesting new life in the game.

You make it sound like that's a bad thing! I too am that kind of "strange". I was introduced to Lovecraft through Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu RPG--"Wait...SANITY is a STAT???"--which led me to the author's works, as well as the works of those who followed him...been a convert ever since. For me, the flavor is what makes Arkham Horror worth playing, and in the long run, what keeps me and my other cultists coming back to play. (So fun to show the "mainstream" the truth of the universe...)

I don't think you're "strange" at all (not any more than the rest of us). Perhaps I think that the unspoken majority of AH players love the theme, but just don't speak up much on online forums.

If Heralds add depth to the characters or the story, like "personal stories" do... or bring in additional Lovecraftian Mythos in an intriguing and artful way, like the addition of an entire well-loved town like Innsmouth... let me know, because I'll be eager to use it.

If you ever pick up King in Yellow, you absolutely MUST play a game with Hastur and his Herald. (Don't use any other expansions.) It might not be pretty, but it will be bursting with flavor. I will never play "tutorial" Azathoth without Ghroth or Tulzscha to liven things up. Those three are the FUN heralds.

If all they do is make the game more difficult: yawn, bleagh, toss.

The rest are pretty much that. After you have a heap of games behind you, you might enjoy the extra challenge, but thematically...? Pfffft. The Dark Pharaoh Herald doesn't really make Nyarlathotep more interesting; I get more out of some of the "customized" Nyarls (the ones that make the Masks into Spawn creatures, like Glaaki or Abhoth). Yog doesn't need a Herald to be more terrifying! No, the Dunwich Horror Herald is merely designed to wake up the DH board mechanic if one has already diluted Dunwich with other expansions. The Black Goat Herald MUST be used if the entire expansion is going to work AT ALL, but there's no question that the Black Goat makes the game much harder...and (I think) much less fun because there's no time to enjoy the flavor of the game while you're rushing around trying to slow it down. Dagon and Hydra...>sigh<...I honestly don't care. (And Dagon was one of the things I was begging for since he wasn't in the initial release.) They do indeed make game harder...when it just doesn't NEED to be. Innsmouth is brilliantly difficuly enough as it is. (Provided you haven't watered it down, no pun intended.)

We play with either two or three players.
Why do you say a two-player win is easier? I would think it would be considerably *harder*.

I always play 3-4 Investigators (at least). If there aren't 3-4 players: 2 players will double up, and I solo-play with 4. The primary reason for doing so is because it is really difficult to win the game before waking up the Ancient One with only 2 Investigators--almost impossible with 1--and then it is really easy to pound the Ancient One with 2 Investigators. Talk about bad flavor. With 3-4 Investigators, the "stirring slumber" game is "just right", and the Final Battle is as difficult as it should be (the Ghostbusters should never have survived the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man).

*knocks* - erm, is this the room for strange folk? oh, good!

jgt7771 said:

I agree, kinda reduces the game to even more of a race which is not good, its also less fun because of the hex cup, its just a drag, more work for example sorting through outskirts overflows and returning them to the right cup, ugh. And corruption cards well they are nicely thematic but bog monster movement down in a game which already has many (often varied) things to keep track of. Running the BG herald with Kingsport for ex can get kind of tedious as you have to move monsters, check for corruption, and check for rift activity. If you have downward spiral in play (+ Draw 2 corruption), you can end up with many corruption cards to check, and this can get to be irritating.

I snipped a bit since I just wanted to respond to this part. First of all, yes, you guys interpreted what I was saying about the game being easier (it's *very* unbalanced for final battle wins if you play a small team, and it's very unbalanced for sealing wins if you play a large team). Experience can also make the game too easy, or perhaps you simply want to change the way the game functions and have a different playing experience. In either case, that's when you want to bring out a Herald. Although I'd definitely say you should be playing with a herald if you have 5 or more players (otherwise sealing victories are just too easy, in my opinion— especially if you're willing to stock up cash for roaming through the curiousity shop for Elder Signs or Eldritch Tomes). And eight player teams... ::Rolls eyes:: forget it. If you know what you're doing with them, it's *far* too easy to break the game by visiting a location or two. Granted, you might be unwilling you use your knowledge for the salvation of mankind, in your quest to play the ultimate game of chicken with the forces of evil, as I am :') but still, even with normal tactics that don't involve the attempt to make a doom track extend to infinity, eight players can allow for a very brutal game for the Ancient One. Poor Ancient One, cowering in the corner.

Out of FFG's heralds, I tend to use The Dunwich Horror. I'm not so crazy about the King in Yellow (mostly because I no longer like Hastur— ever since I figured out how to beat him easily, for him to actually feel like a threat, I have to feel like I'm tying my hands behind my back). I also like Tulzscha and Ghroth. I think the Dagon/Hydra combination are a bit bland and overpowered (although I will play them to add a bit of spice to Cthulhu, perhaps while allowing the selection of one out of two random investigators, so far my two games against the pair, have been massacres, granted, I did play with a newbie instead of my usual multi-investigator solitaire, but still, they really burn through your clues fast).

Also, I completely agree with you regarding Nyarlethotep (hence my involvement with the creation and critique of custom Nyarlethotep variations in the Heralds thread since its beginning in the new forum). But Yog? Yog doesn't need a herald for extra terror? I disagree! :'D (I posted it on page 20 on the Heralds thread, but here's a direct link).

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt307/avi_dreader/Kerathimel.jpg

jgt7771 said:

Avi_dreader said:

Wheeeee! That's awesome! Fun with Gates. I will use this the next time Azathoth comes up.

Except I keep my Gates in a Elder Sign bag (the stack was too easily knocked over, and a pain to "shuffle"). Which just means I have to lay aside a R'lyeh and Abyss Gate (facedown), play one of them when I roll the first 1-4, then play the second when I roll the next 1-2. Then I can stop rolling dice before Gates, yes?

Rolling the dice seems awfully complicated. Seems like it would have been better if the Abyss and Rl'yeh gates were just randomly shuffled with 4 other gates and that stack was placed on top of the rest. Once those two gates are out, the dice aren't necessary anymore.

jgt7771 said:

Exactly. You got the point of it. It's just to ensure that players will *have* to deal with a R'lyeh or Abyss Gate during the game (since those are the most challenging ones). And I felt The Abyss would go well thematically with Azathoth ;')

Tibs said:

... ... **** it Tibs! Where were you in the heralds thread when I initially posted this?! Now I have to redo it. Pain in the ass. Good idea though ;') thanks (I guess). ::Mumble grumble::

Only thing I'd change about your suggestion is randomly shuffling them with 4 other gates. It'll only be three. Initially there was a 66% chance that one of them would be the first gate. I'd like to keep the likelihood of drawing one early high. I'd do two, but it would take out the element of randomness too much ;') and this herald is *all* about randomness.

Edit: Oh wait, whoops! I forgot about the upside down portals. You're right Tibs, 4 it is ;'D

Sorry, sorry! I don't go to the sub-forums. I'll try to visit there more frequently.

Tibs said:

You call them sub ;') I call them super.