You don't have to treat Vader as an arc-dodger all the time. Take this list:

Darth Vader (29)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
TIE/x1 (0)

"Mauler Mithel" (17)
Crack Shot (1)

"Backstabber" (16)

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Stealth Device (3)
Royal Guard TIE (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Vader and the Ties are just there for the straight up joust. Soontir is the bait. Go after Vader and Soontir will be there to make you pay. Go after Soontir and you'll look like those poor Y-wings in the trench.

Double post...

You don't have to treat Vader as an arc-dodger all the time. Take this list:

Darth Vader (29)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

"Mauler Mithel" (17)

Crack Shot (1)

"Backstabber" (16)

Soontir Fel (27)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Vader and the Ties are just there for the straight up joust. Soontir is the bait. Go after Vader and Soontir will be there to make you pay. Go after Soontir and you'll look like those poor Y-wings in the trench.

Vader's too pricey to waste as a jouster. That's what Accuracy Corrector Tempests are for.

I will reiterate:

Vader + Predator + X1 + ATC + Engine

Id consider that the current best build. Now, it won't use agility to shrug off as much damage as Soontir, but it will be more offensively consistent, which sometimes means more.

Upon examining the idea, I am fairly certain that, at this point in the game, it is impossible for a single ship to have a greater Damage Mitigation table than Baron Fel (with autothrusters and stealth device active, with focus and evade tokens at the ready, and Palpatine flying nearby).

He has the following factors in place.

With SD active, he's rolling 4-6 dice, depending on range and/or obstruction.

With AT active, he's converting one Blank result to an Evade result, every attack.

Palpatine can turn one result into an evade, once

Focus tokens (x2) can turn all Eyeball results on a given roll to evades, once (each)

Evade Token can generate one evade result, irrespective of dice rolled, once

With the arc-dodging capabilities, he can completely ignore an attack that could otherwise have been made. However, this would require that he's A) Not outflown, and B) Not facing a Turret. It's also fairly likely to result in fewer tokens.

In a world in which Fel has rolled 5 agility dice with PEF and Autothrusters active, even if you have successfully rolled 4 damage, you still have less than two tenths of a percent chance to scratch him!

If you only rolled 3, then Autothrusters, Palpatine, and the Evade Token take you out even if he rolls all blanks.

(In that scenario, you have a 6.9% chance to hit with 4 damage if Palpatine is not involved.)

Note that this is why preventing all of that from being active is the goal of folks harried by Fel.

Palpatine can turn one result into an evade, once

Maybe twice... until the shuttle that he's riding explodes from the concentrated fire directed towards it.

Palpatine can turn one result into an evade, once

Maybe twice... until the shuttle that he's riding explodes from the concentrated fire directed towards it.

Those are "Per Round" figures, mate.

Now, Lord Vader is close to these figures, if he takes Lone Wolf as his Elite Talent.

See, LW is 1/2 of Autothrusters, defensively, but has an additional 1/4 of a result if you desire to spend your Focus Token, and he can sacrifice the Engine Upgrades for a Stealth Device to boot.

(LW is also strictly better than Autothrusters at Range 1-2 in-arc)

He's no longer more mobile than Soontir Fel at that point, but has almost as much Mitigation along with more Damage than has the Baron...

Also, they both cost 35 at that level.

So, that's 2 Vader Builds thus far:

+ Engine Upgrades

+ Predator/Lone Wolf

+ Title and Advanced Targeting Computer

{37/36}

+ Stealth Device

+ Lone Wolf

+ Title and Advanced Targeting Computer

{35}

I'm seeing more general use for the first build but the second is maybe more turret resilient? Against anything else, not being shot in the first place is the order of the day?

not being shot in the first place is far easier said than done in a game with PWTs in it

So it's going to be soontir with PTL, SD, AT, title, Vader with LW, SD, AT©, title, and OGP with Palps?

And then they can all die together from a K-wing with adv. Slam and a Conner Net?

that's the idea

although you don't need a K if you have Deathrain

Yeah that's what I was trying to say. I'm far from expert so interested in people's thought process. There are more ship archetypes you would want the EU against? Pretty much any non PWT? Have to admit all my initial thinking was along those lines. Against jousters and arc Dodgers EU seems golden

But with so many list centred on the PWT at present.. Has enough been done to reduce their presence in the meta to the point that we can afford to think in terms of other lists?

I'm just imagining the other player somehow getting away from the net and Deathrain just running into it since it is 1 in front of him.

Considering most of the big builds seem to be Fat Han/dash/chirpy and their counters... Stealth Device might be better at the moment, but your mileage may vary depending on your local meta.

So it's going to be soontir with PTL, SD, AT, title, Vader with LW, SD, AT©, title, and OGP with Palps?

99 points of "Kill the shuttle first!"

And then they can all die together from a K-wing with adv. Slam and a Conner Net?

Yeah, Vader's a bit more resilient against that than Fel is, but knocking out their action economy AND their momentum for a turn will result in the loss of a Stealth Device, at a minimum.

I'm just imagining the other player somehow getting away from the net and Deathrain just running into it since it is 1 in front of him.

Considering most of the big builds seem to be Fat Han/dash/chirpy and their counters... Stealth Device might be better at the moment, but your mileage may vary depending on your local meta.

Deathrain plants and then BARREL ROLLs.

I'm just imagining the other player somehow getting away from the net and Deathrain just running into it since it is 1 in front of him.

Considering most of the big builds seem to be Fat Han/dash/chirpy and their counters... Stealth Device might be better at the moment, but your mileage may vary depending on your local meta.

Deathrain plants and then BARREL ROLLs.

The Deathrain Dream:

Front fart conners, roll

next turn, either move up and conners out the back or sensor out a front fart again

Yeah that's what I was trying to say. I'm far from expert so interested in people's thought process. There are more ship archetypes you would want the EU against? Pretty much any non PWT? Have to admit all my initial thinking was along those lines. Against jousters and arc Dodgers EU seems golden

But with so many list centred on the PWT at present.. Has enough been done to reduce their presence in the meta to the point that we can afford to think in terms of other lists?

Way I see it, the Boost + BR arc-dodge is not strictly necessary against most lists, excepting that it allows you to escape when you've truly been outflown otherwise.

Having full resource of your dial means you shouldn't be that predictable, so the barrel-roll ought to clear you in most situations.

But yes, it's a different play-style, and still perfectly viable.

I'm just imagining the other player somehow getting away from the net and Deathrain just running into it since it is 1 in front of him.

Considering most of the big builds seem to be Fat Han/dash/chirpy and their counters... Stealth Device might be better at the moment, but your mileage may vary depending on your local meta.

Deathrain plants and then BARREL ROLLs.

The Deathrain Dream:

Front fart conners, roll

next turn, either move up and conners out the back or sensor out a front fart again

Front fart conners, roll

next turn, either move up and conners out the back or sensor out a front fart again

Front fart conners, roll

next turn, either move up and conners out the back or sensor out a front fart again

How about

Vader

Expert handling

Title

Atc

Engine upgrade

Soontir

Title

Autothrusters

Ptl

Stealth device

Ogp with palp

Exactly one hundred. 3 actions on vader and 3 on soontir. palp help vader survive and to kill stuff. Soontir dont need help.

I'm just imagining the other player somehow getting away from the net and Deathrain just running into it since it is 1 in front of him.

Considering most of the big builds seem to be Fat Han/dash/chirpy and their counters... Stealth Device might be better at the moment, but your mileage may vary depending on your local meta.

He gets to barrel roll through so with sensible movement he should be fine.

Pred/lw, x1, atc, and engine is a great start for Vader.

I really want to make him work with the Emperor.

Something like...

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29

Lone Wolf 2

Advanced Targeting Computer 1

Engine Upgrade 4

TIE/x1 0

Ship Total: 36

Commander Kenkirk — VT-49 Decimator 44

Predator 3

Emperor Palpatine 8

Ysanne Isard 4

Engine Upgrade 4

Ship Total: 63