So can vader become new soontir?

Vader

ATC

X1

EU

PTL

Chipy

Ysanne

Gunner

Pred

EU

99 points total.

I wouldn't put PTL on Vader considering he already has two actions and the Advanceds ability to clear stress is laughable. Maybe if you put Tie mk2 on him, but even then, I'd rather have boost.

I'm looking forward to running a list with Phennir, Fel and Vader. So much Arc dodging.

Yea i also though that get rid of stress of advanced can be little tricky. I also though about another Predator, so i can have more rerolls.

Overall comparising vader to fel:

-vader hits harder (both 3 reds but vader have this crit all the time+predator)

-fell have better chance of evading hits (3 greens but fel got SD and Autos)

-vader got 2 more HP

-roughly the same arc dodge ability

-fel can better get rid of ptl stress.

Overall this list is more kill em fast or loose to long game.

I agree that PtL isn't the best EPT for the advanced due to the limited green, but as this is a two-ship list, lone wolf could be really useful. On the defensive side of things it's like always rolling 4 dice (unless you get all eyeballs and squigglies) and on the attack it's a mini-predator. Just make sure to always have a focus token.

hmm...lone wolf sounds really nice too. Gonna try it:)

Forget the large turret, embrace the speed!

I don't think Vader 'replaces' Fel. He has some advantages and disadvantages. He's more resilient to Vader crew and stress mechanics whereas Fel is ultimately harder to kill via straight on shooting (especially against enemy turrets---autothrusters makes sure he is very tough for Chiraneau, Han and co. to bring down).

The nice thing about Vader is his EPT is quite open. you could literally run him with any EPT and he would still be effective as long as he's got the ATC and engine upgrade. I think he's an excellent proton rocket delivery system too, but any missile can work effectively with him.

So all in all, he's a bit more versatile and the fact that he has an open dial (assuming you aren't stressing him) gives hiim lots of movement options compared to Fel using PtL. He does do slightly more damage I think overall, but of course he will almost always cost more points. I've been running both of them together though (since I still like Fel) along with a Tempest using accuracy corrector. Its not a super hard-tuned list, but its been fun!

I am also excited to run fel with adv vader...i have a concern that blount+adv homing will be a thing and ruin Fel's day though

blount really won't be. One advance missile crit isn't likely to do anything, least of all reliably (gotta get fel in arc, then draw something relevant)

the new meta boogie man is Conner Nets. Neither Vader of Fell can really do **** about them

With Vader, you're basically trading thrusts and maneuverability (or, if you use EU, durability because you won't be generating additional focus) for ATC and some green dice insurance

the new meta boogie man is Conner Nets. Neither Vader of Fell can really do **** about them

the new meta boogie man is Conner Nets. Neither Vader of Fell can really do **** about them

Only if you can land it on them. I haven't seen anyone using them yet, so maybe I'm naive, but the way it gets deployed means the only way to hit them with it is to land your ship with the target directly behind. So interceptors just have to make sure they don't approach in a way that an opponent's long straight move next turn leaves them conner net meat...

Deathrain...fires it out the front or rear arc....ooof

the new meta boogie man is Conner Nets. Neither Vader of Fell can really do **** about them

Only if you can land it on them. I haven't seen anyone using them yet, so maybe I'm naive, but the way it gets deployed means the only way to hit them with it is to land your ship with the target directly behind. So interceptors just have to make sure they don't approach in a way that an opponent's long straight move next turn leaves them conner net meat...

Deathrain...fires it out the front or rear arc....ooof

you don't have to land it on the ships since it triggers on any kind of overlap. If you have int agent (and know where they're going) then you're golden.

If you want guarantees to land it, it's best to drop it on the ship. Deathrain is definitely the punisher's way of handling that, but every single K-wing can already do it (thank you based Advanced Slam)

there's not much one can do about move + SLAM move + conner's except stand there slackjawed as the ace gets tangled and unceremoniously murdered. **** thing'll bring back multiple ship builds by itself (mines are an action, so is SLAM; l2block!)

Forget the large turret, embrace the speed!

Darth Vader (29)

Ruthlessness (3)

Proton Rockets (3)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

TIE/x1 (0)

Rexler Brath (37)

Push the Limit (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Assault Missiles (5)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Total: 93

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I think dropping the Assault missiles and throwing in an Academy Tie will be a lot more useful.

As far as the OP, I think loaded Vader (pred, ATC, EU) is superior to Soontir in every way. He's got superior firepower, better durability (even against turrets), and has the better dial. Once Soontir starts pushing he's stuck to green moves can never K-turn. Vader can K-turn, slow roll with a 1 bank, and 3 hard turn. If Soontir gets double stressed, he's basically a sitting duck. Not so much with Vader.

Against a turret all you have to do is grab your TL and Evade. Then on subsequent turns just keep evading as your second action. It will pretty much mimic ATs. Once the shields are down on the turret, Vaders ATC will start to take its toll.

The only advantage Soontir has is at range 3 where if he's turtled up is pretty much nigh unhittable. Still if Vader gets caught at range 3 and have focus evade, he's fairly hard to hit too. Also, Vader really relies on getting a TL to really do some damage, so that can limit is maneuverability.

Deathrain...fires it out the front or rear arc....ooof

you don't have to land it on the ships since it triggers on any kind of overlap. If you have int agent (and know where they're going) then you're golden.

If you want guarantees to land it, it's best to drop it on the ship. Deathrain is definitely the punisher's way of handling that, but every single K-wing can already do it (thank you based Advanced Slam)

there's not much one can do about move + SLAM move + conner's except stand there slackjawed as the ace gets tangled and unceremoniously murdered. **** thing'll bring back multiple ship builds by itself (mines are an action, so is SLAM; l2block!)

Yeah Deathrain.

I'll have to see advanced SLAM in action, I'm still optimistic that careful maneovering can keep you safe (especially near asteroids which will limit SLAM options)

There's also Emon. I forgot about him earlier.

you can't really out maneuver mines (they hit you before you activate)

the counter is careful positioning which involves use of ships or obstacles (not super feasible given how much vader/soonts hate obstacles) to block the bomber from reaching you (i.e, a lot more planning ahead and a lot less reactionary boost/roll), or to bring enough guns to drown the low agility bomber in red dice before it can activate next turn.

Ks and Punishers (except for thrusters) are stupid vulnerable to lots of shots, even at range 3 because their agility is so terrible. they go down real fast to voluminous firepower, which is kind of the exact thing that PWT + ace builds lack

You could try sectioning off your ace by using the fattie, but then you're exposing the fattie to dice that it hates

you can't really out maneuver mines (they hit you before you activate)

the counter is careful positioning which involves use of ships or obstacles (not super feasible given how much vader/soonts hate obstacles) to block the bomber from reaching you (i.e, a lot more planning ahead and a lot less reactionary boost/roll), or to bring enough guns to drown the low agility bomber in red dice before it can activate next turn.

That's what I meant

Asteroids are not bad if you leave yourself with more than one exit lane and there's not a bunch of ships nearby to block said exit lanes, but I hear ya.

I typically fly Fel/Vader in 3 ship builds. Not quite enough to 'drown' enemies in red dice, although I think Vessery with HLC works well alongside one or the other ace. I'm thinking either named Defender is gonna do well in the new meta. They aren't as vulnerable to getting connered and their HLC damage is solid. Still probably not enough to take out a k-wing before it can drop a conner though