So I'm relatively new to Rogue Trader, and I'm trying to work out the background for a campaign. I have a few questions I've been unable to answer and I was hoping that you fine folk could help.

Do the Great Navigator Houses have ships/fleets of their own? I know that page 11 of the Navis Primer says "they do not generally maintain the sort of visible power structures most other Imperial institutions rely upon [such as] fleets of starships bearing their livery", but I've seen allusions to cases where these enormously wealthy houses have done something of the sort.

In particular, I recall reading somewhere on these forums that the largest civilian fleet in the Imperium was owned by one of the Navis Nobilite Great Houses, and its number was 47 hulls. This information was linked to the Navis Primer , but no page number was given. Having just finished reading through the Navis Primer again for the third time looking for this information, I find myself at a loss.

It does not seem at all strange to me that a Navigator House might have at least two or three vessels of its own to facilitate the movement of its scions from one important task to another. Even just holding shares in different ventures across interstellar distances would require extensive travelling to attend shareholder meetings and the like. The ships wouldn't even need to be all that large or heavily armed. Travelling in a convoy with other vessels would provide significant protection against pirates, etc.

Given that a Navigator can add a whole profit factor (PF) or more to the Rogue Trader vessel by charting a new Warp route, having even just two or three Navigators charting two or three routes on board a Rogue Trader vessel per year... on top of the share the House would already have in the vessel... on top of the House's extensive investment portfolios... it seems ludicrous to me that they wouldn't even have one medium-sized ship of their own.

Are there rules surrounding the PF and ship points (SP) of organizations aside from Rogue Trader dynasties? Or maybe rules to use PF in lieu of SP for such organizations? Are there any examples anyone can point to that could help determining appropriate sizes/strengths of vessels or fleets?

Thanks!

Further to my above post, I found a few things:

1) The post I read about a Navigator house having the largest civilian fleet is here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/112744-maintenance-costs-of-starships/ Unfortunately, it really doesn't give a direct citation, and I've still been unable to find the corroborating passage.

2) On p. 91 of Into The Storm there is a piece of fictional correspondence that details how House Aleene (a Navigator House) "maintains" a highliner vessel called the Splendour Unknowing . If this isn't an example of outright ownership of a vessel by a Navigator house, I feel that it at least demonstrates a Navigator house having care and control of a space ship. It rendezvoused with a Rogue Trader vessel for the purpose of providing a new Navigator; given the sheer immensity of space it would be extraordinarily fortuitous for such a meeting to already be imminent given the timing of the previous Navigator's death and a new one's appearance.

Based on what I've read, I am inclined to believe that a Navigator house, if it doesn't have at least one disposable vessel of its own, is likely to hold sufficient share in several vessels so as to enable their scions to move about the galaxy. Which brings me back to how this is 90% conjecture, and I may merely be emphasizing the exceptions to the rule. Thus, my initial question stands: is it plausible/likely for Navigator houses to have their own ship(s)?

Yeah, that was me posting. I don't remember exactly where I read that, but I know that I did. I think it was Navis Primer. As far as the wealth of the Navis Houses goes, listed PFs in the core Acquisitions says Lesser Havis Houses have PF 100 while Illustrious Navis Houses have PF 130.

I would think the Nav houses could be the ones who would be running around

in the closest thing the 40k universes would have to an x-boat of Traveller.

Hop into a system; drop something off, then jet away on next errand,

hardy ever making planetfall.

Now 40k doesnt need x-boats proper, due to astropathy,

but a quickie errand service, for dropping off small packets

or new navs or new astropaths ? I could totally see that.

Orion Star Clipper, anyone . .. .

Yeah, that was me posting. I don't remember exactly where I read that, but I know that I did. I think it was Navis Primer. As far as the wealth of the Navis Houses goes, listed PFs in the core Acquisitions says Lesser Havis Houses have PF 100 while Illustrious Navis Houses have PF 130.

I don't suppose you would have a page number for me? Also, I'm not sure that I have that book. What is it's proper name, Core Acquisitions ?

I would think the Nav houses could be the ones who would be running around

in the closest thing the 40k universes would have to an x-boat of Traveller.

Hop into a system; drop something off, then jet away on next errand,

hardy ever making planetfall.

Now 40k doesnt need x-boats proper, due to astropathy,

but a quickie errand service, for dropping off small packets

or new navs or new astropaths ? I could totally see that.

Orion Star Clipper, anyone . .. .

Actually I made a modified star clipper for the Navigator House in question. I'm quite proud of it. It was one of the reasons why I wondered if the rules even allowed for it.

Thanks for the info.

I wouldn't put it past the Navigators to NOT have their own ships; they might even have a weakly enforced variant of the Decree Passive, that prevents the Ecclesiarchy from fielding "men at arms" (so they field the Adepta Sororitas because you don't tell the church what to do). In one simple way, the management of vessels is an expense; expenses the Houses need not deal with, if the Imperium, a Rogue Trader, or what not is willing to, in their place. Also, with their gene being recessive, and their level of needed skill being relatively high, and with the Imperium being SO huge, one has to figure how many Navigators are there, really?Do they have enough to man so many ships of the Imperium, of all the Rogue Traders, and all? If you aren't cheating, and using that Klenova Illegal-class drive, you MUST have a Navigator on your void-cruising ship, likely several, to rotate them out, and the Imperium has so many vessels, even when math sort of proves they wouldn't. I'm not certain many Houses could support "Navigator ships, just for them", and they make plenty of money using other people's, supplying their unique, critical trade, and possibly getting a cut of their employer's findings, at least in RT, when that's whom they work with. I think they would NOT have them, for themselves, much like many Inquisitors actually don't, even if they could. Just me, of course.

The description of Trade Wars in GW's d100 Inquisitor game does make it sound as if the Navigator Houses are doing quite a bit of merchant business by themselves, in addition to hiring their services out to others. I suppose it makes sense given the proximity. Going "indie", if you will.

"A Tradewar is a limited and strictly regimented form of warfare, formally declared between rival trading factions, which is permitted by the Administratum under the Navigator Conventions. The aim of the Convention is to reduce the overall damage to shipping and mercantile interests, as well as prevent rival factions from simply destroying one another. The rules of a Tradewar prescribe formal declarations of intent and restrict permissible targets. The Great Navigator Houses see Tradewar more as an extension of the customary means of competition between competing commercial interests, than as open warfare.

During a Tradewar, forces directly under the control of the warring factions are allowed to raid each others' shipping, attack important mercantile operations or destroy equipment owned by the opposition. Employees and declared members of rival houses become fair game for assassination attempts or direct attack, but violence cannot extend beyond the direct opposition, so subsidiaries and lesser Houses allied to the warring factions are theoretically immune to the effects of a Tradewar, though they are often dragged into direct conflict."

In addition to that, of course there is always the potential for a pleasure cruise as well, though at least in GW's material it sounds more like Navigators are either working, or hiding in their heavily fortified mansions ... both to avoid getting targeted by assassins working for a rival House, as well as to avoid drawing Inquisitorial scrutiny to their mutations.

Yeah, that was me posting. I don't remember exactly where I read that, but I know that I did. I think it was Navis Primer. As far as the wealth of the Navis Houses goes, listed PFs in the core Acquisitions says Lesser Havis Houses have PF 100 while Illustrious Navis Houses have PF 130.

I don't suppose you would have a page number for me? Also, I'm not sure that I have that book. What is it's proper name, Core Acquisitions ?

I would think the Nav houses could be the ones who would be running around

in the closest thing the 40k universes would have to an x-boat of Traveller.

Hop into a system; drop something off, then jet away on next errand,

hardy ever making planetfall.

Now 40k doesnt need x-boats proper, due to astropathy,

but a quickie errand service, for dropping off small packets

or new navs or new astropaths ? I could totally see that.

Orion Star Clipper, anyone . .. .

Actually I made a modified star clipper for the Navigator House in question. I'm quite proud of it. It was one of the reasons why I wondered if the rules even allowed for it.

Thanks for the info.

No, I don't have a page number for the navigator fleet. That would be exact, and I don't remember exactly. Core acquisitions, also called page 270 in the basic rules book, is exact.

Yeah, that was me posting. I don't remember exactly where I read that, but I know that I did. I think it was Navis Primer. As far as the wealth of the Navis Houses goes, listed PFs in the core Acquisitions says Lesser Havis Houses have PF 100 while Illustrious Navis Houses have PF 130.

I don't suppose you would have a page number for me? Also, I'm not sure that I have that book. What is it's proper name, Core Acquisitions ?

I would think the Nav houses could be the ones who would be running around

in the closest thing the 40k universes would have to an x-boat of Traveller.

Hop into a system; drop something off, then jet away on next errand,

hardy ever making planetfall.

Now 40k doesnt need x-boats proper, due to astropathy,

but a quickie errand service, for dropping off small packets

or new navs or new astropaths ? I could totally see that.

Orion Star Clipper, anyone . .. .

Actually I made a modified star clipper for the Navigator House in question. I'm quite proud of it. It was one of the reasons why I wondered if the rules even allowed for it.

Thanks for the info.

No, I don't have a page number for the navigator fleet. That would be exact, and I don't remember exactly. Core acquisitions, also called page 270 in the basic rules book, is exact.

Ahh, table 9-34: Profit and Power on p. 270 confirms the 100 - 130 PF figure. That's far in excess of planetary nobles and even wealthy rogue traders! I had overlooked this until now, thank you!

I don't suppose you would have a page number for me?

Core book, p316:

Thank you for that. I've been looking for that citation off and on for months. "Civil fleets vary in size from a single vessel to several dozen. One of the largest is that of the Navigator family Redondo, numbering forty-seven registered interstellar ships."