Hey guys!

I, like most of you all, love the Empire's poster child for under achievement. The Tie Defender has held a special place in my heart ever since I one-shotted my friend's Corran with Rexler Brath's HLC.

Now as we all know, the Tie Defender was outfitted as standard with a pair of ion cannons in addition to its primary laser array. In this vein, I was thinking of a way to make the Defender into a control ship. I love the idea of blazing away with ion cannons, and keeping an enemy vessel pinned down for an entire match, but this seems like such a waste of a 30 point ship. Thus, I present the answer to our beloved Defender's issues: a missile slot upgrade.

Now you may be asking yourself: "What an idiot, why would he ramble on and on about cannons and then propose a missile slot upgrade?"

So, ladies and gentlemen, Aces and Academy pilots alike, I give you the Advanced Armament Refit!

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Adv. Armament Refit [Missile]

T.I.E Defender Only

Whenever a [cannon] secondary weapon instructs you to cancel die results, do not cancel those die results.

1 point

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This upgrade allows our Defender's to become the Ion spewing death machines the galaxy's greatest star-fighter, as it should be.

By using the missile slot, the Title is left open, and available for something relating to the pilots themselves.

Thoughts, comments, or constructive criticism?

This could be cool. More often than not on 3 dice you are sneaking one damage through but the potential for extra is enticing at the cost. I like that it doesn't steal the title or all too desired mod slot.

Forget ion, take tractor beam. Dealing no damage is clearly part of why it costs 1 point so if it can deal up to 3 and still do whatever is worth 1 point and a cannon slot it'd be nutso.

I think it'd honestly just be too **** strong. Suddenly you have no downside to taking ion cannon since you do the same damage and get a free ion and still no extra range agility? It also just ignores standard limitation on cannons that they use to balance them so they have to design cannons differently to avoid them being broken on the defender.

I like it. But as stated the new Tractor beam will break this for just one point.

How about this:

title:

Advanced Weapons Control

Tie Defender only

2 pts

Primary Weapons may be linked to Cannons that (instruct you to cancel all die results). All primary weapon attacks earn the special result of the cannon that is linked. These attacks count as primary weapon attacks.

It fits the fluff better and makes more sense. It's also nerfed because your secondary bonus is cancelled.

Whatever the Defender fix turns out to be, it absolutely must *not* cost any additional points! The Defender is already woefully overpriced - it's one of its biggest flaws. Adding more does not solve the problem.

I think that there would have to be something to actually fix the problem of the defender, although seeing a card such as Adv. Armament Refit in addition to the fix would be welcome.

title:

Advanced Weapons Control......

I think proper wording would be more like:

After performing a primary weapon attack that hits, you may immediately perform an attack with a secondary weapon on the defender. Do not roll any combat dice and the defender is hit by this attack, even if he does not suffer any damage.

This way, you still apply the effect (and 1 damage if ion cannon), but does not let pure damage cannons like HLC get abused. It's still dependent on the primary attack hitting.

This is actually pretty elegant and clever. It would also allow people to at least attempt some imperial control lists between ion and flechette. I think the twin ion was probably a good enough start, but this would definitely be cool.

Or don't fudge with existing stuff and release a tie defender only cannon that does 3 attack at range 1 to 3, and inflicts 1 ion, but doesn't cancel dice. It could be costed at 3 or 4 points for balancing reasons

My take:

Also good for Lambda and future Assault Gunboats and TIE Hunters.

My take:

Also good for Lambda and future Assault Gunboats and TIE Hunters.

I'd never trade my Tie Mark 2 with anything. It is a good idea but not as a modification.

It should be a missile-refit or a title.

Nope. The correct fix is still:

+

Perhaps those cards go in the wrong direction, one I'd just massively overpowered while the other honestly doesn't do enough to fix the defender while exacerbating it's most crippling flaw, cost. Honestly one of the best fixes for the defender has shown up in the Tie Advanced Prototype, gaining an evade token when you take a target lock would very much help keep the defender in the fight while keeping it appropriately aggressive

one I'd just massively overpowered while the other honestly doesn't do enough to fix the defender while exacerbating it's most crippling flaw, cost.

Obviously they cancel each other out then!

I dunno. 3 deltas that were capable of dealing full damage AND an ion token sounds pretty powerful to me. Would that be enough? I think maybe it would. Well, maybe it should be like the tie/x1 and give free points for a cannon. Vessery would be an outright beast.

Personally I want defenders to fly like aggressors. It won't happen, but if they could take something like a free boost action (while not actually having the boost action, ie no AT's) after executing a move.... that would be just sweet.

I have a simple idea,

Glue a tie fighter to each side and call it Darth hideous, it has 9 atks 1 agi 3 shi 9 hull for 50 points. For every 3 points of damage remove a fighter and increase its agi by 2.

Nope. The correct fix is still:

As much as I love the Defender, I can't agree with these. The title is overpowered in the extreme, and the execution of the LIC feels clunky.

Here's what I'd suggest for the Defender:

'Onyx Squadron Elite'

Title - TIE Defender Only

0pts

If your Pilot Skill is "5" or lower, increase your Pilot Skill by 2.

Once per round, after executing a green manoeuvre, you may either perform a free Boost action, or recover 1 shield.

Linked Cannon System

Cannon - TIE Defender Only. Limited.

1pt

Your upgrade bar gains one Cannon icon.

When performing a primary weapon attack, if the attack hits, you may apply any non-damage effects from an equipped Cannon upgrade card without cancelling attack dice.

'Fluff' for the Defender is the main inspiration for these abilities (a dangerous precedent, perhaps):

-Allegedly the best pilots in the Imperial fleet, it seems thematically flawed that their generic PS values are lower when compared with the generics for every other ship besides the TIE Fighter and Interceptor. At the same time, I don't think a base PS10 would be reasonable, hence the restriction to the non-named pilots.

-Repeatedly the Defender is described as being both fast and agile, while also having rapidly regenerating shields that did not overly tax propulsion. The second ability of the title addresses this, allowing the Defender to go 'flat-out' with a Boost or help address it's relative vulnerability in combat - but not both at once. Restricting this to green manoeuvres keeps shield regeneration in line with R2-D2, and removes the possibility of Autothrusters by not adding the Boost action to the action bar, in aid of maintaining balance and not competing with the MkII Engine.

-The 'linked' cannon is listed as a standard configuration, so to my mind it makes sense to allow it to be equipped without using up the cannon slot, and without spending many additional points over the cost of the cannon itself. It makes Flechette or Ion cannons a viable selection for Defenders, without affecting the Heavy Laser or Mangler choices.

I feel that these abilities as they stand may well push the Defender too far in the other direction, but they seem to fit well thematically and so would be my choice for a starting baseline in developing a fix for the ship.

Title: You win!

(Unique)

TIE Defender only.

You win unless opponent also has this upgrade or Missile Boat is in play.

Here you go. That's the fluffiest fix of all.

Title: You win!

(Unique)

TIE Defender only.

You win unless opponent also has this upgrade or Missile Boat is in play.

Here you go. That's the fluffiest fix of all.

I think it would be more constructive to limit discussion to sensible solutions.

I've edited my post to alter the Linked Cannon upgrade in order to allow more variety.

Title: You win!

(Unique)

TIE Defender only.

You win unless opponent also has this upgrade or Missile Boat is in play.

Here you go. That's the fluffiest fix of all.

I think it would be more constructive to limit discussion to sensible solutions.

This thread, and threads like it, aren't really constructive regardless of how grounded or fantastic the content is.

Moreover, even if I agreed with you, GrimmyV is summarizing an unfortunately large portion of the conversation around the Defender.

Thank you. Now maybe we can talk about real solutions to getting the Defender flying, like what tactics to use with the currently available upgrades or lists that may have had some success in the past and possible tweaks to make those more competitive.

My opinion is that the Defender is a fine ship that is too expensive for most people's sensibilities. Maybe it's those sensibilities that should change instead. Not that everyone needs to fly Defenders, but I like em.

Why not a Chardaan refit type of solution? Although, for the Defender to be competitive I think the cost needs to go down at least 6 points. At that number you would be able to fly 4, with TIE mk II, for 100 points. Good, but hardly overpowered.

Why not a Chardaan refit type of solution? Although, for the Defender to be competitive I think the cost needs to go down at least 6 points.

It's 2-3 points for the generics, and 0-1 for the named pilots.

At that number you would be able to fly 4, with TIE mk II, for 100 points. Good, but hardly overpowered.

Sorry, what? The TIE Defender is the most durable small ship in the game, by a healthy margin. Four TIE Defenders in a 100-point list are about as hard to kill as an 8-ship TIE swarm, but offer about half again as much offense. A four-ship Defender swarm would be a nightmare for game balance.

This thread, and threads like it, aren't really constructive regardless of how grounded or fantastic the content is.

Moreover, even if I agreed with you, GrimmyV is summarizing an unfortunately large portion of the conversation around the Defender.

Arn't they? I don't see how posting suggestions for improvements is detrimental to the forum or the game. I'm not expecting it to serve as a direct line to FFG's developers, but at the same time I highly doubt they ignore the forums entirely when it comes to rules design.

So far the only suggestion for the Defender that I've seen to be comparable to the 'I Win' title Grimmy suggested is the '+2 shield, +1 agility, boost+evade, free ion cannon' title, which is undoubtably far too powerful, especially for 0pts. Other suggestions, though (and I would hope mine could be included) are mostly reasonably thought out and have a mind towards improving the Defender's lot without going too far.

I like the Defender a lot, and have flown it a fair number of times. What is clear is that, for all the perks it does have (decent attack/HP, white 4k, reasonable dial), it is still overcosted for what it can do, especially the generics who are not realistically worth taking.