does this mean it and the cards that come with it are tournament legal as per the statement, if its in stores its legal?
or do we need to wait for it to come of the upcoming page altogether?
So the Raider shows as: In stores now
Here in Canada, the raider has a street date of the 14th. My friend saw it in store, but couldn't buy it.
FFG has never really been very clear about exactly what constitutes 'Released'. Having the ships for sale at GenCon wasn't considered Released, and IIRC pre-release events like Assault at Imdaar Alpha, don't count either so even if you won a ship there, they weren't legal to use in a tournament.
But if the upcoming page is what's considered official or a news story... I dunno.
FFG has never really been very clear about exactly what constitutes 'Released'. Having the ships for sale at GenCon wasn't considered Released, and IIRC pre-release events like Assault at Imdaar Alpha, don't count either so even if you won a ship there, they weren't legal to use in a tournament.
But if the upcoming page is what's considered official or a news story... I dunno.
it is quite clear. When it says Available in stores which usually accompanies an article release .
When it says Available in stores which usually accompanies an article release .
When what says that. The news page or the upcoming page.
When the product says In Stores Now which it does right now. Raider is now legal.
Saw the box marked Imperial Raider at the FLGS today at lunch. All 4 raiders inside have already been claimed, so the owner wasn't in a hurry to open it up just to let me look at them. I should be able to see one tonight.
When the product says In Stores Now which it does right now. Raider is now legal.
Ok, and when did FFG ever specify that? Because if we go off of the Upcoming page alone, then right now the only legal product for X-Wing is the raider. That's the only thing listed there with a status of In Stores.
Of course it would be silly to claim the X-Wing or Tie Interceptor isn't legal. But based on your logic that's the case.
FFG does use street dates, and there's been a number of cases in which a LGS has product but can't sell it... Even though the upcoming page says in stores now. If the Raider has a street date of Aug 14th, which at least one person said it does. Then it may not be legal yet.
The whole point is that Released is at least somewhat undefined, it's like porn, I can't say what it is, but I know it when I see it.
Does it really really matter? If you have a tournament it isn't a premier FFG event. As such the TO can rule it and it's components not legal for a tournament if it is currently not available in your local market. That's fair for everyone in terms of having a level playing field.
This stuff is not complicated.
I got my radier today. It's great. I can't imagine anyone telling me the upgrades are not legal to play....
The whole point is that Released is at least somewhat undefined, it's like porn, I can't say what it is, but I know it when I see it.
Actually, that reference comes from the U.S. Supreme Court, and the reference was to "obscenity," not porn. The quote was from Justice Stewart in the case Jacobellis v. Ohio, where Justice Stewart, in attempting to define obscenity, stated: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." (He was referencing the movie The Lovers, a 1958 French file directed by Louis Malle.)
However, point taken. Released is somewhat undefined, but easy enough to know when it is released. Between the products page no longer saying "in development" and the Upcoming page saying "in stores now", along with it being reported to being in stores and in peoples hands other than from GenCon, I would say it is considered released.
Bottom line, though, is that it will be up to each tournament coordinator to decide, and their opinion is the rule.
When the product says In Stores Now which it does right now. Raider is now legal.
Ok, and when did FFG ever specify that? Because if we go off of the Upcoming page alone, then right now the only legal product for X-Wing is the raider. That's the only thing listed there with a status of In Stores.
Of course it would be silly to claim the X-Wing or Tie Interceptor isn't legal. But based on your logic that's the case.
That makes zero sense. Anyway, not worth arguing about. It's out and in peoples hands now.
Does it really really matter?
No not really. But it would be nice to know what actually constitutes[
Bottom line, though, is that it will be up to each tournament coordinator to decide, and their opinion is the rule.
See that's not really true, to a point. For premier level events released is released and the TO doesn't get a say in it.
Lets say Wave X was in stores, and there's a regional tournament being held this weekend, but not every store in the area has gotten their shipment yet, so some won't have Wave 7 for sale until next week.
If Wave X is considered released then per the tournament rules that wave can be used at that event, and the TO can't stop those who happen to have the ships from using them.
It's out and in peoples hands now.
Again that's the whole point. It's not in everyone's hands yet. There are some stores who won't sell it until tomorrow. Maybe those stores are mistaken, or maybe the ones who have sold them already are breaking the street date.
Edited by VanorDMthe reason I ask is a store tournament this weekend and I want to use my advanced title
the reason I ask is a store tournament this weekend and I want to use my advanced title
If anyone tells you that you can't, punch them in the face. Call me if you need any backup. I've seen a lot of movies; I know how to fight.
the reason I ask is a store tournament this weekend and I want to use my advanced title
My guess we'll have an 'Raider is released' article tomorrow which should mean anything that comes with it is defiantly legal.
The tournament rules are rather clear on this. Any product is legal once released. The issue is as I said, they don't actually define what released means.
My raider was delivered, but I am not home...there is a great sadness in the force. Well, at least a great sadness in me that I am not there to open it.
Soon...
So its officially legal for this weekends tournies! Great article, btw!!
Doesn't the TO and not ffg decide what is and is not legal?
Doesn't the TO and not ffg decide what is and is not legal?
No.
In North America, products are legal upon their release. Competitors outside
North America should check with their TO to determine which products are
tournament legal
Doesn't the TO and not ffg decide what is and is not legal?
No.
In North America, products are legal upon their release. Competitors outside
North America should check with their TO to determine which products are
tournament legal
Honestly, unless you are doing an epic tournament, all the raider does is provide some juice to the Tie Advanced, and helps the Defender a little bit. I hope everyone brings their new Ties to the tournament this weekend. We all know what is coming, and for those of us who are not flying Tie's and we know kinda what to expect. Mean while, our quick to fire may struggle as they will have little or no experience flying them. I much rather run a Wave 4 list that I have 6 months of practice with versus a bunch of small ships that I have had less than 72 hours.
Honestly, unless you are doing an epic tournament, all the raider does is provide some juice to the Tie Advanced, and helps the Defender a little bit. I hope everyone brings their new Ties to the tournament this weekend. We all know what is coming, and for those of us who are not flying Tie's and we know kinda what to expect. Mean while, our quick to fire may struggle as they will have little or no experience flying them. I much rather run a Wave 4 list that I have 6 months of practice with versus a bunch of small ships that I have had less than 72 hours.
What about someone with experience running lots of TIE swarms?
Honestly, unless you are doing an epic tournament, all the raider does is provide some juice to the Tie Advanced, and helps the Defender a little bit. I hope everyone brings their new Ties to the tournament this weekend. We all know what is coming, and for those of us who are not flying Tie's and we know kinda what to expect. Mean while, our quick to fire may struggle as they will have little or no experience flying them. I much rather run a Wave 4 list that I have 6 months of practice with versus a bunch of small ships that I have had less than 72 hours.
What about someone with experience running lots of TIE swarms?