Probably going to sound like an idiot but on pg5 of the raider rulebook under 'Raider attacks' it states;

'during the combat phase the raider may perform up to two attacks with its primary weapon and one attack with each of its secondary weapons.'

On the ship card for the fore section it then states;

'Once per round, after performing a primary weapon attack, you may spend two energy to perform another primary weapon attack'

Now if I'm reading this right the raider can attack, attack again (as per rulebook) and then spend two energy to attack again (ship card ability) for a total of three primary weapon attacks per round?!? Is that legit or am going awry somewhere? I've unfortunately never played an epic game but I am hoping to remedy that sharpish.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

The Raider rulebook is referring to the two attacks allowed by the ship card--one attack, and another if you pay the energy cost. The Raider cannot make three attacks per round with its primary.

I figured that seemed a little insane but by reading it with no other epic material to refer to it deffinately leads you down the fantasy dreamland path of three attacks per round!

Cheers for the clarification!

Three primary attacks plus an additional attack per secondary - overkill much?!?

It's just as Vorpal Sword says, one primary attack, then spend energy for the second attack.

Secondary weapons on huge ships give huge ships the ability to make another attack unlike secondary weapons on standard ships which are used in place of your attack. The energy mechanic is the restriction for limiting the number of attacks huge ships make with secondary weapons.

As for primary weapons as stated above you get only 1 primary weapons attack but may spend energy to make another primary weapon attack right after.

What about this scenario?

-perform first primary attack

-pay cost to perform second primary attack

-shoot with all hardpoint secondary weapons

-let's say the last one misses its mark

-gunner triggers for a third primary attack, the last allowed for the Raider during this round.

What about this scenario?

-perform first primary attack

-pay cost to perform second primary attack

-shoot with all hardpoint secondary weapons

-let's say the last one misses its mark

-gunner triggers for a third primary attack, the last allowed for the Raider during this round.

That'll do it

And Vader trigger after every shot.

And Vader trigger after every shot.

That's going to sting a bit

Unlimited POWA!

Can the Raider shoot its primary weapon with arc on the aft section?

Can the Raider shoot its primary weapon with arc on the aft section?

No, the primary weapon is mounted on the fore section.

Probably going to sound like an idiot but on pg5 of the raider rulebook under 'Raider attacks' it states;

'during the combat phase the raider may perform up to two attacks with its primary weapon and one attack with each of its secondary weapons.'

On the ship card for the fore section it then states;

'Once per round, after performing a primary weapon attack, you may spend two energy to perform another primary weapon attack'

Now if I'm reading this right the raider can attack, attack again (as per rulebook) and then spend two energy to attack again (ship card ability) for a total of three primary weapon attacks per round?!? Is that legit or am going awry somewhere? I've unfortunately never played an epic game but I am hoping to remedy that sharpish.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

Sorry for the necro... I just got a new Raider, I read the rules last night and I had my first couple of games today.

I got utterly shocked when my opponent told me I couldn't perform 3 primary weapon attacks. I know it's the general consensus that you can perform 1 attack, and then spend 2 energy to perform a second one, but that's not what's actually written in the rules. The rules say: follow the rulebook. Then, if a card contradicts the rulebook follow the card. As stated in the rulebook, the Raider may perform 2 primary weapon attacks. As stated in the card, after a primary weapon attack the Raider may spend 2 energy to perform another primary weapon attack. This adds up to three, rules as written.

I'm pretty sure that the intention was to make the Raider be able to perform 2 primary attacks maximum, and this is how I played today and how I will keep playing it, but has this been FAQd (couldn't find it)? If not, it should be, because... you know... everyone is doing it wrong!

I'm pretty sure that the intention was to make the Raider be able to perform 2 primary attacks maximum, and this is how I played today and how I will keep playing it, but has this been FAQd (couldn't find it)? If not, it should be, because... you know... everyone is doing it wrong!

Doesn't need to be FAQ'd. The Raider has a lovely little "Once per round" clause at the start of it's ability.

I'm pretty sure that the intention was to make the Raider be able to perform 2 primary attacks maximum, and this is how I played today and how I will keep playing it, but has this been FAQd (couldn't find it)? If not, it should be, because... you know... everyone is doing it wrong!

Doesn't need to be FAQ'd. The Raider has a lovely little "Once per round" clause at the start of it's ability.

How does that contradict anything I said?

Rulebook says 2 attacks. Card says after one attack you can perform another one spending 2 energy (once per turn). This makes 3 attacks as it is written.

Rulebook says 2 when using the ability. 1 from standard rules. 1 from ability. 1+1=2

Rulebook says 2 when using the ability. 1 from standard rules. 1 from ability. 1+1=2

That's not what my rulebook says. I understand this is what it wants to say, but what it says is this:

"during the combat phase the raider may perform up to two attacks with its primary weapon"

No mention to any ability anywhere.

It seems pretty simple

The Huge Ship rules states:

"During the Combat phase, each huge ship may perform one attack with its primary weapon and may perform one attack with each of its secondary weapons."

You can only spend the 2 energy once per round, and only after performing a primary attack, so the ability doesn't get a second go. And the rules insert does say "up to 2 attacks".

Seems to me that the one attack it's normally allowed, plus the one granted by spending the energy makes 2 attacks.

It seems pretty simple

The Huge Ship rules states:

"During the Combat phase, each huge ship may perform one attack with its primary weapon and may perform one attack with each of its secondary weapons."

You can only spend the 2 energy once per round, and only after performing a primary attack, so the ability doesn't get a second go. And the rules insert does say "up to 2 attacks".

Seems to me that the one attack it's normally allowed, plus the one granted by spending the energy makes 2 attacks.

Yep, that's if you read the Huge Ships rules, but the little rulebook that comes with the Raider has a different text in it. The fact that the ability doesn't get a second go is clear. The rules insert says "up to two attacks", but then the Raider card adds an extra one, overriding the rules as cards do, which, as it is written, would make for a total of 3 attacks if you follow this sequence:

1. Perform a primary weapon attack

2. Perform second priomary weapon attack because the rulebook says "during the combat phase the raider may perform up to two attacks with its primary weapon"

3. Since I just performed a primary weapon attack, I trigger the Raider card, spend 2 energy, and perform another primary attack. Since this effect comes from a card it overrides what the rulebook says (see Golden Rules)

(I'm not saying the Raider should have 3 attacks, I'm saying the rules are not well written in this one particular case.)

Rulebook says 2 when using the ability. 1 from standard rules. 1 from ability. 1+1=2

That's not what my rulebook says. I understand this is what it wants to say, but what it says is this:

"during the combat phase the raider may perform up to two attacks with its primary weapon"

No mention to any ability anywhere.

It says up to two. If it says up to, it also means no more than 2. So it must be including the one from the ships ability. Anything else if wishful thinking.

And while I remember, the primary attacks use the front arc. It was another common discussion with the Raider, if it could use the rear arcs.

It seems pretty simple

The Huge Ship rules states:

"During the Combat phase, each huge ship may perform one attack with its primary weapon and may perform one attack with each of its secondary weapons."

You can only spend the 2 energy once per round, and only after performing a primary attack, so the ability doesn't get a second go. And the rules insert does say "up to 2 attacks".

Seems to me that the one attack it's normally allowed, plus the one granted by spending the energy makes 2 attacks.

Yep, that's if you read the Huge Ships rules, but the little rulebook that comes with the Raider has a different text in it. The fact that the ability doesn't get a second go is clear. The rules insert says "up to two attacks", but then the Raider card adds an extra one, overriding the rules as cards do, which, as it is written, would make for a total of 3 attacks if you follow this sequence:

1. Perform a primary weapon attack

2. Perform second priomary weapon attack because the rulebook says "during the combat phase the raider may perform up to two attacks with its primary weapon"

3. Since I just performed a primary weapon attack, I trigger the Raider card, spend 2 energy, and perform another primary attack. Since this effect comes from a card it overrides what the rulebook says (see Golden Rules)

(I'm not saying the Raider should have 3 attacks, I'm saying the rules are not well written in this one particular case.)

As StephenEsven pointed out, your point 2 above is just wishful thinking, because if you do that, then you're performing up to 3 attacks, which is not what the rules insert says at all.

This one was hashed out a while ago and the popular consensus was that it was not written very well at all as it created a fair amount of confusion at the time. I think there may have been an email repost stating that you got just the one standard attack and then one for the ability.

This may help to illustrate their logic:

And from the associated article:

"Any remaining energy can be saved or spent to recover shields or to allow the ship to fire its primary weapon a second time. Altogether, this means that you can bring an astonishing measure of firepower to bear against a single enemy, especially if you can catch it in the sweet spot where your fore and aft firing arcs overlap. Two shots from a four-attack die primary weapon, one from your forward-mounted Quad Laser Cannons , and two from a pair of aft-mounted Ion Cannon Batteries? That's more than enough to cripple the Millennium Falcon or pretty much any other Rebel ship."

Seems like one standard and one ability-based attack to me.

It seems pretty simple

The Huge Ship rules states:

"During the Combat phase, each huge ship may perform one attack with its primary weapon and may perform one attack with each of its secondary weapons."

You can only spend the 2 energy once per round, and only after performing a primary attack, so the ability doesn't get a second go. And the rules insert does say "up to 2 attacks".

Seems to me that the one attack it's normally allowed, plus the one granted by spending the energy makes 2 attacks.

Yep, that's if you read the Huge Ships rules, but the little rulebook that comes with the Raider has a different text in it. The fact that the ability doesn't get a second go is clear. The rules insert says "up to two attacks", but then the Raider card adds an extra one, overriding the rules as cards do, which, as it is written, would make for a total of 3 attacks if you follow this sequence:

1. Perform a primary weapon attack

2. Perform second priomary weapon attack because the rulebook says "during the combat phase the raider may perform up to two attacks with its primary weapon"

3. Since I just performed a primary weapon attack, I trigger the Raider card, spend 2 energy, and perform another primary attack. Since this effect comes from a card it overrides what the rulebook says (see Golden Rules)

(I'm not saying the Raider should have 3 attacks, I'm saying the rules are not well written in this one particular case.)

As StephenEsven pointed out, your point 2 above is just wishful thinking, because if you do that, then you're performing up to 3 attacks, which is not what the rules insert says at all.

This one was hashed out a while ago and the popular consensus was that it was not written very well at all as it created a fair amount of confusion at the time. I think there may have been an email repost stating that you got just the one standard attack and then one for the ability.

This may help to illustrate their logic:

And from the associated article:

"Any remaining energy can be saved or spent to recover shields or to allow the ship to fire its primary weapon a second time. Altogether, this means that you can bring an astonishing measure of firepower to bear against a single enemy, especially if you can catch it in the sweet spot where your fore and aft firing arcs overlap. Two shots from a four-attack die primary weapon, one from your forward-mounted Quad Laser Cannons , and two from a pair of aft-mounted Ion Cannon Batteries? That's more than enough to cripple the Millennium Falcon or pretty much any other Rebel ship."

Seems like one standard and one ability-based attack to me.

I had read that article too. I know what the rules are meant to say, and how it is supposed to play. But what the rules actually say is something different. I know what the rules insert says, but again, the rulebook states quite clearly that cards can override rules in the rulebook (it's in the Golden Rules, 1st page of the new rules set if I'm not mistaken), that's why I think your argument is invalid. My point 2 is not wishful thinking, is what the rules inset is telling me I can do. But I'm happy we agree that the rules are not very well written at all, this is where I was going with my post

Raider can attack once for free with its primary, once with all equipped secondary weapons and once again with its primary weapon, spending two energy to do so.

The rulebook is stating that the Raider is capable of performing two primary weapon attacks in a single round. This is true. Once as normal and once using its ability.

I'm with Sabier on this.

If the Raider rules said it can attack once with its primary and once with any secondaries, but the pilot ability was still present, we would obviously accept that the pilot ability overrides the Raider rules, which override the normal ship rules.

If the Raider rules were as they are but the pilot card had no ability, we would still accept that the Raider can attack twice, with the Raider rules overriding the normal ship rules.

With both the Raider rules overriding the normal ship rules and the pilot ability overriding the Raider rules, you can make an argument about RAW, even if we accept it's not RAI.

With both the Raider rules overriding the normal ship rules and the pilot ability overriding the Raider rules, you can make an argument about RAW...

You can make an argument about literally anything. That doesn't make it a good argument.

You and Sabier both acknowledge that it's clear what the rules mean. That is, even setting aside the possibility of FAQ entries or email clarifications, it's clear from the available text that the Raider gets one attack with its primary weapon and can pay energy to make one additional attack. There's no need to drag intent into it, because you have to twist the rulebook pretty far to argue that it creates an exception to the usual attack sequence.