Looked and might have overlooked this somewhere. And I get that the career feeling is more of an overall feeling of the default mode for the character (referencing Han Solo and his default outlook). I get it, but there are a lot of things that have come out since the beginning (not that I or any of my players can really claim that as the reason, but we certainly have not had all the books).

Is there a system in place so that someone could change careers at some point? Obviously, there would need to be limits, because if you could do it willy nilly it would make buying talent trees easier. But if a character has really thought about it and now has shed his smuggler past and is embracing his role in the Rebellion or as a Jedi, can a character change careers?

If there is nothing officially, how do you handle it? Do you take away career dots and add new ones without removing training or giving any benefit? Do you strip them of some of the things they have learned to do previously because they have not been practicing it and have lost it? Do you handle it all through story and just have them create a new character sheet?

Is there a system in place so that someone could change careers at some point?

It's called beg your GM to let you respec. That is all. The game is balanced around each character having one immutable career.

You can access 3 career specialties once exceeded you lose access to some of the abilities of the career you dropped to take the new one.

Is there a reason you want to rewrite your original character?

That was what I was gathering, but I wasn't sure if this was addressed in some late rulebook I had not seen.

I can do some handwavium, but I wanted to make sure prior to embarking on that journey...

We're still discussing it. As I started considering it, I wasn't sure best how to handle it and could see that someone like Wedge Antilles might have started off somewhere way out of the AoR core, but should solidly have a career there. All of it is learnable, and I am trying to get him to keep that aspect of it. If he comes back with a strong enough reasoning for it though I wanted to consider my options. As that person is also talking to another player about it, I am concerned that one may try to go one direction and the other a completely different direction. If too much happens, we will just gracefully close out the current campaign and reboot with new characters. They really don't have a super long time invested in them and that may be the best answer... open it to all CRBs, and if you want to play you at least have to have that CRB... I'll pick up the extra expansions, but I want them to have the book they are basing the character out of.

You can access 3 career specialties once exceeded you lose access to some of the abilities of the career you dropped to take the new one.

Is there a reason you want to rewrite your original character?

There was a rule in the beta like this that was later removed in one of the beta updates. You can now take as may specializations you can afford, regardless of career.

I think if you think of careers as less like classes or jobs and more like character types or character origins , you might have more success. Specialization reflects what the character is training and working in at the time, while career reflects the things he's been doing for years and the mindset and lifestyle he's had.

I have a feeling you're under the impression that you can't buy specs outside your career. Not true, you can buy anything you want, at any time, it just costs 10XP more than a spec in your career*.

I've let my players respec, especially early in the campaign. My only stipulation is that they have to keep something they've used (e.g.: having a rank in Medicine and using it in game means a respec has to include a rank of Medicine).

But after a while, I don't think it's necessary to respec at all (except for maybe Talents they bought last session but haven't used yet). The player can buy any new spec tree they want , they don't need to "change careers". If you've been a smuggler, and now you're a bounty hunter, all that smuggling XP might still be handy as you become a Bounty Hunter-Assassin.

* I've been tempted to reduce this cost considerably and make it nominal for "in-career" and nominal+10 for out-of-career. The only thing to try to avoid is things like cherry-picking cheap Grit or something, but if somebody has purchased most of the Talents in their existing spec(s) I might drop the cost to 5XP or something.

The only reason you would ever need to change careers would be to access signature abilities. In that case, I might consider a respec so long as every effort is made to ensure that nothing has really changed about the character's skill ranks and/or talents.

As whafrog also notes, early on. This is more of a gamer custom, but most GMs are open to this if you, after running a character for a session, realize that it's not really working out. YMMV.

Apart from that, I don't see the point. Now that F&D is out,, the cycle is complete and you can purchase almost anything you need with XP, so why give up a long and rich character history? The smuggler who embraces the Jedi way and gains FSE and some spec out of F&D is going to be a much more interesting character (IMHO) than a F&D Jedi who is nigh useless without the Force...

No, I know you can buy everything outside of spec. This is more the foundation of the career.

To not throw my player under the bus, I will use the following:

Human Explorer Big-Game Hunter

Loves to hunt big game. Adds in some Hired Gun specializations as well.

Zero contact with the Rebellion, until Bad Things happened to his family and his Obligation by the Empire.

Joins the Rebellion. For a time is just a rookie learning to do things.

Eventually though he is a pilot full time and running a squadron. He doesn't even think of Big-Game hunts anymore because it only makes him mad at the Empire.

He pilots (both), he fires gunnery, he advances in his career as a Rebel.

Meta-thinking, he has a new Big Game to hunt, the Empire. In character, he no longer thinks of himself as a Hunter. He is a rebel commander and his people's lives matter, not the thrill of the hunt where he wants a trophy. He doesn't even put kills on his ship because he doesn't think that way anymore.

His career is obviously not a Big-Game Hunter in a long time, yet he is stuck with those skills as his only option. Sure, he gains experience and blows it and doesn't care about that. This isn't about the expense of the abilities or the talent trees, this is about how he thinks about himself. Sure, when he was young, he had a career. It was a great career. But that changed the day the Empire ended his world. Unfortunately, he already had a character sheet at that point and didn't know it was going to turn out that way. It should have been a great backstory. Instead he is stuck with it (RAW) until the day he dies.

I am strictly talking about the mindset of the character, not the player regardless of how the rules affect talents and specializations. As I don't think this will happen often, I'm probably going to hand create a new character sheet for him with some added skills and specializations out of his Big Game hunter days and let his career be the Ace and go from there. We can always follow meta-game thinking and make it so that he is still hunting bigger game (the Empire) and paints all his kills on his ship and that would be fine, just add in more and bigger challenges for him, but I wanted to see what options were there if it was a realized character change in mindset.

*Again, this is a fictitious character and is not being played by my player so is not a real sample just an imagined one...

Well, think of it this way:

That character was a big-game hunter first, right. But his career was explorer. Why was he an explorer? Did he just love to travel and see new things, and his job as a hunter allowed him to do that? Even if he joined the Rebellion and committed to the war, does that change his love of traveling and exploring?

The solution might simply rely more on roleplaying and less on mechanics. The GM and the player working together to work this out; have him set aside the talent tree and ignore it, or develop a system between the two of you to gradually "phase out" old talents he doesn't use as he takes on new ones, for example, to reflect his skills gradually fading in his old profession.

As a GM, I would allow a respec to switch careers as my long as the player kept the same theme and tenets of the character. Perhaps she or he made a character using the Hired Gun career, but when the Bounty Hunter book comes out, the signature abilities or new specs make a much better fit for the character concept. I'd certainly allow a respec for that.

But you don't really change careers like AD&D characters can switch classes or go multi-class.

Isn't there some rules for this in the Age of Rebellion books?
I don't have them, but I vaguely remember something about the books explaining how to integrate EotE characters into the AotR setting, and I assumed that meant letting them switch from say "smuggler - Pilot" to "Ace - Hotshot" or something like that.

Personally I can go with it either way, and see roleplaying opportunities in both (as long as he has very strong roleplaying reasoning behind it). Mostly I wanted to see what options there were. I'm going to strongly recommend adapting the story and just picking up what he wants to but still keeping his world view. If that is not acceptable, I will work it out with him... and add in some additional obligation and duty (oh... oops! ha ha).

Going with the Big Game Hunter -to- Pilot imaginary situation for a bit: a couple thoughts...

I don't really see what the player is going to gain by respecing (except for Signature Ability, as noted). Part of the problem is you'll set a precedent...sure he's a Pilot now, but what happens when things change again and he's a Jedi? If you allow him to respec to Pilot, does he get to respec later as a Guardian?

I also don't buy that he's no longer a "big game hunter". Unless the current game sessions are all now 100% in the pilot's chair...but even then most of the BGH tree is multi-situational. Anybody can make use of Stalker, Grit, Confidence, Heightened Awareness, etc. Natural Hunter represents the instincts honed in his earlier life, applicable in any situation, why would he give up such a perfect Pilot skill?

I can't help but think that what's really going on is the player wants a fast track through all the Piloting Talents, recovering XP from BGH to do it. That just sounds like it's time to retire the old character and start a new one with roughly the same XP...retire the BGH with some epic end, and some up-and-coming hotshot in the Rebellion joins the group as a replacement.

But if you really wanted a mechanical solution...maybe all you have to do is allow the player to "sell" old Talents from his old BGH, for 5XP less than they're worth, once per session. This might represent him "forgetting" about his old life. One caveat would be that all remaining Talents have to remain connected per the tree connections...the side effect of this is that I bet he won't want to give up Dedication (if he has it), which means he will always have a few Talents in the old tree, enough to keep Dedication connected.

Good points, Whafrog, and actually, I think the player is thinking of this as "career" like we say it. He is thinking that his job is influencing his outlook on life and not the other way around. All to common, to be honest. But there could be a shift in how one views the world. A very significant shift. I am not seeing a mechanical advantage in what he is wanting to do. He's not even really asking to reclaim any experience. Just change his worldview and how his motivations affect him through where he is now as opposed to what he was doing when he had no responsibility and strong relationships with others. (mostly NPCs, but some in how he deals with other characters). I was thinking he was angling to min/max it, but it's not that at all. I'm even thinking of leaving his talents and specs alone and put him in XP debt until he repays it before letting him advance more... keep his old self and adjust his career skills dots and modify his primary motivation.

As that is the second mention of Signature Abilities, I am going to have to look that up. I was thinking it was capstone to any finalized talent pool. Are these limited to only career specializations? No book with me... or I would find out myself.

Are these limited to only career specializations?

Yes, you can only take Signature Abilities from your career, and they must attach to the bottom of one of those career specs. This is a benefit to staying "in career" and prevents characters from taking a bunch of SAs.

Isn't there some rules for this in the Age of Rebellion books?

I don't have them, but I vaguely remember something about the books explaining how to integrate EotE characters into the AotR setting, and I assumed that meant letting them switch from say "smuggler - Pilot" to "Ace - Hotshot" or something like that.

Not IIRC. There is an admonition that a character may not take the same spec twice from different careers (e.g.: taking the Pilot spec from both Smuggler and Ace is forbidden), but apart from rebuilding your character, there is no way to change careers.

Hmmm... well, that is eye-opening. I've got some (re)reading to do as I don't recall that tidbit of information... I think I figured out how it worked from the chart but did not read all of it leading up to there as we haven't really gotten to any of those kind of levels yet (and only have one book with a set of specializations anyway at the moment).

Personally, though, I'd simply handle it as if the player took a different specialization but with an added cost.
And it would have to be an actual career change.

I mean, we've all seen and heard of characters in SW that changed careers at some point.

I'd also stipulate that the player would no longer be allowed to put xp into the old specialization.

In effect, they'd change their occupation. They'd still have their old "big game hunter" skills, but from now on they could only spec into pilot skills and specializations.

Personally, though, I'd simply handle it as if the player took a different specialization but with an added cost.

And it would have to be an actual career change.

I mean, we've all seen and heard of characters in SW that changed careers at some point.

I'd also stipulate that the player would no longer be allowed to put xp into the old specialization.

In effect, they'd change their occupation. They'd still have their old "big game hunter" skills, but from now on they could only spec into pilot skills and specializations.

I like that. Simple, elegant and as it is not an extremely advanced character would make sense and could work out fairly well. I do like the restriction on not being able to add in to the old specialization as symbolic of giving everything up for a new path with potential regret later on.

Personally, though, I'd simply handle it as if the player took a different specialization but with an added cost.

And it would have to be an actual career change.

I mean, we've all seen and heard of characters in SW that changed careers at some point.

I'd also stipulate that the player would no longer be allowed to put xp into the old specialization.

In effect, they'd change their occupation. They'd still have their old "big game hunter" skills, but from now on they could only spec into pilot skills and specializations.

I don't get it at all.... What's with all those limitations...

RAW there are no limitations...

Blackbird was spot on.... Career is your characters Origin, plain and simple...

After that, with game experience, you can buy into any spec you want, be it from EotE, AoR or F&D... the only difference is that if it is not a spec from your Career, it cost +10 xp to buy it (you gain the Bonus Career skills and the Talent tree associated with that spec)... that's all. You can still invest XP in your old Talent trees, you can still benefit from your old career skills ; you now have access to more career skills, more talent trees, more of everything...

There is also nothing RAW that prevents you from changing your Motivations to fit your characters development over game time. So your BGH turned pilot could easily change his motivation to fit character evolution, buying into the Pilot spec or maybe Hotshot, but still retaining his BGH spec.... You can take the man out of the hunt, but you can't take the hunt out of the man... all those skills he developed while hunting prey are still there, even if he doesn't use them as often anymore.

But don't take me for a Saint, I allow respec for my players.... the main idea is that your players must have fun... if he feels his character is gonna be more fun to play if he respecs, then I allow it... In my play group, there are 2 ways to Respec. 1st is keeping the same character concept, the same backstory and the same character evolution. The character is basically the same but with some minor changes.... this usually happens when a new book comes out and the new spec in the book is a better fit for the character then the one previously chosen. The 2nd way is a full character reset... the player keep the same XP and can tailor his character the way he wants it, he just looses all his equipment and resets to starter gear. I wouldn't allow a player to respec only to min/max his character.

Hope it helps

Kudos

That character was a big-game hunter first, right. But his career was explorer. Why was he an explorer? Did he just love to travel and see new things, and his job as a hunter allowed him to do that? Even if he joined the Rebellion and committed to the war, does that change his love of traveling and exploring?

IMO, the better way would be to change the name Career to Origin, because that is how the character came to be who he/she/it is today. That doesn’t change, unless the character goes through some sort of a mind-wipe, which goes deeply enough to change their fundamental nature and personality. At which point, it might be the same physical body, but it’s definitely not the same person anymore.

Then Specialties stay the same, and the word “Career” now becomes an unofficial phrase that we use to explain our medium to long-term plans for how we’re going to make a living.

That’s how I would look at it.

I always permit respec. While each game mistress may very well have a different goal and mission statement in mind, mine is to create an entertaining experience.

We are a group of friends who like to hang out - while we hang out we role play nerd stuff. When a new book comes out, or a player wants to shift the focus to another role in the story, I let them respsec. Whenever they want. It doesn't matter at all because the point is to hang out, drink and smoke, get naked, and have a bubble bath.

Wait - what?

Anyways...

Wait - what?!?

Yeah, we don't have THAT kind of pen and paper games! Probably for the best...

Wait - what?!?

Yeah, we don't have THAT kind of pen and paper games! Probably for the best...

Different kind of *cough* "roleplaying."

Personally, though, I'd simply handle it as if the player took a different specialization but with an added cost.

And it would have to be an actual career change.

I mean, we've all seen and heard of characters in SW that changed careers at some point.

I'd also stipulate that the player would no longer be allowed to put xp into the old specialization.

In effect, they'd change their occupation. They'd still have their old "big game hunter" skills, but from now on they could only spec into pilot skills and specializations.

I don't get it at all.... What's with all those limitations...

RAW there are no limitations...

Blackbird was spot on.... Career is your characters Origin, plain and simple...

After that, with game experience, you can buy into any spec you want, be it from EotE, AoR or F&D... the only difference is that if it is not a spec from your Career, it cost +10 xp to buy it (you gain the Bonus Career skills and the Talent tree associated with that spec)... that's all. You can still invest XP in your old Talent trees, you can still benefit from your old career skills ; you now have access to more career skills, more talent trees, more of everything...

There is also nothing RAW that prevents you from changing your Motivations to fit your characters development over game time. So your BGH turned pilot could easily change his motivation to fit character evolution, buying into the Pilot spec or maybe Hotshot, but still retaining his BGH spec.... You can take the man out of the hunt, but you can't take the hunt out of the man... all those skills he developed while hunting prey are still there, even if he doesn't use them as often anymore.

But don't take me for a Saint, I allow respec for my players.... the main idea is that your players must have fun... if he feels his character is gonna be more fun to play if he respecs, then I allow it... In my play group, there are 2 ways to Respec. 1st is keeping the same character concept, the same backstory and the same character evolution. The character is basically the same but with some minor changes.... this usually happens when a new book comes out and the new spec in the book is a better fit for the character then the one previously chosen. The 2nd way is a full character reset... the player keep the same XP and can tailor his character the way he wants it, he just looses all his equipment and resets to starter gear. I wouldn't allow a player to respec only to min/max his character.

Hope it helps

Kudos

Different playstyles I suppose.

And also different players.

I have one player in my group whom I've played with for many years.

And I know how he is. He's a total rules-lawyer. He'll try to weasel as many advantages as possible from the rules, so if I allow free respecs and career switches, then he'll be min-maxing until the end of the world.

If I lock it off like I described, on the other hand, he'll only switch if he really wants to change profession.