I'm about to get into epic play in big way and was thinking about what to equip small ships. One of my fave upgrades (a-thrusters) may have less use in this format. Sure it gives extra protection at range 3,4 and 5 which is still good against some of those cannons.... but out of arc? Looks nigh impossible. UNLESS you only count the arc of the fore section when it's using its PWT.

EDIT. Come to think about it, the cannons are secondary weapons anyway. So the arc dodging side of AT is even less usefull (against the Tantive)?

Since the Corvette's main weapon is a PWT, Autothrusters do have some value there.

Quite simply yes. It stipulates beyond Range 2 OR out of arc.

To be perfectly honest, if your opponent is targeting ships which can be equipped with Autothrusters with the Tantive's main weapons or hard points, they're doing it wrong.

Since the Corvette's main weapon is a PWT, Autothrusters do have some value there.

yeah but its firing arc(S) cover a lot of area. The more I think on it, I am convinced you don't count the rear section firing arcs. These are a separate firing solution.

yeah but its firing arc(S) cover a lot of area. The more I think on it, I am convinced you don't count the rear section firing arcs. These are a separate firing solution.

Doesn't matter. It's primary weapon is range 3-5 only, which means you'd get the long range bonus against it's attacks and Autothrusters will ALWAYS kick in.

The same goes for Single Turbolasers, which are range 3-5 only, double your agility and then of course, Autothrusters kick in.

Now if you're in the Tantive's side arcs at range 1 or 2 and it has Quad Laser Cannons equipped then you might have an issue, but against anything else, let's face it, it's probably going to miss.

Since the Corvette's main weapon is a PWT, Autothrusters do have some value there.

yeah but its firing arc(S) cover a lot of area. The more I think on it, I am convinced you don't count the rear section firing arcs. These are a separate firing solution.

Incorrect. "In arc" is all that matters. Number and types of arcs are irrelevant, just like the Firespray's auxiliary arc works to turn off Autothrusters. If you want your upgrade to protect you from a CR90, you need to stay outside Range 2 or attack from the front/rear.

To be perfectly honest, if your opponent is targeting ships which can be equipped with Autothrusters with the Tantive's main weapons or hard points, they're doing it wrong.

Eh...you can put autothrusters on Brobots? And seeing four of them is a relatively common(-ish) 'heavy' element for a Scum list in Epic.

CR90's main turret, valid areas. The target ship's center stem must fall within the blue zone

The same image, but with the arcs activated:

To be perfectly honest, if your opponent is targeting ships which can be equipped with Autothrusters with the Tantive's main weapons or hard points, they're doing it wrong.

Main gun against Soontir is anywhere from 5v4 to 5v6, depending on Stealth Device and asteroids. Those are all doable, especially if Soontir has already spent towns and you have a TL.

Muon, great image very clear. But isnt the Pwt 360? Am I missing something?

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The more I think on it, I am convinced you don't count the rear section firing arcs. These are a separate firing solution.

Incorrect. "In arc" is all that matters. Number and types of arcs are irrelevant, just like the Firespray's auxiliary arc works to turn off Autothrusters. If you want your upgrade to protect you from a CR90, you need to stay outside Range 2 or attack from the front/rear.

Let's talk that through. For the the firespray both arcs apply to the one weapon. The fore and aft sections of the tantive are considered two separate ships for every thing but movement.

Different actions, upgrades, weapons firing arcs. One section can have a title, the other can't. Hell you can destroy one section and the other kicks on.

You can be in range 3 of one section but range 2 of the other. So what do you decide what range you are in? Surely determined by the weapon that is firing at you? So wouldn't that also determine in arc or not? Plus destroy the rear section determines whether you are in arc or not of the PWT? Doesn't ring true to me. Still if there is a ruling out there......

Muon, great image very clear. But isnt the Pwt 360? Am I missing something?

dual-base, if your firing line passes through the separator line you can't target with that section

Can't check cards at the moment. But if what you say is true Rekkon, AT will only trigger when your ship is at range 3 or more of ALL weapons or out of arc of ALL weapons.

Ahhh. Got it thanks Tipp.

Eh...you can put autothrusters on Brobots? And seeing four of them is a relatively common(-ish) 'heavy' element for a Scum list in Epic.

You can, And the Tantive IV is very unlikely to hit them with either it's Primary Weapon or Single Turbolasers unless they've already had tokens stripped.

The Tantive wants to be directing it's long range weapons primarily at low agility targets. Low agility targets do not often have access to Autothrusters.

Auto thrusters doesn't not work if you roll all the eyeballs. Lost a very quick and painful game in our raiders debut. Never been capes as hard as we were yesterday.

We got nailed by 2 consecutive ion torpedoes. Can you believe that? Ioned at least 5 ships both times.

Tipp, that's not true. You have 2 checks to make when you fire with the CR90 turret

1) draw a line from fore base's stem to your target ship' center stem. Does this line cross the corvette's blue line? If so, invalid, don't continue

2) you then check range, using the closest point of the fore base (not the fore half of the ship, but the plastic fore BASE) to your target, employing minimal distance. This second test may yet make it invalid, if the target has a portion under range 3, for example.

To be perfectly honest, if your opponent is targeting ships which can be equipped with Autothrusters with the Tantive's main weapons or hard points, they're doing it wrong.

Why not?

If I have a Tantive with Jan Ors, I'm throwing 6 dice with Target Lock. You're defending your Alpha squadron pilot with 4 dice with focus. I don't have a script for Autothrusters, but let's just say it's an automatic evade. So you get 1 + (5/8)*3 evades for an average of 1.875. I average 4.5 damage, 4.83 damage with Han Solo. I can't calculate exactly what happens since I don't have a script yet for Autothrusters (and subtracting averages is incorrect), but I think I have a decent chance of one-shotting an Alpha.

What about Soontir you say? He has one evade, one almost-evade (Autothrusters approximation) and one more die. 2 + (5/8)*4, 4.5 evade symbols for a *very* rough estimation (which is also higher than it should be because of my simplification). So, while Soontir won't be one-shotted, i think you definitely have enough to strip his stealth device, which leaves him vulnerable to your escorts.

In conclusion, I think there's a definite case for shooting at Autothruster ships in certain conditions, but with the primary weapon, definitely not with a secondary, and only with extra dice and TL, preferrably with han solo as well. I also think the Alphas are rubbish in Epic, since they're prime targets to be sniped at range 5.

edit: Oh and in reponse to OP, I think they're not good against the Tantive. Quad lasers are the only ones that don't trigger AT, but they're laughable anyway. Everything else triggers AT, but I don't think it matters, I shoot too many dice with the Tantive to be interested in one die modification you can do with AT.

Tipp, that's not true. You have 2 checks to make when you fire with the CR90 turret

1) draw a line from fore base's stem to your target ship' center stem. Does this line cross the corvette's blue line? If so, invalid, don't continue

2) you then check range, using the closest point of the fore base (not the fore half of the ship, but the plastic fore BASE) to your target, employing minimal distance. This second test may yet make it invalid, if the target has a portion under range 3, for example.

Isn't 1) what I described? I mean, normally the "firing line" is measured from base-edge, but I was assuming center for huges since that's what fit the displayed arcs. (disclaimer: I've played like 1 Epic game, ever)

Since the Corvette's main weapon is a PWT, Autothrusters do have some value there.

yeah but its firing arc(S) cover a lot of area. The more I think on it, I am convinced you don't count the rear section firing arcs. These are a separate firing solution.

Both arcs count.

Anywhere a Quad Laser Hardpoint on either section of a CR90 could target, Autothrusters do not trigger.

If you're getting within Range 2 and approaching from the side Autothrusters won't trigger much.

FTS GECKO

"Doesn't matter. It's primary weapon is range 3-5 only, which means you'd get the long range bonus against it's attacks and Autothrusters will ALWAYS kick in"

Good point. But if Rekkon is right if you are in range 2 of the aft weapons AT do not kick in. To be fair s/he does not say that. The argument is that the firing arcs of the rear section affect AT when defending against the fore PWT. My thought process is no they do not. But it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong and it won't be the last.

Tipp, that's not true. You have 2 checks to make when you fire with the CR90 turret

1) draw a line from fore base's stem to your target ship' center stem. Does this line cross the corvette's blue line? If so, invalid, don't continue

2) you then check range, using the closest point of the fore base (not the fore half of the ship, but the plastic fore BASE) to your target, employing minimal distance. This second test may yet make it invalid, if the target has a portion under range 3, for example.

Isn't 1) what I described? I mean, normally the "firing line" is measured from base-edge, but I was assuming center for huges since that's what fit the displayed arcs. (disclaimer: I've played like 1 Epic game, ever)

Yes, disregard, I thought I read it as if the only check you were saying was needed was from the base. Many people don't master the two different styles of checks. Disregard that comment about you getting G it wrong, but I also wanted to give the full procedure out there.

I'm glad you did! Makes me realise I have to do a whole lot, of re-reading

I kind of wish Epic didn't have wierd dual-checks like that, it feels more complex than necessary (though I get why it's done that way due to the geometries involved).

For even more complex epic related rules, pay close attention to obstacle deployment at the start of the game (in the epic tournament rules). Because of the text employed, using some of the expressions that have since then been clarified so I'm now even more certain of this:

1) asteroids have to be put in pairs that are *fully* within range 1 of each other (no bit crossing into range 2 territory)

2) they have to be placed "not within Range 1–2 of either team edge." The word "within" is explained fully in another document, I believe, and it means "every bit of the token" *can't* be within range 1-2. Because the sentence is written in the negative, it means that if 1 molecule crosses over at range 3+, you're ok putting obstacles at least partially in the range 2 band.

3) I don't think the text forbids obstacles to be overlapping themselves when you consider a pair of them. When I play epic, we house rule that we can't, since it both looks silly and is not pratical should a ship land on that pile.

...and people wonder why Epic isn't more poplar~