Do you think its possible to buy a space marine Geen-seed? If a Rogue trader wanted to buy part of or a entire Space Marine geen seed, would that be possible.
I know the fluff says that each chapter needs to send back some of its geen-seed as a tith to the Imperium. So maybe some of that gets lost or stolen along the way.
Is their any case of this happening in the fluf?
Sure, if you want to take your chances and try to somehow ambush a Space Marine escort, steal the geneseed and then somehow weather the hostility of that particular Chapter... go ahead.
And the geneseed tithe is less of a tithe and more of a sample to be inspected for any traces of corruption. At least if I remember correctly.
I think it more likely that a Rogue Trader would end up with Chaos Marine Geneseed. But that would make an even more interesting plot. What happens when you implant mutant geneseed into a normal human, perhaps even the Rogue Trader himself? Of course, you need all the psycho-active training to utilize some of the implants and chemicals to keep the metabolism in check, so there are already problems with mental and physical stability. Add to that the corruption of Chaos and you're looking at the RT getting more than he bargained for.
Perhaps it isn't just the Rogue Trader, but a Radical Inquisitor who procures the geneseed for the experiment. The RT might think they're getting pure geneseed, but the Radical =I= is hoping to see if the enemies own biology can be used against them. The results might be more than the Radical bargained for, requiring the intervention of the =I=, assisted by a lesser relative of the now infected RT.
This would be a great way to introduce your DH players to RT. The lesser relative could, at the successful conclusion of the adventure, take up the Trade Warrant and ship of his late relative and the DH characters might become part of his crew or the other players make new RT characters and jump back and forth between the games as they feel like it...
For the most part I would have to say no since there are things that even a Rogue Trader cannot get although Luther has a very interesting idea.
Maybe not geen seed, its a tithe given to Terra to monitor the genetic "health" of the chapter and also the keep in store for new founding's of chapters, so no.
UncleArkie said:
Maybe not geen seed, its a tithe given to Terra to monitor the genetic "health" of the chapter and also the keep in store for new founding's of chapters, so no.
Mars, not Terra. And for a short while: Hydra Cordatus. Maybe a Forge World if it's absolutely necessary.
Gene-seed won't work on anyone who hasn't received the months of physical training a Space Marine initiate has to go through, and they'd have to be pretty young since the technology to create Space Marines from adults has been lost.
I seem to remember that it wasn't fully effective for a mature human, but it had some lesser effects. The obvious way to get gene seed is off the battle field. "Simply" find a dead marine that had yet to be salvaged. Of course not all gene seed is equal. A lot of chapters have flaws. Sure you could buy it from some one else who did this, but you'd have no way to know what flaws you'd get. With the non chaos folks this can range from fangs to blood drinking to madness.... Then there are the chaos marines....
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine
Personally a wiser course would be cybernetics, or drug glands.
Something like Marine enhancements can be bought. In Siege of Vraks 3 (Forgeworld's latest) Inquisitor Lord Hector Rex is described as having been genetically enhanced in a manner (as I recall) "similar to the process undergone by a space marine."
Rex is 8 feet tall, carries a 1.5 meter long stormshield, and wields a two handed greatsword...in one hand.
Clearly if you are a big wheel in the Inquisition, doors open for you that enable you to have that sort of genetic enhancement. I would imagine it's pretty rare: Rex is a VERY high status Inquisitor Lord, with the ear of a High Lord of Terra (the Inquisitorial representative). He's also Auditorii Imperator, which means he's had an audience with the Emperor. (Can't imagine they had much to chat about, though.)
No, Marine gene-seed cannot be bought. That aside the issue of getting it implantet is another matter.
1) first you will have to be male as the geneseed only binds with the Y-chromosome for one reason or another.
2) you will have to be no more than about 20 as after the body stops growing it can no longer adpet to the implants.
3) your body will have to be a genetic match to the gene-seed or else it will reject the implants (usually with fatal consequenses).
4) if all that above IS "in working order" you would have to find someone with the necessary expertese in crafting these extra organs into you (either a Space Marine Apothecary or a Lord Arch-magos biologos neither of who's services can simply be "bought").
5) to avoid mutation you would have to have accuired gene-seed from a stable, non-mutated source.
6) then the organs have to be implanted over a period of about 1-5 years, the longer = the greater chance of surviving (unless it takes you outside the 20 years requirement (see point 1)).
7) No, gene-seed exist as one of the things to prove such statments wrong as "Everything has a price"
when you find a lost "Standard Construction Template" system out in the expanse talk to the local Arch-Magos to figure somethink out, but until then better get a few cybernetic enhancements
.
I believe that a sufficiently motivated Rogue Trader could acquire a gene seed. Marines are lost all of the time. I would have to think that a very small percentage of them are lost because someone wanted their gene seed. A very small percentage is still a very large number given the size of the Imperium and the amount of time (near 12,000 years) available.
I could see a Rogue Trader acquiring the gene seed. I could see a sane Rogue Trader finding a suitable candidate for the implantation process and even finding/stealing/buying the necessary equipment and expertise to successfully implant the gene seed.
The aftermath can be a bit of a problem, however. Once the Astartes discover that someone other than another Astartes Chapter is developing Space Marines, they will (quietly) declare a Crusade and wipe the Rogue Trader and all of his/her family, retainers and holdings from the universe. And then, expunge the records, for good measure.
4) if all that above IS "in working order" you would have to find someone with the necessary expertese in crafting these extra organs into you (either a Space Marine Apothecary or a Lord Arch-magos biologos neither of who's services can simply be "bought").
A sorceror or Logician heretek might be another angle from which you could go at this, although they'd need to be of almost equal rank to the abovementioned, so...
Claven said:
And the geneseed tithe is less of a tithe and more of a sample to be inspected for any traces of corruption. At least if I remember correctly.
"Each Chapter is obliged to send 5% of its genetic material to the Adeptus Mechanicus. The first purpose for this is that it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to monitor the health of each Marine Chapter. Secondly, it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to store gene-seed with a view to founding new Chapters." WD 85 i think might have been restated in the SM codexs.
So the Adeptus could will have dozens of new chapters in stastis.
Tetragon Tanebrae said:
No, Marine gene-seed cannot be bought. That aside the issue of getting it implantet is another matter.
1) first you will have to be male as the geneseed only binds with the Y-chromosome for one reason or another.
2) you will have to be no more than about 20 as after the body stops growing it can no longer adpet to the implants.
3) your body will have to be a genetic match to the gene-seed or else it will reject the implants (usually with fatal consequenses).
4) if all that above IS "in working order" you would have to find someone with the necessary expertese in crafting these extra organs into you (either a Space Marine Apothecary or a Lord Arch-magos biologos neither of who's services can simply be "bought").
5) to avoid mutation you would have to have accuired gene-seed from a stable, non-mutated source.
6) then the organs have to be implanted over a period of about 1-5 years, the longer = the greater chance of surviving (unless it takes you outside the 20 years requirement (see point 1)).
7) No, gene-seed exist as one of the things to prove such statments wrong as "Everything has a price"
when you find a lost "Standard Construction Template" system out in the expanse talk to the local Arch-Magos to figure somethink out, but until then better get a few cybernetic enhancements
.
1) i agree with this statement
2) i disagree with this statement because the Primarch friends/honor guard, once the primarch were found were made into space marines.
3) I disagree with this statement because the core part of each of the 20 chapters came from Terra and the rest of the chapter came form planets with no contact from Terra for over 10,000 years.
4) I disagree, an RT has tons of pull I don't think this would even be an issue.
5) i agree with this statement
6) I disagree with this statement because the Primarch friends/honor guard, once the primarch were found were made into space marines.
7)
I'm gonna have to go with an emphatic " no " on this one.
You're talking about dealing with something that few people even know exist. I'm not saying space marines are a big secret, but they're certainly not a daily, or even yearly sight in most parts of the Imperium (Brothers of the Snake). Despite being humanity's greatest protectors, they're also feared because they are so different and so *unknown* to their fellow man. When you say "Space Marine" to your average Imperial citizen, they won't respond with "gene seed", and if you say "gene seed" to them, they'll think you're writing a very clinical smut book.
So, you can't steal what you don't know exisits. Now, certainly the Inquisition and other groups are aware, but as knowledge is power, I'm sure they don't run around advertising.
Next, logistical difficulties. Do you know how to remove it from a dead space marine? Do any of your cohorts? You know it exists, but WHERE in the body is it? Can you cut through a space marines bones to get at it without ruining the geneseed? Can you get to a dead space marine quickly enough that the gene seed isn't ruined but BEFORE his friends find him? Can you transport it appropriately to keep it viable? Can you leave no trace of your passing if you do?
Assuming you take a different approach and attempt to hijack the space faring vessel with carrying a chapter's geneseed tithe, good luck getting it. It'll be either too fast to catch or too heavily guarded. In the event that you do get on board, it would probably be destroyed before they let it fall into someone else's hands. Read "Storm of Iron" to get an idea of how hard it is to steal a geneseed storage facility.
As far the age of geneseed recipients, they must be young. The "space marines" made during the Horus Heresy that were older were notably inferior to the fresh recruits (Horus Heresy novels, particularly "Descent of Angels"). The whole idea of geneseed is that it augments the processes a maturing body is already undergoing, so you'd have to be young for it to work.
As far as being a genetic match is concerned, I can only say that not every space marine candidate makes it to the point where they will receive the chapter's geneseed, and of those that do, many will reject it. Reason unknown for certain.
As for finding someone with the knowledge to implant it. Good farking luck. Even if an RT has gigatons of pull with the Mechanicum, there are some things that just aren't widely known or shared. The US is friends with lots of countries. Not all US scientists can make nuclear bombs. And good farking luck finding one who does know and who is willing to share the knowledge with another country. I don't share my email passwords with my fiancee and the Mechanicum doesn't run around willy-nilly telling people how to make space marines.
Furthermore, it has been clear that a huge amount of training and knowledge is imparted upon space marine candidates so they can properly use their new found organs and abilities. So, if you've somehow managed to complete all the previously mentioned tasks, you now have to find the space marine curriculum and associated text books as well as the machines to perform the conditioning (SM candidates are taught like in a process that is a cross between the Matrix (I know kung-fu) and A Clockwork Orange.
Knowledge is power and currency in 40k and geneseed info is beyond priceless.
So to reiterate. If you want to be like a space marine, there are treatments and cybernetics to get you close. But the chances of you ever getting your hands on geneseed are slim to none. And the chances of being able to use it appropriately are even less. Oh, I almost forgot, prepare for the wrath of the victimized chapter and Imperium when you're found out.
Cervantes3773 said:
I'm gonna have to go with an emphatic " no " on this one.
You're talking about dealing with something that few people even know exist. I'm not saying space marines are a big secret, but they're certainly not a daily, or even yearly sight in most parts of the Imperium (Brothers of the Snake). Despite being humanity's greatest protectors, they're also feared because they are so different and so *unknown* to their fellow man. When you say "Space Marine" to your average Imperial citizen, they won't respond with "gene seed", and if you say "gene seed" to them, they'll think you're writing a very clinical smut book.
So, you can't steal what you don't know exisits. Now, certainly the Inquisition and other groups are aware, but as knowledge is power, I'm sure they don't run around advertising.
Next, logistical difficulties. Do you know how to remove it from a dead space marine? Do any of your cohorts? You know it exists, but WHERE in the body is it? Can you cut through a space marines bones to get at it without ruining the geneseed? Can you get to a dead space marine quickly enough that the gene seed isn't ruined but BEFORE his friends find him? Can you transport it appropriately to keep it viable? Can you leave no trace of your passing if you do?
Assuming you take a different approach and attempt to hijack the space faring vessel with carrying a chapter's geneseed tithe, good luck getting it. It'll be either too fast to catch or too heavily guarded. In the event that you do get on board, it would probably be destroyed before they let it fall into someone else's hands. Read "Storm of Iron" to get an idea of how hard it is to steal a geneseed storage facility.
As far the age of geneseed recipients, they must be young. The "space marines" made during the Horus Heresy that were older were notably inferior to the fresh recruits (Horus Heresy novels, particularly "Descent of Angels"). The whole idea of geneseed is that it augments the processes a maturing body is already undergoing, so you'd have to be young for it to work.
As far as being a genetic match is concerned, I can only say that not every space marine candidate makes it to the point where they will receive the chapter's geneseed, and of those that do, many will reject it. Reason unknown for certain.
As for finding someone with the knowledge to implant it. Good farking luck. Even if an RT has gigatons of pull with the Mechanicum, there are some things that just aren't widely known or shared. The US is friends with lots of countries. Not all US scientists can make nuclear bombs. And good farking luck finding one who does know and who is willing to share the knowledge with another country. I don't share my email passwords with my fiancee and the Mechanicum doesn't run around willy-nilly telling people how to make space marines.
Furthermore, it has been clear that a huge amount of training and knowledge is imparted upon space marine candidates so they can properly use their new found organs and abilities. So, if you've somehow managed to complete all the previously mentioned tasks, you now have to find the space marine curriculum and associated text books as well as the machines to perform the conditioning (SM candidates are taught like in a process that is a cross between the Matrix (I know kung-fu) and A Clockwork Orange.
Knowledge is power and currency in 40k and geneseed info is beyond priceless.
So to reiterate. If you want to be like a space marine, there are treatments and cybernetics to get you close. But the chances of you ever getting your hands on geneseed are slim to none. And the chances of being able to use it appropriately are even less. Oh, I almost forgot, prepare for the wrath of the victimized chapter and Imperium when you're found out.
Agreed, if the genetic enhancements of space marines were an easyly availible comodity don't you think that every rogue trader out there wold have it.
if we take all the things away about how to accuire it and he is able to use it and all that only about one in a hundred survives the blood trials and implantation.
Also I doupt many people could surivive the immense pain of implantation, hell they cut you open like a dead fish and replace the organs (like pluking out your eyes and ears before setting new ones) all the time while you are conscious.
myth835 said:
Tetragon Tanebrae said:
No, Marine gene-seed cannot be bought. That aside the issue of getting it implantet is another matter.
1) first you will have to be male as the geneseed only binds with the Y-chromosome for one reason or another.
2) you will have to be no more than about 20 as after the body stops growing it can no longer adpet to the implants.
3) your body will have to be a genetic match to the gene-seed or else it will reject the implants (usually with fatal consequenses).
4) if all that above IS "in working order" you would have to find someone with the necessary expertese in crafting these extra organs into you (either a Space Marine Apothecary or a Lord Arch-magos biologos neither of who's services can simply be "bought").
5) to avoid mutation you would have to have accuired gene-seed from a stable, non-mutated source.
6) then the organs have to be implanted over a period of about 1-5 years, the longer = the greater chance of surviving (unless it takes you outside the 20 years requirement (see point 1)).
7) No, gene-seed exist as one of the things to prove such statments wrong as "Everything has a price"
when you find a lost "Standard Construction Template" system out in the expanse talk to the local Arch-Magos to figure somethink out, but until then better get a few cybernetic enhancements
.
1) i agree with this statement
2) i disagree with this statement because the Primarch friends/honor guard, once the primarch were found were made into space marines.
3) I disagree with this statement because the core part of each of the 20 chapters came from Terra and the rest of the chapter came form planets with no contact from Terra for over 10,000 years.
4) I disagree, an RT has tons of pull I don't think this would even be an issue.
5) i agree with this statement
6) I disagree with this statement because the Primarch friends/honor guard, once the primarch were found were made into space marines.
7)
2+6) while this is true in some cases, it is the exception rather than the rule and the ability to make older men into space marine were more adcanced back then, and while it is possible to make adoults into space marines the (already slim) survival rate is even further drastrically reduced.
"Aspirants must always be chosen when they are young, before they become too mature to accept the geneseed that will turn them into space marines." page 10 in the newest eddition Space Marine codex chapter "How to create Space Marines"
3) that is an argument i had not considered, again this is the case of GW contradition. But then again Terra is the craddle of all humanity so it might be logical to assume that recruits from Terra could accept all geneseed or more likely that as the geneseed back then were taken directly from the Primarchs (though in limited amount as they themselves were disappeared) it would be more "stronger" and thus able to be implanted in everyone.
4) As have already been stated i highly doubt that any Rogue Trader would have enough pull to just get that kind of aid. And as I have already stated I don't think that they can just be paid to do it.
To pull it all short No.
Claven said:
And the geneseed tithe is less of a tithe and more of a sample to be inspected for any traces of corruption. At least if I remember correctly.
IIRC it is a tithe, some of it is tested and some of it is stored. When they have sufficient geneseed it is used to found new chapters. Thus founding new chapters is quite a slow process...
myth835 said:
2) i disagree with this statement because the Primarch friends/honor guard, once the primarch were found were made into space marines.
6) I disagree with this statement because the Primarch friends/honor guard, once the primarch were found were made into space marines.
Luther would like to disagree with you.
Also: At the time Space Marines were made weaker. They weren't the Angels of Death that they are 10,000 years later. They were made to be better, harder, faster, stronger than the average human being; superior. Fast-forward 10,000 years and they've figured out how to make even better Space Marines using gene-seed to it's full effect.
I have to say I'm more or less on the "no chance sonny" side here. Now non space marine genetic organ implantation and experimentation that's certainly a lot more likely.
Reason i'm posting though is I had a thought after reading you guys rabbit on about the geneseed tithe. So the Mechanicus store the geneseed in uber secret vaults etc. in case new Chapters need created.
Now what if i'm on Mars and a long time deep undercover Logician agent or, perhaps dare I say that hushed up, never talked about cult known as the Dark Mechanicus...
Trothael said:
Luther would like to disagree with you.
I would? And about what? I'm confused.
Well, while I'm posting I might as well remind folks of Rule 0, here. It doesn't matter what the pro and con arguments are for or against a plot surrounding stolen geneseed. If you think it would make a neat adventure, then do it. I've given one rationale for it (Chaos Marines, Radical Inquisitors and Power Hungry Rogue Traders) and I'm sure there are a hundred others.
We're talking Science-Fantasy, after all, not Hard Science Fiction. The progenoid glands are removed with a glorified ice cream scoop, for goodness sake, so all you really need to justify the adventure is a space marine corpse, some greedy SOB's with a lot of resources and very little common sense, and a space of time before the adventure takes place for said suicidal chuckleheads to grow a complete line of organs for implantation...
As a GM I'm pretty much on the "You're out of your mind, but sure why not. It will be fun." band wagon. I just think:
1)Buying it will be really tough, and not something you can just roll to get.
2)Be sure you get the right geneseed
3)Boy will the Space Marine's be pissed. Not to mention the =][=.
Certainly you'd need to link up with Chaos Marines, Logicians, or other heretics. Other wise you need to start poking space marine battle fields. Personally I think stolen geneseed is a great idea for an adventure, but a terrible idea for the PCs to be involved in.
Luther said:
Trothael said:
Luther would like to disagree with you.
I would? And about what? I'm confused.
He meant the second-in-command of the first legion of Adeptus Astartes (the Dark Angels) who could not be implanted with geneseed becouse of his age.
Tetragon Tanebrae said:
Luther said:
Trothael said:
Luther would like to disagree with you.
I would? And about what? I'm confused.
He meant the second-in-command of the first legion of Adeptus Astartes (the Dark Angels) who could not be implanted with geneseed becouse of his age.
Which made Luther a sad and jealous panda...
1, 2, 4, 6 These are correct enough to not matter
3 Not so, if it were true all of the chapters that have no home world would have been killed of long ago. ( The Wolves give their recruits a retro-virus that alters them prior to any other alterations.)
5 Only matters if you care
7 This makes me want to ask if you’re related to GW Bush. But I will try to resist.
C. The “inferior Marines” did not undergo the procedures that create actual SM. The SM in the Dark Angels book such as Luther, were altered using other methods. There is no evidence that the 13 th company of the Wolves, were inferior to normal SM. The vast majority of them simply died during the process.