also I've seen somewhere that it will have a speed of 3.... if so, I don't think the victory will see many lists

I think it will end up being the go too carrier ship actually

Well, to be honest, right now there is very little to differentiate the spoiled ISD from a Vic1 - Dominator. They have the same front arc, with the Dominator having a slightly better side arc, when using the title.

So the design space really comes down to maneuverability. How many clicks does the ISD get at each joint, and what is its maximum speed (or available upgrades that cannot go on the Vic)?

If the ISD is much, much more maneuverable than the VSD (3 total clicks while moving), then the VSD will be relegated to Carrier duty, where the lack of maneuverability isn't as much of a handicap.

So, in other words, the ISD and VSD occupy the same design space. Maneuverability, upgrades (maybe the ISD gets TWO Turbolaser slots, eg XI7 and H9s anyone?) and title cards are needed to differentiate the two ships.

Victory gonna be perfectly fine. He will act as pretty cheap (400 remeber) carrier, flanking hard hitter, buttprotector for isd. Multiple uses.

Even Victory spam (3-4 VSD? Consider that front firepower) gonna be played imho.

Just because bigger and more powerfull ship comes out doesnt meant that smaller but more flexible ones gonna be dropped. That's almost never the case in miniature games.

My sample list that looks really powerfull for now:

ISD - main focal point.

VSD - carrier fit for flanking and squad support

1 Glad to protect ISD

2nd Glad to make those Demolisher Hit'n'Run.

And some fighters

in a well balanced game, this is the ideal scenario:

VSD - smaller and more point efficient ship

ISD - giant (gl with obstacles/ASTEROIDS DO NOT CONCERN ME, ADMIRAL!), incredibly inefficient (point cost pending, but the ISD's battery armaments aren't that much more impressive than a VSD), begging to be upgraded (just look at all the cards included with it)

need a bruiser? a cheap carrier? just a big blunt hammer or area denial? VSD.

need a flagship? A big, expensive monstrosity to hold the center of your fleet? ISD.

Agree with Fickle. VSD is a cheap source of offensive firepower and a good upgrade carrier.

According to the fluff (for what its worth), the VSD became outmoded as it was under speed to be used for space combat. Fine for destroying recalcitrant star systems after the clone wars, but once the alliance started fielding fast heavy ships it was outclassed. I can see it being very sub standard against a mon cal (hell, it usually gets out danced and out gunned by a space whale!). (This also implies a speed 3 ISD....)

It will obviously still be good as a carrier, leaving the ISD to Nav and Eng. I think it will also be good trailing behind and keeping the ISDs tail clear of torpedo frigates...

My answer: Nothing! Because it's still a great area denial ship.

Have they mentioned if it will be legal to have Vader-Commander and Vader-TIE-Advanced-Pilot in the same build? Seems ... odd.

Have they mentioned if it will be legal to have Vader-Commander and Vader-TIE-Advanced-Pilot in the same build? Seems ... odd.

It will not, and it is covered in the rulebook by the "Unique" rule.

As long as they're both "Darth Vader", with a Dot, then they can't... Even if they are different types (Commander, Squadron, etc)

Rules Reference, Page 13:

Unique Names

A card’s name is unique if there is a bullet (•) to the left of the name.

• A fleet cannot contain more than one card with the same unique name, even if those cards are of different types.

Related Topics: Fleet Building, Upgrade Cards

(This also implies a speed 3 ISD....)

It is known.

also interesting thing

given the size of the large base and the fact that, unlike X-wing, large ships do not move faster, I'd have to predict that the VSD will have a lovely time murdering ISDs and Mon Cals

the smaller, yippy ships can arc-dodge that front like no one's business. These big baddies are going to have a bit of a tougher time.

The one big point is the ISD is going to eat up a lot of your points after upgrades. So it will come down to hwo you want to build your fleet. If you want to go with quantity, VSD is going to be what you look at. If you want to go for quality, then it will be the ISD. Or you can go with both!

Each will have their own merits. The ISD is going to be a pain trying to navigate through obsticles and after a few upgrade will be very costly, and most likely the focus of your opponents attacks.

But ultimately, before we make any hasty decisions about what will still be used and what wont be, we need to see exactly what all the stats, upgrades, titles, and commanders are.

Maybe you can use a VSD for protect de rear hull zone of a ISD, but we need to know the point cost first.

I highly doubt they would make one of their ships obsolete after just 1 wave.

I highly doubt they would make one of their ships obsolete after just 1 wave.

Well, what they intend and what happens are two very different things in wargames.

My thought is, any job that the Victory can do, another ship can do, usually for cheaper. ISDs can support more squadrons (though not for cheaper, but still), Gladiators work better for area denial because of their brutish close-range damage, and Raiders can protect soft spots of the ISD and maneuver easier due to their small size and high maneuverability.

I agree with most of the comments on here though: The Victory will probably fill the role of being a cheaper carrier t hat can focus on giving squadron commands. Though, considering the current arguments over the effectiveness of squadrons, this itself may not be something people take often...

At medium and long range the VSD has just as much or more fire power then the ISD even without Dominator factored in. The big advantage of the ISD is that its a **** tank and can handle crazy amounts of punishment making it a great flagship.