Researching the Mechanicum in Lathe Worlds leads to the discovery of "discordants" on page 54. A discordant appears to be a tech-null. I love the concept! But... Would a discordant disrupt technology that doesn't have machine spirits? Ie. tau, eldar, dark eldar...

IMHO, yes what they do is mess with the advanced magic machines, ie Tech, much like a Untouchable does to all Psykers.

They personally have no idea how they do it, I bet to most they consider "random" good luck that breaks their way.

The relationship between magic and technology is frustrating, as is the possibility of the existence of Machine Spirits in general. The Imperium believes in them with the force of quadrillions of followers, but that doesn't mean there are actually tiny life forms inside of our machines. It could just be that the execution time of programs is setup a certain way, the Mechanicus have some sort of AR-implant that abstracts programming into the concept of spirits and any strange behaviour is just the shoddy Imperial programming kicking in.

On the other hand it says something about the setting that it doesn't mean Machine Spirits aren't real, and there might be tiny life forms living in all of our guns that help them fire.

However I'd say that anything that's non-primitive would be affected by a Discordant.

I'd potentially exclude Ork tech from being influenced by a discordant if there were enough Orks in the area. Even then I'd probably rule that the 'Make it Work' trait becomes non-functional in the presence of a discordant.

I'd potentially exclude Ork tech from being influenced by a discordant if there were enough Orks in the area. Even then I'd probably rule that the 'Make it Work' trait becomes non-functional in the presence of a discordant.

I do like this. Maybe make it a contested Willpower Roll in this case.

Your Tech does not work!

YES IT ZOGGIN' DOES!

Just in case.

As I know Machine Spirits are some king of low artificial intelligence created and patched into STC millenia ago, in Dark Age of Technology. So Discordants destruct this AIs some way. So they shouldn't work to another race's tech.

It sort of depends on how that "tech" works. In some ways, you can argue that not EVERY device forged by a human possesses a machine spirit. If I am a layman, and I fabricate a lasgun out of machined parts, no "programming" went into it, but, like lasers today, it will work. One needs to discern how the ability truly works, whether it is some kind of EMP/haywire effect, or what? Tau tech is pretty advanced, and their drones have what might be seen as a rudimentary hive AI, sort of like what the Geth have, in Mass Effect, before the Quarions freak, and try to pull the plug. Eldar devices have their consciousness flow through them, due to their psychic resonance; possibly the same with some Orky tech (it's often the only reason that junk does work).

It can say that the power "effects Machine Spirits", but that assumes they are real, which the game never explicitly says. More to the point, it's sort of irritating to have them make this specific power, just to say "it only affects Human technology." If that's the case, it's not worth even taking.

If it works how I see it, then Tau with their advanced tech, might get the worse end of it as nothing they try to aim or use on the target should work, as well.. According to the advanced hardware/sensors they don't exist think of them as a blank hole in space.

It sort of depends on how that "tech" works. In some ways, you can argue that not EVERY device forged by a human possesses a machine spirit. If I am a layman, and I fabricate a lasgun out of machined parts, no "programming" went into it, but, like lasers today, it will work.

Yes, of course; but it's not you, it's STC who give patterns to build it, and this patterns didn't changed from DAoT (dozens of this patterns, and there is no any unbroken STC in the galaxy). Yes, you CAN create non-STC version of lasgun, Chimera or even LandRaider (witch will not be a LandRaider of course). Yes, I believe it will not contain Machine Spirit and will be immune to discordants. It's technoheresy.

Tau, for sure, have their AI in their tech, especially in drones and drone intelligence networks, but, I believe, it's not that "kind of AI system" that is blocked by discordant ability, who were grew in Hive Cities and other human colonies.

In my opinion it's kind of innate psy ability that are manifested that strange way; such saint miracles or sacred temple lands are manifesting of humans psy field; not so powerful as WAAAAAAGH!!! one, but every damned human who is not untouchable have some kind of psychic potential.

I view it in a similar fashion to Aenno. Humans are so religious and influenced by belief, as well as being more than a little Psychic, that their pervasive belief in how technology works via magical spirits has created a type of Psyker that disables technology because enough people believe that because technology is alive, that a powerful Psyker might start to subconsciously disable technology around them as a result.

It's not science, it's magic!

Wasn't one of the powers that sanctioned psykers in the Imperial Guard could have curse machine?

Perhaps Discordants have a curse machine aura so it is a psychic power just not one they can consciously control.

Wasn't one of the powers that sanctioned psykers in the Imperial Guard could have curse machine?

It was indeed.

And I always seemed to roll that power when I was up against Tyranids.

The relationship between magic and technology is frustrating, as is the possibility of the existence of Machine Spirits in general. The Imperium believes in them with the force of quadrillions of followers, but that doesn't mean there are actually tiny life forms inside of our machines. It could just be that the execution time of programs is setup a certain way, the Mechanicus have some sort of AR-implant that abstracts programming into the concept of spirits and any strange behaviour is just the shoddy Imperial programming kicking in.

On the other hand it says something about the setting that it doesn't mean Machine Spirits aren't real, and there might be tiny life forms living in all of our guns that help them fire.

However I'd say that anything that's non-primitive would be affected by a Discordant.

From a realism standpoint, the idea of machine spirits is equally frustrating to me. It was one of the things that was hardest to swallow when I first started getting deeper into the fluff of 40k. I do like your idea about shite programming almost mimicking a personality.

That said, my understanding is that many believe the Omnissiah and Emperor are essentially one being. Given that the Emperor is God and, thus, everywhere... wouldn't it be plausible, with the confines of the fluff, to believe that a little bit of Emprah is in my coffee maker?

That said, my understanding is that many believe the Omnissiah and Emperor are essentially one being. Given that the Emperor is God and, thus, everywhere... wouldn't it be plausible, with the confines of the fluff, to believe that a little bit of Emprah is in my coffee maker?

Has anyone considered this "thing" to be possibly interpreted as a "psionic" rust-touch power (think - Molecular Rearrangement or breakdown of their bonds)?

I'd potentially exclude Ork tech from being influenced by a discordant if there were enough Orks in the area. Even then I'd probably rule that the 'Make it Work' trait becomes non-functional in the presence of a discordant.

I do like this. Maybe make it a contested Willpower Roll in this case.

Your Tech does not work!

YES IT ZOGGIN' DOES!

[Pulls trigger] BOOM!