I'm going to be the Overlord for a campaign starting soon using Heirs of Blood. I was thinking of using the Basic II deck, just for something a little bit different. Is that a bad idea? My thought is that the Basic I deck is probably stronger, but that there are some interesting possibilities with Basic II. I don't want to doom myself to a campaign loss from the outset, however, simply by my choice of decks. What are people's thoughts? Is there a big difference? Thanks!

Key point- while you definitely should have an idea what your strategy is, you do not need to pick your deck until after the heroes pick their heroes and classes. This is critical, as Basic 2 relies on conventional hero weaknesses to maximize effectiveness.

For example, mages usually have low willpower, which makes "Uncontrolled Power" an incredible card. However, if your heroes picked 4 willpower Astarra, or a champion who can let heroes reroll willpower tests, the card might be less effective.

Warriors tend to have low knowledge- this makes blinding speed an almost certain 2 MP, and if they also have a low awareness, you've probably got 6 MP in the bag- that's better than Dash. However, if you heroes picked Alys with knowledge 4, or a warrior with high awareness like Durik, Dash quickly becomes a more reliable card.

Frenzy is better than Flurry, hands down, and there are 2 of them. If you are a brute force OL, Basic 2 might not be for you.

Dirty Fighting is better than Dark Might, hands down.

Grease Trap is damaging, but doesn't actually trap the hero.

There are obvious synergies, like the Belthir plot deck with Basic.

I have won campaigns with Basic 2, and I have lost campaigns with Basic. It really comes down to the hero party you're fighting, and how your cards draw. Basic 2 has the potential to be really, really devastating in the right circumstances, but it takes a lot of work, and many of the cards are left to chance (luckily, it's got Befuddle!) Basic has more raw power, but is also significantly less interesting.

Another point about Basic 2 is that it reacts to the heroes. The heroes can bring death on themselves if they aren't careful when Basic 2 is in play, but there isn't so much they can do to avoid cards in Basic. As a result, you can use Basic 2 to manipulate your heroes into performing (or not performing) certain actions, which can be to your benefit.

Our group felt that Basic I was way more powerful than Basic II. However, Basic I was used our first campaign (when we were all new to descent 2nd) and Basic II was used in our second campaign when we were more experienced. We also played a different campaign, with different heroes and overlord the second time around, so it's hard to say for sure. But our general feel is that Basic I is less situational and has better more useful "allaround" cards, while Basic II have cards that can be really useful on a specific turn or against specific heroes, but close to useless in other turns or other heroes.

My dice are fickle sometimes, so I really don't like the random nature of Basic II. If the heroes are spot on with their attribute tests, Basic II can be an exercise in frustration as card after card has no impact on the board.

On a card-by-card analysis, Basic II only edges out Basic I *if* the attribute tests are in your favor.

Basic I is something you can rely on, and that is really important to me when planning my strategies. The more I can reduce randomness, the better. Of course, this is very much a subjective position.

However, as Zaltyre said, if you are want to play Basic II, first pay very close attention to the attribute spread of your heroes. If they pick unconventional heroes with strengths where they should be weaknesses you are going to have an awful time with Basic II. However, if they pick heroes with '1s' in key attributes that your cards target, Basic II quickly becomes reliable. Plot decks like Baron Zachareth make Basic II even better as he can fudge hero attribute tests for you. If stars like these align, Basic II suddenly becomes a powerhouse.

Finally, if you like a brawling, aggressive playstyle and the heroes are short on healing or anti-aggression heroes (e.g. Andira or Leoric) its hard to beat Bel'thir + Basic I. This combination is devastating with the right monsters and can result in total-party-kills quite regularly. This is great for quest which involve defeating the heroes to complete objectives. Really though, just about any quest where you can pull off a TPK on the heroes is almost a sure win for the OL anyway.

Very helpful information, exactly what I was looking for. Thank you! I think I might be in the mood to go for the interest factor of Basic II, but just wanted to be sure that wasn't going to be an enormous mistake for some unforeseen reason. I'm not really looking to dominate the hero party into total submission, but didn't want to give them an undeserved edge either.. I'll make the final decision after seeing their party composition though. It's about a month away yet, sadly.

I used Basic II in my solo campaign and I have to say it was pretty devastating. It does force testing quite a bit, so if you have a way to manipulate that in your favor, then it's great. Blinding Speed has potential to give a monster 4 extra MPs, Uncontrolled Power can nullify a mage attack and inflict fatigue and health damage to boot. Then there is Reflective Ward that can just fatigue a hero or damage the heck out them. Befuddle messes up attribute tests. Mimic just makes searching a hassle. Grease Trap is handy early on though I ditched it later. Flurry is great as well. Dirty Fighting can screw the Healer up fast ( but it tended to get weaker as the Campaign went on.) All in all, I think it's alot more powerful in the early going, which is great because it helps you to get those more powerful cards for later.

Each deck has it's advantages. I say try it out and see how it goes.

basic 2 depends on how you play and the heroes in front of you.

If you're going to play shadowmancer, Basic 2 is way stronger than Basic 1, same for web trap, etc ... because you can make them reroll dice and loosing time and action in multiple ways.

Basic 2 is used essentially to make lose time and action to heroes, and make them unsure if all actions will be fufilled or lost

If you're using Basic 2, remember to use changelings, dark priests, and all other monsters that can make heroes' attributes lower to be sure that you cards will work

Lately I´ve been using Basic II exclusively and never looked back ever since. I find that the flexibility of Basic II outshadows the punch coming out of the Basic I deck. But that's for my own playstyle and I think it might be coming down to that - in a vacuum.

Basic I comes with a lot of fat (weak cards) while all Basic II cards have some relevance, it's just some of them may be harder to pull out based on heroes attributes. I cut them as soon as I can for some juicy Shadowmancer cards for best effect.

I also find interesting strategically speaking to find cards that have possible double effects based on hero archetype. This makes up for a nice granularity in the choices you can make as the OL.

Basic I is more straight forward, but now that my hero players have learnt how to properly choose their heroes and skill up, I as the OL seldom can interact with them with brute force in the later game. I find more utility in Basic II when taking the long term into account. I think Basic I is very strong in the early campaign when knocking down heroes remains a viable strategy, Once all heroes have gotten harder to kill I normally switch to dealing conditions instead, with the whole package of monsters doing this exact thing, supported by Befuddles and the likes. I basically NEED all of these trap-like cards to stop them, once we´ve gotten to the point where killing them doesn't advance my position any longer besides making me draw a card.

Some people also pick Basic II just to get Mimic. This card is just the nuts, along with the Curse of the Monkey God card (note this one is not a basic card).

Otherwise it depends on many factors:

- Your own playstyle. Sneaky or agressive?

- Your hero players' playstyle. Overly careful or all-in?

- The monsters you have access to. Brute force or utility?

- Your future OL card purchases. I try to stick to a roadmap and adapt it later if required. Which branch will you be digging into?

- Your plot deck. Any possible synergy with your OL cards? You want to exploit these as much as you can.

Note: I'm looking forward to playing Basic III with monster trait-based effects

Wow, what a wealth of fantastic ploys and great ideas! Thanks guys! Really glad I brought this up. I should probably apologize in advance to the hero party I'm facing.. I had no idea there would be this many possibilities of focused strategies to use on them. Basic II sounds like the best choice all of a sudden. Of course it's possible that one of the hero players I'll be facing is reading all this....and will react accordingly. I wouldn't put it past him. I suppose that's fair though.

Basic III...? Is there really such a thing in development?

Such a thing exists only in hopes and dreams as far as we know. I do not know of any indication that there is actually such a thing in development.

Personnally I would use Basic 2 + Raythen's plot deck + Bandits + Placebo + Hunk of Junk (is possible) and Shadowmancer, web trap, and in act 2, crypt dragon and Dark Priest and Changelings

So, this way, heroes will lose many time during the act 1, making them lost search cards as many as possible, to be sure to crush them on act 2

You can also change plot deck with Splig (goblin uprising) and summon him in a full group like fire Imps, Kobolds, Bandits, and cumulate as many Threat tokens as possible during act 1

Basic III...? Is there really such a thing in development?

Such a thing exists only in hopes and dreams as far as we know. I do not know of any indication that there is actually such a thing in development.

I certainly have many hopes

A new Basic deck would be more likely to be released in a big expansion, after all that's how Basic II came to life. However there hasn't been any announcement made about the next possible big expansion. One can hope, though. I just like to believe this game still has many new paths to explore.

what was released with Nerkenhall? I assumed since it was big box that there was another deck in there.

what was released with Nerkenhall? I assumed since it was big box that there was another deck in there.

No Basic deck in Nerekhall, unfortunately, It was just Labyrinth of Ruin.

You could say Nerekhall came with the Corrupt Citizens as something special for the overlord instead of a new basic deck. Same as the Bilehall expansion now comes with the Tainted cards.

There were also shadowmancer cards.

I pretty much exclusively use Basic II, I find it to be much more useful than Basic I. While the individual cards may be less powerful than dash and frenzy, they tend to be useful in a wider array of situations and synergize better with other cards you can purchase. Befuddle, for example, is one of the best cards period because many quests require attribute tests, and many other cards you buy that are strong require attribute tests. Basic I has a lot of pretty terrible cards in it, like poison dart.

Additionally, I adore Mimic. I've won many a quest with a mimic coming out of nowhere to kill a villager, or just denying treasure by having the treasure get up and run away.

Many a time I had Logan search, get a Mimic which lead to him being Koed. Yeah... it's fun for the OL to play and makes heroes really think about whether to search or not if they've seen it enough times.

this is actually an interresting topic, i have rather recently played through the first campaign which the game is shipped with, i had all of the expansions mixed into the game up to the "shadow of nerekhall", i used the Basic II deck as i had previously play with only basic I in some single missions and wanted to try something new.

as the overlord, the conclusion i came to after we finished the campaign was.

as you are 1 mind against many (1 overlord vs 2-4 other players)

if you are the game host (the person keeping track of setting up the map, reading up all the flavour text etc etc etc)

if you drink beer during your game sessions

if you have a rather relaxed and roleplaying feeling about the game ( i was pitched up against 3 extremely competitive people)

you really want to minimize the amount of thinking you need to do if 1 or more of the 4 above lines falls into your category of gaming style.

im going to use Basic I in my next game , although i can see some advantages of Basic II (i should probably also point out that the heroes ruled that "Uncontrolled Power" only does as much damage as the monster is able to take ie. if the monster has 1 hp left and the hero does 10 damage, only 1 damage is reflected back, this was before reading the updated rules)

Basic II is far more useful against players who know you are using Basic II, and know what is in it.

You WANT them to wonder if you have a mimic card, half the time you don't, but making them hesitate to send the treasure hunter off alone to get a search token means they either skip it and have less gold/gear for the next round, or they waste time moving everyone down the hall and jeopardize their objective.

You WANT them to wonder if you have an Uncontrolled Power card when their mage has 2 hp left and wants to fatigue out to wipe the last group off the map to secure victory. Forcing them to rest or heal instead, setting them back another round (and keeping the card to boot).

Making them give up their own turns worrying about what you have in your hand is far more powerful than trying to FORCE them to expend their turns by expending your resources.

I could not have said that better. That's why I love basic 2.

I found Basic II to be far more useful as well. Until there is a Basic III, I'll stick with it.

Hilariously enough, as the heroes, your optimal moves are typically to pretend the overlord doesn't have cards and just take the hit when they get played, because you can't know what's in the overlord's hand and can't do anything to stop it anyway.

Hilariously enough, as the heroes, your optimal moves are typically to pretend the overlord doesn't have cards and just take the hit when they get played, because you can't know what's in the overlord's hand and can't do anything to stop it anyway.

::cough:: Danger sense... Elder Mok... Shadow plotter... Marshal!! ::cough::

But yes, in most circumstances I agree with you.

Hilariously enough, as the heroes, your optimal moves are typically to pretend the overlord doesn't have cards and just take the hit when they get played, because you can't know what's in the overlord's hand and can't do anything to stop it anyway.

::cough:: Danger sense... Elder Mok... Shadow plotter... Marshal!! ::cough::

But yes, in most circumstances I agree with you.

With that stuff you have a tool to attack the cards directly, but even with those you typically just ignore the cards while using the abilities.

For example, if you know the overlord has a web trap in his hand, you're better off just making him use it as fast as possible rather than being extremely careful to move without ever moving adjacent to an ally and moving slower for the rest of the mission.

Make the overlord use the cards, don't let fear of them hinder your actions at all. By forcing him to use them, he won't get a huge hand of cards to dump on you at the worst time for you.