I've done some pretty extensive testing on this one. Pure, lean, grade-A Sith. Hardest fight I had was against Nera Dantels and Wedge with a bunch of APT's and a Rookie Pilot Blocker.
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29
Lone Wolf - 2
Advanced Targeting Computer - 1
Engine Upgrade - 4
TIE/x1 - 0
Ship Total: 36
Rear Admiral Chiraneau — Decimator 46
Determination - 1
Emperor Palpatine - 8
Ysanne Isard - 4
Engine Upgrade - 4
Ship Total: 63
Squadron Total: 99
This list took second in our local tournament today-
Chiraneau
Predator
Ysanne
Palpatine
Whisper
VI
FCS
ACD
This list took second in our local tournament today-
Chiraneau
Predator
Ysanne
Palpatine
Whisper
VI
FCS
ACD
Think I'd prefer Kenkirk to Chiraneau, trading around to get an Engine Upgrade as well.
What about those TLTs? Dont they eat those decimators?
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29
Predator 3
Advanced Targeting Computer 1
Stealth Device 3
TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 36
Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21
Emperor Palpatine 8
Ship Total: 29
Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
Stealth Device 3
Royal Guard TIE 0
Ship Total: 35
100 points
I think I like this one better
Drop the SDs and put EU on Vader and TC on Soontir and you have my next (to be flown) list!
See I like the SD, I have been using EU on Vader and it has put me in more trouble than got me out of TBH. I prefer the idea of having an extra agility and with EP turning an undesirable result into an evade for you, your laughin all the way to the bank
I find Palpatine really interesting. Whilst I really like the idea of him on a shuttle in a competitive setting I don't think it adds enough value as it has too many holes to always function.
The reason a Vader shuttle works is because you are expecting it to die and so you inherently get the value out of it by forcing through extra damage on a relatively low cost ship, replacing Vader with the Big E, completely reverses this mindset as you now need the shuttle to live for as long as possible to get the value out of Palps.
This forces you to either fly the shuttle in a way that its only contribution is a glancing shot every once in a while and the Emperors modification of a dice, this (in my opinion) wastes the shuttles main advantage of having an excellent stat line for its points value due to its poor dial.
Everyone know how bad a shuttle is after its initial pass and you are effectively neutering that pass to keep Palpatine safe.
That leaves only the VT-49 as an option outside of epic play and having 0 Evade and a higher price point affects how useful he can be as he needs to make a difference every turn. All of this leads me to say that the BEST Palpatine build will involve Kenkirk and as with any named Decimator should also include Issard.
After that it is a case of filling to taste, I like Predator to keep some form of offensive output but as always see the value in Determination on a named VT-49, I also personally don't bother with Engine Upgrade on him (heresy for me as I firmly believe that EU is the best upgrade in the game!)
The other ships in the list come down to your local meta and play style but the fewer dice that are rolled per round the bigger his impact should be.
Kris
I find Palpatine really interesting. Whilst I really like the idea of him on a shuttle in a competitive setting I don't think it adds enough value as it has too many holes to always function.
The reason a Vader shuttle works is because you are expecting it to die and so you inherently get the value out of it by forcing through extra damage on a relatively low cost ship, replacing Vader with the Big E, completely reverses this mindset as you now need the shuttle to live for as long as possible to get the value out of Palps.
This forces you to either fly the shuttle in a way that its only contribution is a glancing shot every once in a while and the Emperors modification of a dice, this (in my opinion) wastes the shuttles main advantage of having an excellent stat line for its points value due to its poor dial.
Everyone know how bad a shuttle is after its initial pass and you are effectively neutering that pass to keep Palpatine safe.
That leaves only the VT-49 as an option outside of epic play and having 0 Evade and a higher price point affects how useful he can be as he needs to make a difference every turn. All of this leads me to say that the BEST Palpatine build will involve Kenkirk and as with any named Decimator should also include Issard.
After that it is a case of filling to taste, I like Predator to keep some form of offensive output but as always see the value in Determination on a named VT-49, I also personally don't bother with Engine Upgrade on him (heresy for me as I firmly believe that EU is the best upgrade in the game!)
The other ships in the list come down to your local meta and play style but the fewer dice that are rolled per round the bigger his impact should be.
Kris
Here's the thing about Palpy on a shuttle: your opponent cannot ignore him. I repeat, cannot ignore him! The psychological impact is enormous! Because normally, flying a couple interceptors is quite difficult getting around the first exchange. Normally a savvy opponent flies his list at your interceptors and blocks/focusses fires until one is dead, then you are playing catchup all game trying to get into a favourable position. But with palpy on the shuttle, you can fly your interceptors aggressively and almost without any risk since your opponent is going after that shuttle. Thus you are trading the shuttle (29 pts) for some good mid-game positioning and hopefully your interceptors have been able to deal some good damage in the early part. Even if you don't kill some amount of your opponent equal to the shuttle, you still end up with better positioning. And positioning is everything when flying interceptors. At that point, its very difficult for your opponent to regroup his ships and take out even one of your interceptors. So it tends to work quite well. Obviously there may be exceptions, and I'm talking in fairly general terms, but so far for me, the palpyshuttle has been worthwhile.
For me the alternative is to run Turr w/ PtL + autothrusters in place of palp's shuttle (I already have Fel & Jax), and I just don't feel like I can set up as favourable mid/end game positioning with triple interceptors. Plus, I tend to lose one interceptor early anway, and sometimes without getting as much damage/position advantage as I do with the shuttle. So for now, I'm happy with the shuttle in there.
at my LGS someone ran (i know i saw it on here somewhere) The Baron, The Emperor, the Dark lord.
Fel
PTL
title
AT
SD
Vader
LW
Title
ATC
EU
OGP
Palp
75 minutes later, no one died, no one killed. 75 minute stalemate. didnt pay attention to the details, because i was flying my own stuff, but hilarious outcome if you ask me.
I find Palpatine really interesting. Whilst I really like the idea of him on a shuttle in a competitive setting I don't think it adds enough value as it has too many holes to always function.
The reason a Vader shuttle works is because you are expecting it to die and so you inherently get the value out of it by forcing through extra damage on a relatively low cost ship, replacing Vader with the Big E, completely reverses this mindset as you now need the shuttle to live for as long as possible to get the value out of Palps.
This forces you to either fly the shuttle in a way that its only contribution is a glancing shot every once in a while and the Emperors modification of a dice, this (in my opinion) wastes the shuttles main advantage of having an excellent stat line for its points value due to its poor dial.
Everyone know how bad a shuttle is after its initial pass and you are effectively neutering that pass to keep Palpatine safe.
That leaves only the VT-49 as an option outside of epic play and having 0 Evade and a higher price point affects how useful he can be as he needs to make a difference every turn. All of this leads me to say that the BEST Palpatine build will involve Kenkirk and as with any named Decimator should also include Issard.
After that it is a case of filling to taste, I like Predator to keep some form of offensive output but as always see the value in Determination on a named VT-49, I also personally don't bother with Engine Upgrade on him (heresy for me as I firmly believe that EU is the best upgrade in the game!)
The other ships in the list come down to your local meta and play style but the fewer dice that are rolled per round the bigger his impact should be.
Kris
Here's the thing about Palpy on a shuttle: your opponent cannot ignore him. I repeat, cannot ignore him! The psychological impact is enormous! Because normally, flying a couple interceptors is quite difficult getting around the first exchange. Normally a savvy opponent flies his list at your interceptors and blocks/focusses fires until one is dead, then you are playing catchup all game trying to get into a favourable position. But with palpy on the shuttle, you can fly your interceptors aggressively and almost without any risk since your opponent is going after that shuttle. Thus you are trading the shuttle (29 pts) for some good mid-game positioning and hopefully your interceptors have been able to deal some good damage in the early part. Even if you don't kill some amount of your opponent equal to the shuttle, you still end up with better positioning. And positioning is everything when flying interceptors. At that point, its very difficult for your opponent to regroup his ships and take out even one of your interceptors. So it tends to work quite well. Obviously there may be exceptions, and I'm talking in fairly general terms, but so far for me, the palpyshuttle has been worthwhile.
For me the alternative is to run Turr w/ PtL + autothrusters in place of palp's shuttle (I already have Fel & Jax), and I just don't feel like I can set up as favourable mid/end game positioning with triple interceptors. Plus, I tend to lose one interceptor early anway, and sometimes without getting as much damage/position advantage as I do with the shuttle. So for now, I'm happy with the shuttle in there.
I get the theory behind it and player skill is obviously a factor.
I just don't think you are going to get the point value out of the shuttle and a Vader Shuttle with Gunner would probably contribute more to a game than Palps would. (YMMV)
Kris
At a Local tournament We had the winner run a Omicron with Emperor Palp, Sensor Jammer and the ST-321 title, Carnor with PTL, Autothrusters and Targeting Computer and Zertik Strom with Predator, Tie/x1 and Advanced Targeting Computer.
I find Palpatine really interesting. Whilst I really like the idea of him on a shuttle in a competitive setting I don't think it adds enough value as it has too many holes to always function.
The reason a Vader shuttle works is because you are expecting it to die and so you inherently get the value out of it by forcing through extra damage on a relatively low cost ship, replacing Vader with the Big E, completely reverses this mindset as you now need the shuttle to live for as long as possible to get the value out of Palps.
This forces you to either fly the shuttle in a way that its only contribution is a glancing shot every once in a while and the Emperors modification of a dice, this (in my opinion) wastes the shuttles main advantage of having an excellent stat line for its points value due to its poor dial.
Everyone know how bad a shuttle is after its initial pass and you are effectively neutering that pass to keep Palpatine safe.
That leaves only the VT-49 as an option outside of epic play and having 0 Evade and a higher price point affects how useful he can be as he needs to make a difference every turn. All of this leads me to say that the BEST Palpatine build will involve Kenkirk and as with any named Decimator should also include Issard.
After that it is a case of filling to taste, I like Predator to keep some form of offensive output but as always see the value in Determination on a named VT-49, I also personally don't bother with Engine Upgrade on him (heresy for me as I firmly believe that EU is the best upgrade in the game!)
The other ships in the list come down to your local meta and play style but the fewer dice that are rolled per round the bigger his impact should be.
Kris
Here's the thing about Palpy on a shuttle: your opponent cannot ignore him. I repeat, cannot ignore him! The psychological impact is enormous! Because normally, flying a couple interceptors is quite difficult getting around the first exchange. Normally a savvy opponent flies his list at your interceptors and blocks/focusses fires until one is dead, then you are playing catchup all game trying to get into a favourable position. But with palpy on the shuttle, you can fly your interceptors aggressively and almost without any risk since your opponent is going after that shuttle. Thus you are trading the shuttle (29 pts) for some good mid-game positioning and hopefully your interceptors have been able to deal some good damage in the early part. Even if you don't kill some amount of your opponent equal to the shuttle, you still end up with better positioning. And positioning is everything when flying interceptors. At that point, its very difficult for your opponent to regroup his ships and take out even one of your interceptors. So it tends to work quite well. Obviously there may be exceptions, and I'm talking in fairly general terms, but so far for me, the palpyshuttle has been worthwhile.
For me the alternative is to run Turr w/ PtL + autothrusters in place of palp's shuttle (I already have Fel & Jax), and I just don't feel like I can set up as favourable mid/end game positioning with triple interceptors. Plus, I tend to lose one interceptor early anway, and sometimes without getting as much damage/position advantage as I do with the shuttle. So for now, I'm happy with the shuttle in there.
So have you basically been running the Soontir, Jax, and Palpatinian Lambda build FFG offered as a sample list in the article before the Raider came out? This is a sincere question, not snarkiness about the list's source, BTW. I liked the idea of that last both for thematic reasons and just liking how each of the ships flew, and just wondering if you've found it to be viable at all.
So have you basically been running the Soontir, Jax, and Palpatinian Lambda build FFG offered as a sample list in the article before the Raider came out? This is a sincere question, not snarkiness about the list's source, BTW. I liked the idea of that last both for thematic reasons and just liking how each of the ships flew, and just wondering if you've found it to be viable at all.
I don't think its exactly the same (can't remember the original), but I got the idea from it.
I've been running:
Omnicron w/ palpatine = 29
Jax w/ PtL, title, AT & hull = 34
Fel w/ PtL, title, AT & TC = 34
97
Now I realize stealth is actually better on Fel with palpatine, because even without tokens, Fel might not take any damage, but palpatine will die and I prefer to have an endgame ship that is a threat to anything (han, corran and other stealth Fel's can be dealt with if you have TL + focus). And with the healthy initiative bid, I can move last against other PS9 which helps a lot...
Ahhhhh, very interesting. Flew the list with the Stealth Devices on both Interceptors tonight and I totally see your point - VI Corran was a freaking nightmare after the shuttle went down.
I seem to never defeat my kids' superior skills outrageously lucky dice rolls, but I'm going to try this!
Commander Kenkirk (44)
Determination (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Emperor Palpatine (8)
Ysanne Isard (4)
Seismic Charges (2)
Tactical Jammer (1)
Darth Vader (29)
Push the Limit (3)
Proton Rockets (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x1 (0)
Total: 99
View in Yet Another Squad Builder
The twin ion engine gives Vader 8 green maneuvers to shed stress, with PTL he gets 3 actions!
The seismic charges give the opponent maneuver considerations, and the tac jammer gives Vader more cover, and 1 point spared for Initiative.
A buddy of mine was running the Vader, Soontir, and OGP with Palpatine build chilligan against my Han/Jake. After multiple games, I found it next to impossible to crack Soontir even with prockets while he had the Emperor dice mod. Those two are a perfect pair, but I think Vader is better without an EPT foe a 2 point bid.
With arc dodgers, why would you want initiative?
A buddy of mine was running the Vader, Soontir, and OGP with Palpatine build chilligan against my Han/Jake. After multiple games, I found it next to impossible to crack Soontir even with prockets while he had the Emperor dice mod. Those two are a perfect pair, but I think Vader is better without an EPT foe a 2 point bid.
With arc dodgers, why would you want initiative?
Having a higher initiative bid than your opponent gives you the ability to force THEM to have initiative!