I'm thinking, Going into what will be probably the largest increase in diversity in a while here soon with wave seven, wave eight on the horizon, the Advanced soon to be back on tables hopefully and Epic play now finally building a head of steam. And still at the moment stuck in the two ship meta, arguably three now really. And gosh darn there's just too much cool stuff to play! Heard of many playing higher point games recently too. So here's to a discussion on higher point limits, or not, in any format.

Personally I want to try standard 150 and Epic singles at 400.

I've had a few thoughts that 120 is a good number. Can change a generic pilot or two to named ones and throw in a couple of upgrades over a 100 point list to use a few more things in that ever-expanding bag of tricks. Or it is just one additional cheap ship for either faction for a bit more suport.

I think the problem with just upping the points cost in standard dogfights will just be swarms getting more swarmy, fat ships getting more escorts, and Brobots getting their 3rd bro.

Actually the fact that X-wing doesn't have to up the limit unlike a more recent game from FFG cough*Armada*cough* is a testament to the structure and balance of X-wing.

Now as I said point creep will come but I think it is best to keep it far away as possible to keep the game accessible and increase the longevity. Some older Table top games used to have a modest point limit for a standard competitive game and over the years that point limit has increased (Warhammer Fantasy ahem* AoS point creep has went up to infinity). That makes the game more expensive to the point where some regular players drop out and newer players can't afford to start a game.

So I say again, DON'T RUSH THE POINT CREEP. It will come, but the later it comes the better.

Was actually interested in bringing this topic up my self. I personally love 150 point games as they don't generally take to long and allow alot of ships you don't see very often to really shine. Hell at 150 Ordinance actually seems worth it cause now no matter what he takes at 150 he's likely gonna have enough ships that paying for AoE is worth it.

Was working on a list earlier for when I get more Ywings and the new tokens, I call Bombs Away! for obvious reasons

x2 Syndicate Thug - Extra Mun, Bomb Loadout, Autoblaster Turret, Unhinged Astro, Cluster Mines

x1 Syndicate Thug - Extra Mun, Bomb Loadout, Genius, Proton Bombs

x1 N'Dru Suhlak - Cluster Missles, Glitterstim

x1 Emon Azz - Assault Missiles, Cluster Mines, Int Agent, Slave I, Extra Mun

Should be fun. I'm curious what other people would do with 150 points.

150 is WAY, WAY more fun.

For times at tournaments I'm not sure if 150 is good. It might be or not I'm not sure if it would slow down things much or not. In casual play an extra 15-20 minutes is not a big deal. But it would be in tournament timed play.

In general, there certainly is a trade off between spam and power control. So far all the game was designed for pretty strict 100pt limits and it shows beautifully. To be fair to Armada, the point increase there had been intentional from the design stage so that early investment and product wasn't too taxing to the target markets.

The Games Workshop game lines were always about product sales more than any kind of balance at all, and their newest Age of Sigmar game is fairly groundbreaking in how it goes about allowing the product to sell as it has been meant to, and provide the casual-to-the-limit game it was meant to, all at the same time. And it's working. Heck I'm losing one of my playgroup to it as it has pulled him back in. And he had fairly vehemently swore off the company.

While thinking about this though, another thing occurred to me. X-wing as it's always been has never had as much problem with dice luck as other games often will. It has a few but nothing so terrible. Everyone knows a simple way to solve that issue is to have more items to roll for knowing that you should get closer to average as your sample increases. Is this in anyone's thoughts?

150 points means 4x brobots with title, or three of them loaded out. Also 12z/tie swarms. The game isnt balanced with the higher point limit in mind, so things start to break down.

150 is WAY, WAY more fun.

For times at tournaments I'm not sure if 150 is good. It might be or not I'm not sure if it would slow down things much or not. In casual play an extra 15-20 minutes is not a big deal. But it would be in tournament timed play.

15 minuets has been added on. Rounds are now set to 75 minuets from 60 minutes can no longer be set to 60 minuetes. So in a way there already is some sort of point creep although the purpose of this change was to reduce the impact MOV has in timed rounds and lists that are built around them.

Swarm would get a brutal increase, and would eliminate any Fat list - the fatties get 1 or 2 extra ships, but even when they perform perfect you will have 9 - 10 ships in the swarm left when the first salvo goes off, and at least 7 for the second. No way for a deci or YT1300 will survive that, and a YT2400 will be heavily damaged if it gets past that. The swarm will still not be the super no brainer list, it's tricky to maneuver and it is prone to tricked out 6 ship lists (some fancy phantom builds for example).

I just mentioned an increase to 150 points for future games in our gaming group (100 really is too limiting with all the toys available), we will run a few and see what happens.

I would like to see small variations in points between tournaments. Some would be 100 points, others 105 etc. Keeps the meta fresh within the current structure.

I think it's a great idea. I'm used to GW game events with 2-3 hours per round, so I have no problem pushing the 75 minute time limit out more.

I also have no problem with fat turrets having to struggle a bit

Seems like the point costs for everything would be off, since they were no doubt designed, tested and balanced with 100 point fleets in mind.

If higher point totals become a thing then you might see swarms getting bigger and stronger as people adapt and gather more ships. But for now the occasional oddball game at higher points can be a lot of fun.

In a local league our last game was at 200 points. I could only put 9 TIE fighters on the table because that is all I have. (I only had the 9 because there was a new player who wanted to trade away a TIE fighter from the core set.) So I had 9 TIEs (six named with upgrades +3 APs) and Whisper. My opponent ran a 4-ship rebel list with Horn, Dash, Cewy and Tycho. Tycho and Chewy had assault missiles. I was worried that I didn't have enough ships. That feeling was reinforced when Tycho popped an AP with his assault missiles in round 1 and damaged 3 other TIEs. But I pulled it out.

I'd be all for higher point limits. Maybe 125.

As for the comment about Armada, that game was always intended to ultimately be 400 points. They just are doing it slowly so that people don't have to buy a ton of wave one just to compete and then have useless extras later on. I'm all for that.

Once upon a time... a 100pt tournament was run with 60minute rounds.
Then that became 75minutes.

I see no real issue with running say a 110 or 120pt tournament with 75 - 90 minute rounds.

My local group has run an escalation tournament and a 2v2 150 point tournament, followed by an upcoming 1v1 150 point tournament.

Got swept at the escalation, took 2nd at the 2v2 (dash/Corran/Kenyan/bandit with ion pulse was amazing)

Currently considering a loaded boba/iggy B/double black sum enforcer build for the solo tourney. I've had success with iggy and the vipers, it was 7-3 in my regional prep/regional run. Colloquially, it's earned the nickname #cobrasquad.

Boba fett just adds more oh crap to the list.

Actually the fact that X-wing doesn't have to up the limit unlike a more recent game from FFG cough*Armada*cough* is a testament to the structure and balance of X-wing.

Armada is 400 points. It is currently lower because wave 2 is not arrived yet. Just like X-Wing, during wave 1 the limit was 40 points.

And increasing the limit past 100 points open the door for very too much broken combos.

Higher points makes the game more fun and I believe MORE BALANCED! We almost exclusively have been playing 150 point matches and one of the benefits is that it takes away the idea of one ship dominating or the loss of any specific ship crushing a side! All ships have a purpose in the end!

A simple restriction of "8" (or whatever number deemed appropriate) ships of one type, solves the "swarm too big" issue!

Higher points is the way to go! Also, its fun making guys think outside the box by changing things up! Kind of like escalation!!

Higher points makes the game more fun and I believe MORE BALANCED! We almost exclusively have been playing 150 point matches and one of the benefits is that it takes away the idea of one ship dominating or the loss of any specific ship crushing a side! All ships have a purpose in the end!

A simple restriction of "8" (or whatever number deemed appropriate) ships of one type, solves the "swarm too big" issue!

Higher points is the way to go! Also, its fun making guys think outside the box by changing things up! Kind of like escalation!!

Did your group allow more than 2 Brobots? As mentioned above they can be a problem when playing with more than 100pts, as EVERY single of them gets up to 4 pilot special abilities.

nope.

100pts is where it is at.

No need to change it just because some ships cost alot. thats the whole point to the point limit. Make it fit.

150 points is a fun way to play casual games, but 100 points has been and should remain the tournament standard. The low initial "buy-in" for new X-Wing players, the shorter match times, and the limitations that 100 points puts on list-building are all good for the game.

I doubt the 100 point limit is going anywhere, but for casual games with friends, 150 points is a fun price point. 400 points seems like a good spot for Epic games when you're fielding a fully loaded CR-90 and a Transport (as long as you're okay with really long games).

I've played a couple 150-point games. I do not see the appeal. It just favors generics and snow-balling.

I have a feeling that 3 Brobots loaded up would absolutely wreck havoc at 150 points. IG-88 A would really shine actually. Have fun fighting three that can all regen shields. You'd have to go after A first and hope you kill him quickly.

The thing about a points limit is that it's supposed to be limiting. Just because you can fit more stuff into 150 points doesn't mean it's a well balanced point level. Restriction is a good thing and breeds well machined, well built lists since you can't just throw in an extra half a list of stuff.

Restriction breeds creativity and the game is well balanced for 100 points. I think increasing the standard point value would be one of the worst things ffg could do.