They could always just do Juyo as a universal like the Recruiter is in Age of Rebellion. While the Warrior book is the most logical I could see them not wanting to double up on lightsaber forms for them and instead just making it a universal form.

Don't believe there will be anymore universal specializations. They would have had it in the core if they would have done it.

I think some careers will have a second form and some careers will have a nonjedi tradition or something else worth taking.

You don't think non Jedi specializations wouldn't be made into universal specializations? I figure it would make more sense to do them as their own thing than attach them to a Jedi career. I don't see the logic in say the Witches of Dathimore being attached to say the Consular.

I don't think so. Other option would be to come out with ano ther core but they will most likely not have specializations that are not tied to a career unless they did that for the other two systems first.

I don't think so. Other option would be to come out with ano ther core but they will most likely not have specializations that are not tied to a career unless they did that for the other two systems first.

The other two games have specializations not attached to a career. So there is precedent for the move. EotE has the Force Exile and AoR has the Force Sensitive and the Recruiter. F&D is the only one that actually didn't introduce a universal specialization in their core.

Yeah but Jar'Kai says it is a Niman alternative

where? And why would they put the picture in Seeker if that is not where it would be?

Page 68, the sidebar.

"Similarly, some who study Niman also learn to fight with two lightsabers, eabling them to be even more effective against multiple opponents."

Which is a nod to the link and evolution of Jar'Kai from Niman.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jar%27Kai

The picture you're referring to (which is in the Mystic career, btw) is explained in the sidebar on page 80...

"Makashi Duelists use a single lightsaber, sometimes with an off-hand shoto."

So both of you are correct, but if you want to talk about a Jar'Kai spec it should be an evolution of Niman (which is Consular, not Mystic).

Still, there's plenty of evidence that two-bladed lightsaber fighting isn't exclusive to one form. Jar'Kai is a pure two blade technique, but other Forms incorperate dual blades (or Saberstaffs) into their use as well.

*shrug*

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I don't think so. Other option would be to come out with ano ther core but they will most likely not have specializations that are not tied to a career unless they did that for the other two systems first.

The other two games have specializations not attached to a career. So there is precedent for the move. EotE has the Force Exile and AoR has the Force Sensitive and the Recruiter. F&D is the only one that actually didn't introduce a universal specialization in their core.

Yeah but I think they would have done it in the core already. Unless it is in a adventure or area supplement. Dont think it will, but it wouldn't fit in a splat book for a career

Right, we have universal specs, which are always considered in-career specs and therefore easier and cheaper to get into... what about the opposite? A type of universal spec (restricted? exotic? spec) that is always more expensive, i.e. always considered non-career.

I could accept Juyo and/or Vaapad as one or two different specs that would always be considered non-career. It becomes that much more of an ivestment, with risky pay off.

I'd consider that these arguably could "inflict" one Conflict just by knowing them...

And talking about Form VII, check notable practitioners out on the canon side of things .

You don't think non Jedi specializations wouldn't be made into universal specializations? I figure it would make more sense to do them as their own thing than attach them to a Jedi career. I don't see the logic in say the Witches of Dathimore being attached to say the Consular.

It's important to not become too attached to the names of careers and specializations. A consular is just a name and does not mean that you are associated with the Jedi at all.

I'm hoping we do see a Witch specialization in one of the career books. Perhaps in the Mystic book. These career books are the perfect place for the more obscure force traditions. For instance, the Warden in the guardian book is likely a throwback to the Wardens of the Sky.

You don't think non Jedi specializations wouldn't be made into universal specializations? I figure it would make more sense to do them as their own thing than attach them to a Jedi career. I don't see the logic in say the Witches of Dathimore being attached to say the Consular.

It's important to not become too attached to the names of careers and specializations. A consular is just a name and does not mean that you are associated with the Jedi at all.

I'm hoping we do see a Witch specialization in one of the career books. Perhaps in the Mystic book. These career books are the perfect place for the more obscure force traditions. For instance, the Warden in the guardian book is likely a throwback to the Wardens of the Sky.

Mystic would be good for Witch. It's probably also the book that will have more information on the Baran Do, though I doubt they'll get their own spec. I imagine the Grey Paladins will show up in Warrior as well.

And I agree that the Careers and Specializations are archetypal. I frequently tell players that taking Bounty Hunter or Smuggler does not make you a bounty hunter or a smuggler, if you don't want to be, but it means you'd make a good one.

I wanna see Witches of dathomir, Jensauri, and if FFG ever goes to Legacy an imperial knight

When I read posts like this, i am reminded that I like star wars however, I know next to nothing about it

compared to you guys. I have no idea about lightsaber fighting styles let alone who uses which and how many there are.

When I read posts like this, i am reminded that I like star wars however, I know next to nothing about it

compared to you guys. I have no idea about lightsaber fighting styles let alone who uses which and how many there are.

The beauty is that you don't have to know more than you already do. It's entirely doable to just pick a form based on whatever is your highest stat and run with it. Per Sam Stewart on the Order 66 podcast, that's basically the intention of the route they chose.

You don't think non Jedi specializations wouldn't be made into universal specializations? I figure it would make more sense to do them as their own thing than attach them to a Jedi career. I don't see the logic in say the Witches of Dathimore being attached to say the Consular.

It's important to not become too attached to the names of careers and specializations. A consular is just a name and does not mean that you are associated with the Jedi at all.

I'm hoping we do see a Witch specialization in one of the career books. Perhaps in the Mystic book. These career books are the perfect place for the more obscure force traditions. For instance, the Warden in the guardian book is likely a throwback to the Wardens of the Sky.

Mystic would be good for Witch. It's probably also the book that will have more information on the Baran Do, though I doubt they'll get their own spec.

The Baran Do already have their own specialization: it's the Sage! (ta-da)

And the Witches of Dathomir are kinda messy since they got a pretty major face-lift and reboot in The Clone Wars. The Witches we see in TCW are what Legends sources would call "Nightsisters," and also there don't seem to be any rancors in the mix in canon sources. At any rate, the Hunter and Seer specializations could really well represent the Witches in either source, and the first thing I thought of when I saw the Pathfinder specialization was "Baby rancor!!" So...that might fit, depending on how FFG handles Dathomir. But the Seer specialization is a really great fit for Mother Talzin, and then the Hunter fits nicely with what we see of the rest of the Dathomiri...sneaking around, shooting laser arrows, etc.

I would say that not all Nightsisters are witches. Asajj could well have been a Nightsister, but she was no Witch. Mother Talzin was the witch. So there's plenty of room to include a witch spec.

Well, can't wait for the Warrior source book. Ofcoruse it has to be the last one.

Well we got Jasurai'i in the Keepers of the Peace.

Yeah, Jensaarai and Wardens of the Sky are readily identifiable with the Armorer & Warden specializations in the new Guardian sourcebook. It definitely makes the most sense that we might get some sort of Juyo flavor in the Warrior book. I'm guessing we'll see some Zeison Sha, Seyugi Dervishes, and Juyo possibilities in the specializations. Definitely not those names exactly...perhaps the "Adept," the "Dervish," and the "Juyo Practitioner."

In general: The lightsaber forms in F&D are abstractions (see Djem So being relegated to two talents in Shien expert). I don't think FFG feel too obligated to provide a comprehensive set of lightsaber styles.

On Vaapad: Given that legends implies there were three people who learned it ever it doesn't seem likely to show up.

On Jar'Kai: This seems too narrow for a tree, I don't think it can hope for much more than a name dropped talent or two like Djem So. I definitely don't think it'll turn up with consulars as, while Niman is a basis for it, the reason consulars learn Niman (leaves them more open to use the force) is completely shot if you start using a lightsaber in your other hand.

On Juyo: This is the only one of the three that I think has a good shot of appearing in a meaningful way. The warrior sourcebook seems most likely by far. I do think it could work as a signature ability (take some conflict and get improved offense for a while) since it's pretty thoroughly a warrior style. As a specialisation it would be a good place for a Jar'Kai talent since most instances of two weapon fighting in canon are pretty aggressive.

In general: The lightsaber forms in F&D are abstractions (see Djem So being relegated to two talents in Shien expert). I don't think FFG feel too obligated to provide a comprehensive set of lightsaber styles.

On Vaapad: Given that legends implies there were three people who learned it ever it doesn't seem likely to show up.

On Jar'Kai: This seems too narrow for a tree, I don't think it can hope for much more than a name dropped talent or two like Djem So. I definitely don't think it'll turn up with consulars as, while Niman is a basis for it, the reason consulars learn Niman (leaves them more open to use the force) is completely shot if you start using a lightsaber in your other hand.

On Juyo: This is the only one of the three that I think has a good shot of appearing in a meaningful way. The warrior sourcebook seems most likely by far. I do think it could work as a signature ability (take some conflict and get improved offense for a while) since it's pretty thoroughly a warrior style. As a specialisation it would be a good place for a Jar'Kai talent since most instances of two weapon fighting in canon are pretty aggressive.

We did get a whole tree for using 2 blasters. So I see no reason we couldn't get a whole tree for using 2 lightsabers. The Gunslinger tree seems to imply a strong chance of getting a Jar Kai tree.

In general: The lightsaber forms in F&D are abstractions (see Djem So being relegated to two talents in Shien expert). I don't think FFG feel too obligated to provide a comprehensive set of lightsaber styles.

On Vaapad: Given that legends implies there were three people who learned it ever it doesn't seem likely to show up.

On Jar'Kai: This seems too narrow for a tree, I don't think it can hope for much more than a name dropped talent or two like Djem So. I definitely don't think it'll turn up with consulars as, while Niman is a basis for it, the reason consulars learn Niman (leaves them more open to use the force) is completely shot if you start using a lightsaber in your other hand.

On Juyo: This is the only one of the three that I think has a good shot of appearing in a meaningful way. The warrior sourcebook seems most likely by far. I do think it could work as a signature ability (take some conflict and get improved offense for a while) since it's pretty thoroughly a warrior style. As a specialisation it would be a good place for a Jar'Kai talent since most instances of two weapon fighting in canon are pretty aggressive.

Juyo most certainly will get a specialization. I don't know why people keep saying it might be a signature ability though. All signature abilities have followed a very simple paradigm. They're a single ability that can be enhanced via upgrades. I would assess there's about as much of a chance of Juyo being a signature ability, as there is of FFG errata'ing all of the forms into signature abilities.

As for Vaapad, well I don't know if it will ever show up. Vaapad however, could be a signature ability. With a unique requirement that it can only be attached to the Juyo specialization tree. Windu did say Vaapad was more of a mindset, and it's really just a completed form of Juyo. So I could see a Vaapad SA, attached exclusively to Juyo, that allows it's user to channel the dark side to improve their combat abilities.

Jar'Kai isn't really a form. Officially it's a sub-form of Niman, but the term Jar'Kai simply means to dual-wields lightsabers. I personally don't think it needs a specialization. The gunslinger has some serious differences that set it apart, so you really can't compare the two. Now I'm not opposed to a Jar'Kai specialization, I just don't think it's required or integral to the story.

Has anyone taken a crack at homebrewing any of the options previously discussed? I would really be interested in any Form VII trees people could come up with.

Has anyone taken a crack at homebrewing any of the options previously discussed? I would really be interested in any Form VII trees people could come up with.

Shouldn't be to difficult to homebrew Juyo. It's the exact opposite of Sorezu, so all offense and no defense.

So add talents that boost the attack roll (like Quick Strike), base damage (Falling Avalanche), and crit (Lethal Blows). Maybe 1 rank of Parry and either no Reflect, or a single rank. I would probably add Saber Swarm as well. Because Juyo relies heavily on strength and agility, the Technique talent would be to use the lower of either Brawn or Agility for the Lightsaber skill (this also explains part of the difficulty with mastering Juyo). I would add a unique talent that boosted the attack roll with Force dice, but it would be a Conflict generating talent based on highly aggressive attacks. Add in Dedication, Natural Blademaster, Quick Draw, and a smattering of Grit and Toughened and you'll have a solid base for what Juyo would actually feel like.

For Jar'Kai I have the Jar'Kai technique replace any 20 pt talent. It's basically guns blazing except for brawl, melee, or lightsaber weapons.

Then allow the player to replace quick draw for any 5 point talent if it's not already in the talent tree. Then have them replace a 10 point talent with improved quick draw.

Honestly those are the only 3 talents desperately needed for Jar'Kai and any two weapon melee, brawl, or lightsaber character.

If they ever make something official cool, but that's good enough for now.

For Jar'Kai I have the Jar'Kai technique replace any 20 pt talent. It's basically guns blazing except for brawl, melee, or lightsaber weapons.

Then allow the player to replace quick draw for any 5 point talent if it's not already in the talent tree. Then have them replace a 10 point talent with improved quick draw.

Honestly those are the only 3 talents desperately needed for Jar'Kai and any two weapon melee, brawl, or lightsaber character.

If they ever make something official cool, but that's good enough for now.

And a Jar'Kai flourish that works like spitfire.