Hey gang,

Just wanted to say hi and that I just listened to IFF for the first time. I spent the last 3 days at work catching up. Good stuff on here. I don't actually play Armada yet, but it is good to keep up on the latest data. If only they would have announced wave 3 at GenCon so we could have some idea where the game is going.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks,
Duncan

P.S. If you want more songs, you need to look for a guy called Fulongamer. He does tons of Star Wars parody songs. They were all posted at the D20Radio forums at one time for the Order 66 RPG podcast.

I don't hate it. I like getting to 3 ships, but I'm not totally sold on naked Frogs. They're gonna leave those Bs behind pretty quick! Could be good though, worth trying for sure!

I have tried a version of it against a tried and true ship only imperial list (2 Vics and 1 Glad) and the only reason I didnt win was because he killed my last ship before my squadrons could activate. If I play the CR90 defensively and keep it alive long enough the fighters will do their job. I had no problem keeping my Bs in firing range of his two Vics and they were shredding them. If I had killed his last Vic I would have won 8-2.

It continues to fascinate me that this 'debate' continues endlessly. Change the game and this general conversation "there is a part of this game that people are not taking in their lists and certain good players are not taking them but winning tournaments without them but we'd like to see those things taken more often and be represented among winners." has been going on for - what? 40 years? 50? Doesn't matter the game system, genre or year and it just goes on and on. The general chatter in this podcast about squadrons could have been one in the 70's about light infantry in an ancients list, or in the 80's about drones in Star Fleet, or in the 90's about Bretonnians or in the 00's about Mark IVs in Flames of War. Trend following, meta, broken, beardy, OP literally ad infinitum.

Point systems are by definition arbitrary. Ther is no precision to it and cannot be. How many Stuarts is a Churchill worth? Are Engine Techs worth exactly as much as a Tie Squadron? I know they are pointed the same - but do they have exactly the same value no matter who uses them and how? No. So, there will be those things that end up being valued less than their points cost. Errata might fix it. New releases may fix it. But if some player thinks that every aspect of a game will get used by top players just because it was in history/the movies/your dreams - time to go back to whatever school taught you stats and ask for your money back. There will always be trends that look like something is 'wrong with the game'. And some of us may sometimes swim upstream against those trends out of nostalgia or for the challenge or whatever - God knows I have. But what is good to take in a game will always be a small subset of what is available. A designer is super solid if its above 50%.

Fun podcast. But you could have stopped at Player not List and filled that time with something more original.

And no seagull here, Steve. I'll be around for the counter.

Jon, my friend- I don't disagree with anything you said! In fact, I long argued that in FoW. It's whack a mole. Adjust a point value here, and it affects something over there. I've never ever played a game system that was perfect, and when points are involved I don't expect I ever will.

But you're missing the most important point- it's not about the destination, it's about the journey! Podcasts and pages are filled with discussing it because it's fun! It's a "meta" enjoyment of the game. The shop talk surrounds us, penetrates us, and it binds us. Assuming it will ever get better is as wrong as assuming people won't talk about it!

Yeah. Take away gamer debate and there's nothing to talk about. Remove opinion, we've got ... a show where the people read the instruction manual?

Well, you certainly have that right old buddy.

As ever, my only concern is always that new players I am trying to teach are always held back by these discussions - thinking they are more relavent than learning sound tactics. But yes, I have long since tried to discourage someone from talking it. One can pretty easily pick out the people at an event that don't attach any cred to it - an ever shrinking number - and so just focus on beating them. The rest will beat themselves.

Part of any hobby is talking about it. Your mistake is thinking real life tactics transfers to the table. Real life events at (insert era here) were dealt with tactics that were necessary with the info you had against the resources you could take advantage of. Same is true for Games...the same formula is used, except the solution and/or tactics will differ. You're proposing players not chat about a game they love and bounce ideas off each other while experiencing the outcomes. I'll stick to my approach. You can keep yours.

Editted the accusation of being Toxic out of respect for all parties. Typing has no tone.

As a person who teaches 'real life' tactics, and is a long term competitive gamer, I can assure you that the one helps the other. No question. But YMMV.

There are no such things as perfect podcasts. I am pleased to call Steven friend. But that does not mean I cannot offer an opinion on the cast. Some people like all the inside jokes and amateur comedy. I don't. I would have missed the meat of this podcast if a buddy who does like that sort of thing had not pointed it out to me. I would not have made it past the first couple of minutes. Does that make it bad or my opinion toxic? Not at all. Just one dude's view.

I find that all the discussion of 'meta' and 'lists' continues to hold back some gamers who might get better at the game because they believe all that has some validity. That is my view and I am free to offer it here. If one gamer reads this and rethinks spending a long time listening to stuff about meta and instead works out the tactics that fits the way they think and their playstyle, then its a good day. I have helped a number of gamers over the years improve their play through teaching them 'real' tactics and helping them see the proper role of lists in winning games.

If someone thinks the only role of this forum is to jump on the meta bandwagon or say nothing but hugely positive things about IFF or any other opinion piece, they would be mistaken. I think the folks of IFF are cool dudes and mean well. I think a lot of what was said about lists in ep. IX is incorrect. Doesn't make me right or anyone else wrong. Its just a view. So chill.

As a person who teaches 'real life' tactics, and is a long term competitive gamer, I can assure you that the one helps the other. No question. But YMMV.

If one gamer reads this and rethinks spending a long time listening to stuff about meta and instead works out the tactics that fits the way they think and their playstyle, then its a good day. I have helped a number of gamers over the years improve their play through teaching them 'real' tactics and helping them see the proper role of lists in winning games.

Do you have any good Tactical discussions for Armada you would care to share? I would like to consider myself a bit familiar with "real" tactics (or at least i try to be). Sometimes they don't seem to translate as well into games as I would like however. I would be very interested if you would be willing to start a tread on Armada tactics to discuss.

I like the IFF podcast, but actually I would love to have some more "crunch" to the show at times. (At least less singing...)

Thanks,

Duncan

I use these discussions as a spring board. While I agree with many things IFF says, they have proven themselves wrong at times. For instance Easy won with 9 Y-Wings! It was only 3 rounds but it was still a pretty big deal.

Between my day job and my game company I sadly do not have the time I used to. But a legit question. Tell you what, I am playing in an Armada tourney this weekend. I'll jot down some notes about my plan going in and then AAR the games as best I can after. I do not have access to high speed video production, so it will be text. Would that work?

I use a smart phone for my videos. Not the best thing ever but it gets the job done

Perakkir - its always good to hear thoughts from tournaments since they provide a bit more context than disembodied statements (just look at all the debate over ships and squadrons!)

My preference is for text and pictures since I spend most of my time out in the field with a rubbish internet connection and pictures make things much easier to understand. However text without pictures is loads better than no text at all!

Between my day job and my game company I sadly do not have the time I used to. But a legit question. Tell you what, I am playing in an Armada tourney this weekend. I'll jot down some notes about my plan going in and then AAR the games as best I can after. I do not have access to high speed video production, so it will be text. Would that work?

That sounds great to me! I love to hear other players thoughts and how their games go. Trust me, I try and do 40K battle reports and sometimes you just forget to either right things down or take a picture. I actually prefer non-video battle reports. Good luck!

Thanks,

Duncan

Yes, I get so into the games I always forget to take pictures. But we'll see if I can remember this time. First, I have to settle on a list.