Didn't we just have a massive thread talking about the Syck in depth?
Anyway, I feel like the Syck is like a pre-ATs Interceptor. Decent enough against most list as long as they don't have a turret. Most turreted ships can just swat them away like flies.
I was getting Deja Vu too. I was going to add that i'd had good results with a 5 ship m3a mini swarm but was sure i'd already said that ?
Sorry I missed this thread earlier.
The Scyk doesn't have a bad dial. Not having a 1 forward only matters if you are going with the HLC or other cannon to slow roll. If you aren't going with that upgrade, it isn't a big deal. As stated earlier, it can bank AND turn at speed 1. That's fantastic. People used to talk about how the 1 hard turn was the best move in the game. It's especially good on a ship that can barrel roll. Also, the 5 K-turn is also fantastic. I don't think the Scyk has a bad dial. It's only bad if you have an HLC and are trying to slow roll.
I think swarms of Scyks aren't the way to go with this ship....at least not at the moment. I'm sure some peopel have success with them that way, but not constantly. I think the Scyk works best when you have other ships in your list that are more dangerous. I think they will work much much better when you have the new Kihraxz fighter. Why? Those ships will be agile with the sharp turns, as well, and will have 3 attack dice.
I think the best method is to slip in 2 generic Scyks into your list with a bunch of other ships. When it comes to firing at it, most people will probably fire at the more dangerous ship. It also helps that the Scyk has 3 green dice and has a chance of just rolling well to avoid your attack. The idea is to get in fast and either block or arc dodge. Scyks are great for getting in close and fighting. They can have the dial for it with being able to turn or bank 1. They can barrel roll. They can TL, as well. Get in close with a TL and Focus and be out of arc and start laying in the fire. They are like generic Tie Fighters, but have the ability to TL, which is good for a ship that you aren't expecting to be the first target.
Whomever said that they had hope for the Starviper, you don't need anything more. It's been placing in Regionals. I almost placed in mine, but got crap dice on the last game. Xizor and a Z-95 swarm is great for killing Fat Turrets.
So why the heck would I run something that's half the ship, averages the same damage, and cost more to boot?
I think the HLC is overrated honestly. I only see it appear commonly on 2 builds and both have a ship specific reason to make it good. The first one being the Outrider as it lets you shoot out 4 red dice in every direction meaning you're unlikely to not have a shot with it almost every turn. The second of course is the IG that benefits from the stupid good combo of B+FCS. In both cases the ships them selves have something special to make the HLC truly shine.
I agree with you that in comparison to a warthog, the HLC Scyk w/ hull may seem lacking in terms of durability.
However, your analysis of the HLC is way off.
First of all, with a focus token, the HLC averages 3 hits. At range 3, the defender does not get an extra green die, so very high chance that damage gets through defense (most likely more than 1 too).
In comparison, an ion turret y-wing w/ BTL-A4 gets to roll only 2 red dice at range 3, and the opponent gets the extra green. Very low chance of dealing any damage at all (most likely no more than 1).
At range 2, the y-wing does better: 1 or 2 damage from the main gun and another possible 1 damage + ion token. Even with a focus token (or TL) the average damage is still less than the HLC, and even worse, the defender gets to roll his green dice twice (against each attack). So the actual expected damage is usually still 1 or 2 whereas the HLC has a better chance to end up dealing more than 1 damage.
At range 1, the y-wing is the clear winner in damage potential: the HLC cannot fire for one thing, and the y-wing is getting the extra red on their primary attack.
Another thing that your analysis failed to consider is the power of being able to deal 4 damage in a single attack. Yes its not going to happen every shot, but when it does, it always gets some damage on target. Even against hard to hit stuff like Autothrusters + Stealth Device. It also has the potential to destroy low health ships in a single hit (like other scyks, TIEs and even z-95/a-wings). Something which the warthog y-wing cannot do (except at maybe range1 with extremely skewed dice results).
How are you getting a average of 3? For sake of simplicity I was refering to naked dice as you're not always going to have a focus or TL. Infact with the Scyk as a example you'll probably rarely have it as you'll either BR for postion, spend the focus for defense as you're low PS, or take a evade token. For most ships that commonly run HLC this is also true, the exception being the case I listed with IG-B and FCS.
For example take into consideration why it's more common to see a Bwing with AC over a HLC, similar results, but AC frees up your action for postioning and is cheaper to boot.
As for the potential 4 damage, I did take it into consideration, it's just such a unlikely occurrence I didn't think it warranted much discussion. The 4 red die are more for consistency and overwhelming your targets tokens/green die, this is why everyone bemoans 2 attack ships with no gimmicks cause of the inconsistency of landing hits with 2 naked red dice. This is why I value the Warthog so much as it's throwing out 6 red dice, granted it's in 2 shots so more green dice, but it's great at forcing a target to spend his/her tokens. Once the TLT comes out, assuming it works like I think and we get 3 shots, it's gonna be further outclassed and still cheaper to boot.
I mean the evidence is there, how many competitive list you see that run HLC on anything but a YT-2400 or IG-2000? Only one I can think of is Kath, but I don't see her often enough to count it.
Edited by BomberGob