Because they are different. They're machines that have no differentiation between each other and no regard for their own survival. They can pull off inhuman maneuvers (s-loops?) but unlike ig-88, are meant to be interchangeable and replaceable

And how does any of that mean they should fly as a single swarm on a large base?

Also, there's nothing inhuman about S-Loops. If there was, Starvipers wouldn't be able to make them.

By being inhuman and reckless they care less about their own survival and therefore will stick onto targets longer than organic pilots would because organic pilots would break formation to cover wingmen.

As for the demanding maneuvers I'll cite the scum and villany announcement article which says he can fly like a machine and gets the demanding s-loop.

Also, imperial s-loops are unexplored design space.

Because IG-88 had no need for life support systems and no reason to fear the gravitational effects of maneuvers that would kill organic pilots, the majority of the space within the IG-2000 was devoted to engines and weapon systems, making the starfighter every bit as fearsome as its ruthless pilot.

In X-Wing , the IG-2000 is a powerful, large-base starfighter with three attack, three agility, four shields, and four hull. It can boost, it can evade, it can target lock, it can equip two cannons simultaneously, and it can whip through space at high speeds while performing the demanding Segnor’s Loop maneuver.

Because IG-88 had no need for life support systems and no reason to fear the gravitational effects of maneuvers that would kill organic pilots, the majority of the space within the IG-2000 was devoted to engines and weapon systems, making the starfighter every bit as fearsome as its ruthless pilot.

But that again doesn't explain why StarVipers can do them then, when they have a bunch of non-droid pilots available.

It's a super)maneuverable fighter?

IG-88 can do it because he's a robot. A starviper can do it because of the hardware.

Maybe the jumpnaster can do it only to the left because of Asymmetric something or other.

IG-88 is an extremely powerful AI and probably has some sense of self-preservation (if the Legends fluff still means anything (which it officially doesn't)). This is expressed in game with its pilot skill of 6. The TIE/D on the other hand should have all the fear of death of a laptop programmed to drive a golf cart off the top of a cliff. The concept of stress tokens in maneuvering is mostly from the concept that a fighter's chief limitation is the frailties of its pilot. A totally white dial plus a pilot card that says Immunity:Stress puts off the image that there's only a computer brain inside this craft and that the only moves that should give it pause are moves that would be outside the safety tolerances of the craft itself.

This would help separate the TIE/D from the TIE/LN. The TIE/LN could potentially take PTL to take a stress that would put it at an advantage over the droid that could avoid the stress but couldn't take the resulting actions. This would give the Imperial player multiple ways to swarm without replacing one ship with another.

One issue I've come up with is the fact that, if we're making a cookie cutter fighter, with cookie cutter pilots, then how should such a fighter be sold? One aspect of the cost when you buy a miniature is the fact that you get 4 or so pilot cards plus upgrades to help customize your game. Does FFG offer only 1 pilot card and limited number of upgrades and lower the price?

Perhaps instead they could release them as a pack of 3 or 4 in a similar venue as the Aces or Most Wanted and call it Imperial Swarm or something like that?

IG-88 is a much more sophisticated droid that the brain in a TIE Droid though. They aren't really comparable.

Aren't they? IG still gets stress, and it represents this (I feel) by having a lot of green maneuvers on its dial. Even the one of the most lethal droid assassins built can still become stressed, so I feel it stands to reason a tie droid would be much the same.

There's a huge difference between a leader of a droid revolution and a pilot AI program. The TIE/D is more akin to the unmanned drones we have today if they didn't need a remotely linked pilot and were in F-22's. IG-88 had the ability to go renegade, to scheme, to feign loyalty, set traps, and had the fluidity of thought to become a successful bounty hunter.

The TIE/D was an overgrown chess algorithm. Fighter A is at position X at a vector of Y. The best response to this is Z. Execute and repeat assessment. This was the primary downfall of the system was that human pilots could learn from their experience and eventually out think the mass produced computer. IG-88 was a masterpiece of droid engineering, the TIE/D was supposed to be even more disposable than the TIE Fighter. There's a world of difference between that.

There's a huge difference between a leader of a droid revolution and a pilot AI program. The TIE/D is more akin to the unmanned drones we have today if they didn't need a remotely linked pilot and were in F-22's. IG-88 had the ability to go renegade, to scheme, to feign loyalty, set traps, and had the fluidity of thought to become a successful bounty hunter.

The TIE/D was an overgrown chess algorithm. Fighter A is at position X at a vector of Y. The best response to this is Z. Execute and repeat assessment. This was the primary downfall of the system was that human pilots could learn from their experience and eventually out think the mass produced computer. IG-88 was a masterpiece of droid engineering, the TIE/D was supposed to be even more disposable than the TIE Fighter. There's a world of difference between that.

No argument about how much different they are; I'm referring more to the in game mechanics; I feel like if they don't get the ability to do things like focus/ etc with out adding to the ships cost via crew/system attachments.

Also, its a question about what design space would it occupy? Maybe having it only able to access barrel roll, would people even play it? If it's got all the actions, would a pilot skill 1 or 0 undercut the usual academy pilot swarm.

It's a super)maneuverable fighter?

IG-88 can do it because he's a robot. A starviper can do it because of the hardware.

IG-2000s can also only do it because of the hardware. It's just that the reason it can have the hardware, is because it's piloted by a robot. The space the IG-2000 saves by not having life support systems is used instead for more powerful thrusters and such.

Nothing in any of the TIE Droid's descriptions notes it as having notably powerful thrusters. It's said to be more maneuverable than an Interceptor in atmosphere, but that's mainly because of the way it can angle it's solar panels as needed. And of course X-Wing isn't played in atmosphere, so that's moot.

Well, they could be */2/2/2/0 (*= number of drones in play)

Give them a tie fighter dial that's all white plus a pair of sloops.

Immune to stress, can't focus. No upgrades. 10 points.

It's a super)maneuverable fighter?

IG-88 can do it because he's a robot. A starviper can do it because of the hardware.

IG-2000s can also only do it because of the hardware. It's just that the reason it can have the hardware, is because it's piloted by a robot. The space the IG-2000 saves by not having life support systems is used instead for more powerful thrusters and such.

Nothing in any of the TIE Droid's descriptions notes it as having notably powerful thrusters. It's said to be more maneuverable than an Interceptor in atmosphere, but that's mainly because of the way it can angle it's solar panels as needed. And of course X-Wing isn't played in atmosphere, so that's moot.

FFG disagrees so whatever.

Not really. Let's look at your quote again.

"Because IG-88 had no need for life support systems and no reason to fear the gravitational effects of maneuvers that would kill organic pilots, the majority of the space within the IG-2000 was devoted to engines and weapon systems, making the starfighter every bit as fearsome as its ruthless pilot."

The first half of that sentence disagrees, yes. But the second half is pretty much exactly what I said. And, again, the existence of the StarViper shoots the **** out of the argument in the first half.

FFG disagrees so whatever.

Not really. Let's look at your quote again.

"Because IG-88 had no need for life support systems and no reason to fear the gravitational effects of maneuvers that would kill organic pilots, the majority of the space within the IG-2000 was devoted to engines and weapon systems, making the starfighter every bit as fearsome as its ruthless pilot."

The first half of that sentence disagrees, yes. But the second half is pretty much exactly what I said. And, again, the existence of the StarViper shoots the **** out of the argument in the first half.

No it doesn't, both craft have thrusters that move independently of the ship. This is what gives them there maneuverability.

Having an in-organic pilot means the craft can be spun faster and tighter and not having to worry about the extra G forces

As for the TIE/D it can't be any less than 12 points so how could this craft be in the game and not be too similar to the TIE/LN??

Someone suggested having two or three on a large base and when it dies it deploys a single one on small base to carry on fighting.

I think its a cool idea. It adds in something abit different as well as being thematic.

it can't be any less than 12 points

I've heard this said a few times in various topics now. Why is this exactly?

As for the TIE/D it can't be any less than 12 points so how could this craft be in the game and not be too similar to the TIE/LN??

Someone suggested having two or three on a large base and when it dies it deploys a single one on small base to carry on fighting.

I think its a cool idea. It adds in something abit different as well as being thematic.

I personally believe that having multiple ships on bases would limit the game in terms of blocking, arch dodging, and setting a friendly up for a shot. You'd pretty much have either all ships firing on something or all ships not firing on something in a round.

I envision the Droid as a different type of swarm from the LN. The LN is the Imperial Guardsman of the Star Wars fighter universe. It has a low life expectancy, but will try to drown you in numbers and firepower. However, survival will usually grant them traits that will lengthen their lifespan in future battles. The Droid is more like the Hormagaunt, still squishy and needing a lot of them to make a difference; but it is much more singleminded in its approach. There's no finis, just soullessly destroying one target and moving on to another.

Perhaps another way to differentiate the two would be to make it so allied abilities don't work on them? Make the TIE/D rely on numbers alone, a true zerg rush of a fighter. No Howlrunner to buff your rolls, no Dash to pass focus icons to you, just your ability to use your opponents red maneuvers against them to stick on their tails and blast them. It would be a build that would be easy to learn but very difficult to master. A build where you're expected to shed a ship or two in the first charge if it gets you close enough to engage the enemy.

First of all, blocking is kinda anti thematic anyways. It's only there for game rules purposes.

Second, it can just be hand waved away: Tie droids fly in tight formations that human pilots wouldn't risk, but can achieve due to robotic recklessness and preprogrammed algorithms.

Second, it can just be hand waved away: Tie droids fly in tight formations that human pilots wouldn't risk,

But...they don't. Neither the Dark Forces comic, nor the Rogue Squadron game show them doing that.

You're making up new lore to justify the mechanic you created. If you didn't try and turn them into something they weren't, you wouldn't NEED to handwave it.

Second, it can just be hand waved away: Tie droids fly in tight formations that human pilots wouldn't risk,

But...they don't. Neither the Dark Forces comic, nor the Rogue Squadron game show them doing that.

You're making up new lore to justify the mechanic you created. If you didn't try and turn them into something they weren't, you wouldn't NEED to handwave it.

So yes, I like my ideas, but don't pretend I'm making them into something they're not. (With one exception: I guess they have shields).

They did too fight in swarms in rogue squadron.

Not the way you mean it, which is like some kind of insect cloud.

They fight exactly the same as every other ship in that game. Yes, they try and overwhelm you with numbers. Just like every other TIE Fighter in that game with human pilots does.

The thing you are describing with 3 ships going after one target, that's not even a swarm. That's a basic squadron formation.

They were an insect swarm in rogue squadron, and that's not how squadron formations work.

A friend of mine made up some rules for TIE Droids where they have no actions on their action bar. And then created this crew card:

So they generally don't get any actions. But you load a Decimator up with like 3 of those guys, and at least 3 of them get to take actions as long as they stick close.

And it's not specific to any one droid ship, so if you have a larger squadron, as they get destroyed, you just give the actions to the ones that are still alive.

This idea is what I want to expand on. ^^^^^

As of now we have been wondering what the lowest possible point cost per ship could be without individually creating a mad house of 12 ships on a single 3x3 surface. I propose expanding on the droid control ship idea by expanding on the existing in game effects brought by the Ghost+Phantom and Hounds Tooth+Nashtah Pup rules.

Now, bear with me here, as this kinda just popped in my head as I saw the above crew card, and thought to myself, "drone operators/maintainers could be generic or unique crew aboard a control ship!"

Droid Squadron Operator - crew - 30 points

Special rules (Assign Three TIE/Droid Fighters to this Crew member, these assigned ships may perform one free (target lock/ focus/ evade/ barrel roll action during the activation phase if they are not stressed).

Beta Squadron Drone -TIE/Droid- cost 0 PS-0

Atk: 2

Agi: 3

Hull: 3

Shields: 0

Actions-none-

Dial: Standard TIE/LN

Each Droid Technician/Controller could be "controlling" three stands of fighters and in the event that the "control ship" is destroyed, the Autonomous Droids may continue on fighting like the Nashtah Pup does, albeit without actions or being worth any points. A squad could end up looking like this:

99 points

Omicron Group Pilot-21 + Droid Squadron Operator-30 + TIE/Ds 1,2,and 3 -0

+ Droid Squadron Operator -30 + TIE/Ds 4,5,and 6 -0

•Howlrunner -18

Swarmy, fluffy, competitive. Though only one ship controls 81 points of the match. But splitting it up into something more competitive?

99 points

•Captain Oicunn-42 + Droid Squadron Operator-30 + TIE/Ds 1,2,and 3 -0 + Predator -3 (75)

•Lieutenant Colzet -23 + X1 -0 + ATC -1(5).

Just random thoughts. Nothing perfect or tested.

had another thought what if you put them on a large base, four models on a stand and give them a stat line that was affected by the hull points they had left?

This needs to be a wave 9 thing. They put the K-wing and E-wing in, we need some post-Endor Imperials in the mix.

Movement dial: same as standard tie except cannot do 1 hard turns.

So has NO speed 1 maneuvers at all?

Nope. He said they weren't good flyers and it sure would be hard to fly ( though not to hard )

had another thought what if you put them on a large base, four models on a stand and give them a stat line that was affected by the hull points they had left?

This reminds me of armada