Hi all. First post, and it's essentially a carbon-copy of the post I did on bay12, but I thought it would be better to get an idea from people that actually play the game. Going to grab the basic box and put some family members up to some "cheapish, but cool" birthday presents, but I'm a crunchy kind of bloke. So, do you think this would work, on a semi-elite, but tactical strike force?

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Gonna post my "awesome" theorycrafted list before I actually get into the game. X-wing Miniatures Game. Is it actually fun? And worthwhile blowing $100-200 on miniatures? They're not too bad as ornaments as it is, and it's cheaper than Warhammer anyway.....

"Stay-on-Target"

3x B-wing Blue Squadron (scrappers)

w/ Fletchette Cannon, Fire Control System

(stress+, long range if needed, furball, all the targeting to not whiff shots)

3x26=78pts

1x A-wing Green Squadron (cheap commander)

w/ Squad Leader, Chaardan Upgrade, A-wing Test Pilot, Stay on Target

(extra actions for scrappers or afterthought movement, but you can't have both at once)

21pts

99pt build. One highly mobile commander to give free actions and stay out of the way (and awesome red movement bumping if needed in the 2-3 speed range), three scrappers that are able to joust, swarm efficiently, or occasionally stress-tap larger targets (YT 2-ship builds).

What do you think of it game-wise? I could sub in another standard B-wing if the commander sucks, or drop lots of fire control systems as well and grab an ion turret Y-wing for a Phantom hard counter. But I think this build will give plenty of options and fun, with some action control and firepower.

So, is it competitive?

edit: Also vaguely thinking a C3PO B-wing/e2 as a tank ship as an option. *must do 2 damage to you* before anything bad happens is pretty scary for a B-wing to have. But there's something to be said for not whiffing shots and free actions (do them barrel rolls. While you re-target and shoot. Because you can.). Thus the above.

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I'd love to hear any comments for/against or differences on the build. It seems versatile, but I think the cheap commander may be spread too thin. All input welcome to tune the list.

Just giving this a quick bump through the squad lists forum again, as it took a fair few days to get approved on the site.

I gave it a quick go to see what it was like, and it seemed pretty nice. I won, anyway. The A is spread too thin, but I'm not sure what I'd change (Stay on Target is very useful for a low PS ship to have). Might ditch Squad Leader for either a missile option on the A, or some sort of mod on a B. I only used it once the whole battle, but it was handy when I did. If I made better movement choices, rather than relying on SoT, it'd probably be better.

Thoughts on about 3 pts of list improvements?

(I'm actually willing to change it around a lot more than that too).

Flechette cannon is not great on a b-wing. Much better to go HLC if you have the room, or perhaps an ion cannon. Having a couple B-wings with E2+ tactician along with a b-wing sporting an ion cannon (or put the ion on the tactician b-wings if preferred) is fairly effective control

Stay on Target does not work on low PS, acctually. The decision to change your manoeuvre is more valuable when you've seen all of your opponent's moves, so its best to have on a high Pilot skill ship.

a-wings also do not fly in formation with b-wings. Dials are too disimilar (b's are slow, a's are fast).

If you want to go with an ABBB list, I would suggest using the a-wing as a flanker or blocker. There's a ton of ways you could build it, really.

Some a-wing ideas:

Test pilot w/ chardaan refit = 15 pts (excellent blocker to run in front of your b-wings and annoy the hell out of your opponent)

Green pilot w/ push the limit, autothrusters & refit = 22 (same cost as a naked b-wing, but an okay flanker who has great durability vs turrets)

Jake Farrel w/ push the limit,, test pilot title, veteran instincts, autothrusters & proton rockets = 33 (a hard hitting arc-dodger who your opponent cannot ignore or else suffer some serious damage!)

'Psycho' Tycho w/ push the limit, test pilot title, daredevil, proton rockets & experimental interface = 38 (too expensive to run with 3 b-wings, but still, he's incredibly fun and impossible for your opponent to predict where he will end up----much better than stay on target, incidentally)

Welcome! As far as "if the game is fun" that's a definite YES! Started in January or February of this year and have everything except the Tantive. Multiples of everything else except the Transport. This is a great game.

I like the Bs. Usually fly 4 with either FCS or Advanced Sensors. FCS is preferred. 4 Bs with FCS is 96 pts, leaving you with either a 4 point initiative bid or an upgrade on one B or changing two Blues to two Daggers.

Just started flying As so I'm not sure if just one is a good fit. The Bs main nemesis are arc dodgers. Try flying two and two. Or upgrade the Blues to Daggers. That hardens them vs Predator.

Regardless of what you fly, win or lose, have fun. I've met some great people playing face to face and there some very knowledgeable people on these forums. You can learn alot from these guys. Some have been around since day one.

Again, welcome and have fun.

Welcome! As far as "if the game is fun" that's a definite YES! Started in January or February of this year and have everything except the Tantive. Multiples of everything else except the Transport. This is a great game.

I like the Bs. Usually fly 4 with either FCS or Advanced Sensors. FCS is preferred. 4 Bs with FCS is 96 pts, leaving you with either a 4 point initiative bid or an upgrade on one B or changing two Blues to two Daggers.

Just started flying As so I'm not sure if just one is a good fit. The Bs main nemesis are arc dodgers.

Nice post. B-wings with FCS are really good (better than accuracy corrector IMHO). That 4 points doesn't get you much, but its more than the AC b-wings get

Anti-arc-dodger tech is the reason you might want to run an a-wing alongside b-wings. Because a-wings are great at dealing with them. For example, a proto-pilot can be used to block the arc-dodger so the b's can get it in arc and turn it to space dust. Alternatively, you can run Jake (rebel arc-dodger) with proton rockets. Having the threat to 1 shot kill an arc-dodger is enough to seriously cramp how they can approach your b-wings.

Example Lists:

proto-pilot w/ chardaan refit = 15

2 blues = 22 x 2

Keyan Farlander w/ stay on target, advanced sensors & HLC = 41

Here we have an 'ace' in the form of Keyan, but at PS7 he struggles against PS8+. The proto pilot helps with that, zeroing in on any arc-dodger and blocking their best move. Nice thing about Stay on Target with Keyan, is when in doubt, you can set his dial to the 2 k-turn, then change it (use advanced sensors to grab a TL or barrel roll for better positioning). Change the dial and gain a stress (which turns into a focus when you attack).

Or:

2 daggers w/ FCS + HLC = 33 x 2

Jake w/ PtL, test pilot, Vet. instincts, autothrusters & proton rockets = 33

Normally the daggers are screwed against Soontir Fel. But now the baron has to beware Jake. The daggers murder fat turrets (jake does too actually) so its a good anti-meta llist. Actually it can still struggle against multiple PS9 with a bigger initiative bid, because Jake really wants to moves last. you could mitigate this by dropping the daggers to blues, but at 95 pts, that's maybe too much of a bid. No need to worry about it if arc-dodgers are not a huge part of your meta though.

Blade, I agree with your post. I would feel more at home with the second build of Jake & Daggers than the first one. Haven't developed my blocking skills to the point where I'd feel confident with one A and 3 Bs. Keyan as you have him kitted out is awesome. Especially with SOT. Usually I forgo HLC on my Bs but I think I'll revisit my builds. That looks interesting.

Had my 6th and 7th games with As Sunday. Won both vs Vader, Steele and a generic bomber. Finally broke my 5 game losing streak. The A-wings are deceptive little buggers. Didn't give them enough credit when I first started playing. If they had a 3 attack I'd be delighted!

One of the guys that I fly against loves Fel and 2 RGPs. Watching him move is like watching a well choreographed dance. Add to that I think he reads my mind! In my limited experience I've never seen anyone use interceptors as blockers but he has.

I'll try both of your suggested builds. Jake with his built-in PTL and Keyan with his stress=focus are pretty awesome. And I'll work on my blocking skills. Those need LOTS of work.

I'll try both of your suggested builds. Jake with his built-in PTL and Keyan with his stress=focus are pretty awesome. And I'll work on my blocking skills. Those need LOTS of work.

Learning to block is a great idea for two reasons. Its pretty satisfying when it allows you to blow up an actionless ship like Fel, and it helps you become a better arc-dodger (because you know what to look out for when opponents are trying to block your aces).

When I started playing, I was immediately drawn to interceptors (my favourite ship from the movies). After a while I started playing on Vassal and Theorist happened to watch one of my games. Afterwards he gave me the suggestion to fly PS1 and practice my blocking. I did so, trying out a variety of TIE fighter builds and I don't regret it. Not only do I feel comfortable going up against high PS aces with lowly generics (something that was very nerve-wracking before) but now I feel I can fly those ace interceptors much better and its helped immensely with predicting opponent moves correctly.

Good luck!

Those are great suggestions! In the past when I fielded low PS pilots they got eaten alive. My first store tourney was sad. Tabled two out of three games. I was flying a Z swarm. If they had been painted blue it would've looked like the Keystone Kops! Forgotten actions, missed opportunities and a lot of bumping. That was about a month and a half after getting the game. What an eye opener that was.

I'm going to try the base pilots and concentrate on flying. Thanks for the tips!

On SoT not working with low PS, it actually kind of does against certain builds. Primarily TIE swarms and other Rebel lists. All the low PS craft (including your own Bs) get moved, so are out of the way, then your A swoops in to bumping position. Having it happen after most *foo*-Squadron pilots, but before anything remotely elite, is "kind-of" an advantage in some matchups.

Moving for bump blocks isn't really as useful when you move last. Or it is, but I like setting up blocks mid-turn, when the opponent can't really do much about it without a good action strip (which might be stressed out of use anyway). Stay on Target means that no matter how tricksy those PS1/2 ships are, I've still got plenty of options in my A to do something annoying myself. He probably saved me more damage from blocking with bumps than he'll ever cause with 2 firepower. The Squad Leader choice was just there so that while he's not blocking, he's still contributing to overall damage/defense more than 2 firepower/shields would suggest (by helping the Bs roll/focus/lock).

I might switch out Squad Leader for Veteran Instincts some time so he moves after all *foo*-Squadron pilots, but before any elites. Although he'd be equal to IGs then, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

It would free up some points for a HLC though.

Thanks for all the great replies. I'll keep on tinkering with the list.

On SoT not working with low PS, it actually kind of does against certain builds. Primarily TIE swarms and other Rebel lists. All the low PS craft (including your own Bs) get moved, so are out of the way, then your A swoops in to bumping position. Having it happen after most *foo*-Squadron pilots, but before anything remotely elite, is "kind-of" an advantage in some matchups.

Moving for bump blocks isn't really as useful when you move last. Or it is, but I like setting up blocks mid-turn, when the opponent can't really do much about it without a good action strip (which might be stressed out of use anyway).

I might switch out Squad Leader for Veteran Instincts some time so he moves after all *foo*-Squadron pilots, but before elites. Although he'd be equal to IGs then, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

It would free up some points for a HLC though.

Thanks for all the great replies. I'll keep on tinkering with the list.

Well yeah, if all of your opponents fly PS 1 or PS 2, then sure, SOT at PS3 is great. If that's really the case, then go for it. Honestly, though, I don't think an a-wing needs that kind of 'help'. Push the limit or predator will be ultimately more valuable.

As for putting Veteran Instincts on a PS3 ship; it adds +2 PS, so 5 total. IG88s are at PS 6.

There are plenty of builds I could be up against where it's a bit pointless, but having an "open choice" manoeuvre dial at speed 2/3 is a wonderful thing as a new player with a cheap A.

It's sort of a case where 2-6 points will *definitely* go to waste, no matter what I'm facing, but that's helped in that I can face most builds reasonably well. It just depends what options I use, and when, rather than if I can do "something" or not. Flechette stress and blocks/locks/rolls for 2-ship elite builds, locks and firepower/shields for swarms, annoying bump blocking for in-betweens (where the A is half decoy, half blocker most of the time).

Options, but not necessarily efficient ones. I'll try out some of the suggestions to see how I feel about them. Dropping a FC for an Ion Cannon with a little point jiggling is doable, just to really mess with arc dodgers. Pointless against some lists, but gravy against others (whereas flechettes are average, but work against anything).

Oh, and cheers for the IG thing. Still learning all the stats of everything.

Thanks

Another strange little thing with a SL/SoT Green A-wing and a low PS B-wing group that came up in chats and thoughts... They really don't know where your A is going. Is it about to do SL stuff for your auto-target Bs? Or standard A stuff? Or planning ahead and dial switching for bump-block next turn?

It's that sort of stuff, that I like about the build. Internally synergistic, but externally against meta as well. Including the basic building blocks of the game.

(way too many acronyms. Somewhat fixed)

Give it a go, on TT or vassal'ized, but it's a scary learning list for me. So, yep, gonna buy me some Bs and an A.

Edit 2: I still really like the list as originally set. The Bs are brawlers (but what weapon will you use, and what maneuvers?), the A makes you stop and think every turn. What is best to do, this turn, with this board-state? Should I support the scrappers, use actions on the A and do "normal" A-wing things, or just know that I can twiddle my manoeuvre dial to virtually anything?

I like it. It makes me think enough to "Stay-on-Target". Sometimes options, with a cheap commander ship (he feels like a special character ship on some ways), is useful for that alone. Give it a burl some time. Wracking your brain about what you *should* do is just as useful as wracking it upon what the opponent *might* do. But there's lots of options to be considered on your end, and their's.