Damned if you do, and damned if you don`t

By Morffe, in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay

Posted at

McClaud said:

T

Paranoia and Legend of the Five Rings

If you look at the systems set for both of these RPG games, they are largely set for combat. Although they both have smaller additions to conduct players and GMs how to run non-combat encounters, they really don't shine or get used except in combat or near combat situations.

Yet, both games have settings that require a lot of NON-COMBAT interaction.

GMs enforce the setting, not the mechanics. A lot of GMs nowadays discard mechanics or parts of systems to meet their own requirements/feelings anyway. So saying it's heresy is heresy in itself. The good GMs follow the GM Creed: I am the Game Master, and I control the game, the setting and the tempo. I am the arbiter of disputes, and the world in which the players tread. It is up to me to make the game enjoyable for the players - not the game itself. This is why I play.

Well written McClaud. You have a very vallid point there the GM is a strong enforcer of the setting. He or she can control the game, or at least lead it back on the right tracks when it sidetracks. But not every GM operates in this way, I have played with GMs that never gives any hints or what to expect how to solve an obstacle. Some GMs never make it clear what they will tolerate or how they indend for a game be run. I call them the enigmatic GMs and I suspect they are a rare breed.

The Enigmatic GM

Not to repeat what I have allready said, but enigmatic GMs seems to be driven by the creed of total player freedom. He seldoms hints or tells what he expect how a game is run. He reacts to the players decisions with serious neutrality. Some players may find that discomforting. Its hard to read what such a GM likes or dislikes of the players decisions. He is the opposite of the Guiding GM . I think most of us GMs falls in somewhere between the two.

And you`re right that most GMs will not let them be dictated by the rules. So we can be sure that these factors influence the setting most 1) the GM, 2) the players and maybe as a 3) the rules or mechanics.

Posted at

RPG holy wars have raged since D&D moved from three books in a white box to AD&D hardbacks.

I do like the tone of this thread and wish that this spirit could have been present during the advent of D&D4E ... that was a nasty nasty dust up.

I have played WFRP since it first showed up in the late 1980s. There were long stretches when the game wasn't even in print. The fan community filled the gap between printings and incarnations. The 2nd edition brought a revival of the game and this 3rd edition may move it to a broader audience.

That is a good thing.

I may not be a part of that audience, but that's okay. I love the game I have. It has deep content and great support from a fanatical online community. The setting isn't changing so there is still value in any new products that come along.

If the game rocks and sells really well then all is good and WFRP will keep going. If the game flops then the fans will do what they have always done and keep the game alive through their own efforts and WFRP will keep going. No matter what happens the setting will endure.

I hope that once I have the game in hand and give it a try that I will find it to be a game I want to keep playing. I have my doubts given what I have seen so far, but that's okay - I still have all of my 2nd and 1st edition material to keep me playing WFRP for decades to come.

It's all good.

Posted at

I'm going to resume here my major concerns and the thing I do like about V3, in order to make my mind clearer about this.

PROS

- The "Party Sheet" is a rather good Idea, it gives cohesion to the party, reminds to the players that they are part of a group and that their group usually gives it's best when acting in certain ways.

- Possibility for players to use talents/skills that affect the whole group. Like the Trollslayer charging a fearsome monster thus giving example to not fear it or how to strike it in order to slay it faster. Or the experienced soldier giving advices on how to better charge opponents in order to have a tactical advantage.

- Fortune not just acting as a "save my own ass" reroll but seen more as a bonus possibility to use on rolls.

- The fact that the result of a die roll has to be interpreted by both the GM and the Player, depending on the dies used.

CONS

- Lack of respect for 23 years old, rocksolid system. Most of the new things could have been integrated in the old D100 system

- V3 material will not be compatible with V1 and V2 ones. Neither will be easy anymore to quick convert from-to WFRP and WFB. This is no good news as I like to mix and match V1 and V2 source materials (most of my ongoing campaign is a mix between Ashes of Middenheim and Power behind the Throne). Yes, a conversion can be achieved but not as quickly and this days I have not much spare time to spend in conversions. The WFB incompatibility is an issue also because I'm used to GM large battles mixing WFRP and WFB elements and again ease of conversion is a must.

- The whole thing seems to be born as a moneymaking machine, then covered as a "New, shiny, improving take on what RPG is all about". Lots of gimmik material that is sold as "Gaming improvement" but that at the end is a "You must have in order to play", Playe'rs kits that have cards not contained in the GM one, Dice Kits that contain almost half the dies needed for a player in order to indipendently use his own dies (and we all know mostl players want to use their own dies). All this when playing V2 meant for a player buy his own couple of D10 if he really wanted to roll his owns.

- WS and BS are now skills depending upon respectively, all together now, Strength and Dexterity (D&D anyone?)

- The whole combat turn mechanics seem a boon at first but they look way too technical and boardgamish when examined indeep, even requiring players to handle counters on their action cards.

- The system pretends to tell the GM how to tell the story. I never needed such an aid from the gaming system and while I can see the excellent idea behind all this, I find the result to be a bit fastidious (But I could be wrong here as I yet have to play a demo game)

- The overall quality of the phisical materials stored in the Starter Kit, while being advertised as one of the shiny aspects of V3 totally failed to strike and impress me. The 4 "handbooks" seemed booklets to my eyes and dies, cards and cardboard quality seemed just average (not that average dies and cards are bad, but with all those tall words about them I expected way better things).

Posted at

Erik Bauer said:

I'm going to resume here my major concerns and the thing I do like about V3, in order to make my mind clearer about this.

PROS

- The "Party Sheet" is a rather good Idea, it gives cohesion to the party, reminds to the players that they are part of a group and that their group usually gives it's best when acting in certain ways.

- Possibility for players to use talents/skills that affect the whole group. Like the Trollslayer charging a fearsome monster thus giving example to not fear it or how to strike it in order to slay it faster. Or the experienced soldier giving advices on how to better charge opponents in order to have a tactical advantage.

- Fortune not just acting as a "save my own ass" reroll but seen more as a bonus possibility to use on rolls.

- The fact that the result of a die roll has to be interpreted by both the GM and the Player, depending on the dies used.

CONS

- Lack of respect for 23 years old, rocksolid system. Most of the new things could have been integrated in the old D100 system

- V3 material will not be compatible with V1 and V2 ones. Neither will be easy anymore to quick convert from-to WFRP and WFB. This is no good news as I like to mix and match V1 and V2 source materials (most of my ongoing campaign is a mix between Ashes of Middenheim and Power behind the Throne). Yes, a conversion can be achieved but not as quickly and this days I have not much spare time to spend in conversions. The WFB incompatibility is an issue also because I'm used to GM large battles mixing WFRP and WFB elements and again ease of conversion is a must.

- The whole thing seems to be born as a moneymaking machine, then covered as a "New, shiny, improving take on what RPG is all about". Lots of gimmik material that is sold as "Gaming improvement" but that at the end is a "You must have in order to play", Playe'rs kits that have cards not contained in the GM one, Dice Kits that contain almost half the dies needed for a player in order to indipendently use his own dies (and we all know mostl players want to use their own dies). All this when playing V2 meant for a player buy his own couple of D10 if he really wanted to roll his owns.

- WS and BS are now skills depending upon respectively, all together now, Strength and Dexterity (D&D anyone?)

- The whole combat turn mechanics seem a boon at first but they look way too technical and boardgamish when examined indeep, even requiring players to handle counters on their action cards.

- The system pretends to tell the GM how to tell the story. I never needed such an aid from the gaming system and while I can see the excellent idea behind all this, I find the result to be a bit fastidious (But I could be wrong here as I yet have to play a demo game)

- The overall quality of the phisical materials stored in the Starter Kit, while being advertised as one of the shiny aspects of V3 totally failed to strike and impress me. The 4 "handbooks" seemed booklets to my eyes and dies, cards and cardboard quality seemed just average (not that average dies and cards are bad, but with all those tall words about them I expected way better things).

I'm adding things to the list:


PROS

- Economic and Coniage system seems to have a reasoned base... at last! I find the changing in the coin values a bit strange... but it almost reflects how I do houserule economy in my V2 campaign (Copper and Silver being the most used, Gold being of incredible value for commoners).


CONS

- As for now, it seems that we will have specialized careers for 3 magic schools (Fire, Heavens and Shadow) and three Divinities (Sigmar, Shallya, Morr)