For orbital-capable armed crafts I'd say: yes. The PDF controls and defends the space stations in orbit, so they need orbital-capable crafts. To get to these and also as defensive options these ships would certainly armed.

For Warp-capable ships I'd give a definite: no. That's what the imperial navy is for. PDF is after all the planetary defense force. They may be mobilized and sent to other planets (in an emergency), but the transport would be governed by the Navy. The PDF owning a warp ship would be the equivalent of a IG regiment owning one. That won't happen.

Non-warp-capable ships is a definitive: errm, maybe.

Can the PDF have such ships ? Yes, but they are extremely expensive, and you'd have to come up with a good reason such as the planet being fairly high tech and affluent. The PDF operate what are collectively called 'system defense monitors', which are smaller ships that are not warp capable and generally stick to a specific star system for their entire existence. PDF are also well known for operating space stations and orbital defense networks. I don't think you would find many PDF operated warp capable ships. The PDF is a defensive force. Planetary though is a bit of a nebulous word. You can have a PDF force that monitors an asteroid belt that is mined by a planet. It's a big universe out there and there are a lot of different situations. I have no doubt jurisdictional grievances are also a thing.

It's my understanding that very few organizations may actually own a warp-capable starship in WH40k. They may "lease" them with strict rules about what can and should be done with them (as with free traders, for example), but for the most part only the navy owns ships.

This is one of the things that makes a Rogue Trader so unique. He can actually own his own starship and do whatever the hell he likes with it, at least as long as he stays outside of the Imperium.

Yes, but: we have hundreds and thousands of Chartist Capitans, who have charters from Merchant and Civil Navy. And this two "organizations" (because that's not organizations as Navy, it's something near ICAAN tbh) "controls" vast majority of ships in human space as I remember.

But planet is not an organization, it's administrative unit of it's own right. Yes, Imperial Guard guarding planet can't have combined arms regiments, but PDF forces can, because they're not subjects of imperial primers. So planet can be more independent than Imperial Guard, for example.

Problem is "where are you going to gain warp-ready ship", but I believe it's not so big problem when we're speaking of Scintilla, Malfi or Armageddon resourses.

A planetary governor could certainly charter a voidship and transport passengers/cargo with it but a planetary assault would likely be problematic.

A planetary governor could certainly charter a voidship and transport passengers/cargo with it but a planetary assault would likely be problematic.

Well, let's say I'm a governor. I managed to gain voidship (well, it's definitly possible), with guns (Imperial ship without guns?! you're kidding!) and use it to defend system, doing warp jumps to far planets and back if it need to. I'm damned highest Imperial authority on this planet.

What will happen next?

If your ship is primarily a cargo vessel you're fine! You have the right to impress any asset in system to aid in it's defense! The problem comes in if you acquire an actual warp capable warship and/or use your trader for offensive operations. At that point you've strayed into the pervue of the imperial navy and may well face consequences!

I recall seeing somewhere that Voidships in the Koronus who aren't expressely there with a Warrant of Trade (i.e official Imperial business) can be seized by a Rogue Trader - correct me if I'm wrong on this folks...

Basically like

ohh what are you doing here?

Submit your ship and holdings to me in the name of the God Emperor or prepare for the sweet oblivion you obviously crave by having such a presence here - hahahhaha!

OK that last part was my attempt at humor

Stay GAMING

Morbid

If your ship is primarily a cargo vessel you're fine! You have the right to impress any asset in system to aid in it's defense! The problem comes in if you acquire an actual warp capable warship and/or use your trader for offensive operations.

Well, my ship is definitly a warship. I brought it, I armed it better it was, I improved armor and so on. It may be not a top level battlecruiser, but it's a ship I'm using to be on guard.

What will be consequences? Imperial Fleet will bomb Scintilla?

I recall seeing somewhere that Voidships in the Koronus who aren't expressely there with a Warrant of Trade (i.e official Imperial business) can be seized by a Rogue Trader - correct me if I'm wrong on this folks...

You can't do warpjumps in-system*, so anyways, warp-capable vessels are now way useful for a planetary governor that wants to protect his domain.

Ships goes so fast in 40k that in system, it takes them less than days to cover a system end to end.

*Well, you can, but that's more likely to cause the end of your service to the God-Emperor or whatever you serve.

I'd say:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. No.

Technically even the guard (Astra Militarum) doesn't have warp capable ships and the regiments are transported by the Imperial Navy or the Admech.

And this goes all the way back to the latter days of the Horus Heresy when it was decreed (possibly by the Emperor himself) that no regiment should have it's own warp capable craft, so that if a regiment were to turn traitor it could not leave it's system without wholesale treachery on part of the navy aswell.

Now in theory you could have a roguetrader fleet with it's own armed forces, support the PDF.

Technically even the guard (Astra Militarum) doesn't have warp capable ships and the regiments are transported by the Imperial Navy or the Admech.

My point is: if even the guard don't get their own transport, then there's very litle (read: no) chance of the pdf getting them.

Why would the PDF need a warp capable transport anyway? they are supossed to protect the planet they are on. (Ie stay put and die.)

Why would the PDF need a warp capable transport anyway? they are supossed to protect the planet they are on. (Ie stay put and die.)

Problem with warp travel is: you need to be at the edge of the system (mandeville point) to (at all) safely translate into the warp, so for in-system travel it would be useless. And that's before you factor in the risks of traveling trough the warp: you need a navigatorand a Geller field and even then you have no true control over where and when you come back out: Way to much hassel to go from Earth to Jupiter for instance.

So in system travel will be slower (no idea what speed/travel time tough) but any invading force would (hopefully)be picked up when they came out of warp at the edge of the system and they would have to move using (the slower) realspace drives aswell.

Now its possible that there are exceptions to the rules concerning guard but i have my doubts the high lords of terra would alow some local governor to maintain a bunch of warpcapable ships full of pdf to do and go where they please.

Maybe the forge worlds are allowed to pull that stuff, since it's the admech and they play by their own rules.

I would also say 1) yes 2) yes 3)no
They also tend to have armed space stations.

Warp drive would not help get from one planet to another in the same system as Robin Graves mentioned. A warp capable ship would be a waste as part of a PDF force because it should never leave its home system.

Presumably if this theoretical second planet was so important and needed to be defended ships, space stations/defense satellites and soldiers would already be allocated to it and would remain in constant orbit. Relief forces from elsewhere in the system would probably take between hours and days to arrive.

Because Guard must not be able to go from world to world with a regiment capable of waging war by itself whenever he pleases.

Since PDF regiments are limited to their worlds, and since they anyway ALL obey to the same guy (Governor), the Imperium doesn't care.

Still, PDF are not able to get more than the Guard.

If the local government has enough to get space ship, they will be local spaceship and again, the regiments won't be able to move from system to system.

The Imperium won't ever tolerate a governor having warp capable vaissel and armed forces that can travel from system to system because:

-1st it goes against the principle of not letting armed forces being able of doing everything by themselves

-2nd, it goes against the mandate of a planetary commander, which is to govern and protect his lands, not going elsewhere with formidable ressources.

PDF won't have the right to get what IG don,t have the right to.

Problem is - how fast can you travel from 3rd planet (Earth) to 7th (Uranus) where, for example, main mining for promethium existed, without local warp-jump?

As I said a few posts earlier, local warp jumps in the sense that you see it doesn't exists.

Ships move faster than our modern ships, so yeah, it will take a few days to get from one extremity of the system to the other. It's **** awesome and more than enough for an imperial world with some possessions in-system.

Ships goes so fast in 40k that in system, it takes them less than days to cover a system end to end.

This isn't true, as shown in the Rogue Trader books. It depends on the size of the system, but for most systems, it can easily take over a month to get from one end to another. Just traveling from the edge of the system to its core is typically around 3 weeks of travel. With a skilled Navigator you'll spend far less time in the Warp than in the void when traveling from one system to another.

Problem with warp travel is: you need to be at the edge of the system (mandeville point) to (at all) safely translate into the warp, so for in-system travel it would be useless.

That's a good point, I forgot about it.

PDF won't have the right to get what IG don,t have the right to.

Once again - people looks to ignore me in this!

PDF have some rights IG haven't. They're allowed to have combined arms companies (Imperial Guard infantry company can't have it's own artillery or tanks, for example), and they are not obliged to be supervised by Commisariate.

Question is can and should PDF protect off-planet objects in their system?

Question is can and should PDF protect off-planet objects in their system?.

Yes; but with non warp capable spacecraft! (keyword: off planet, not off system) They got tons of listening outposts, orbital stations, system patrol craft and stuff (well in the novels and fluff I don't think we got rules for them in battlefleet gothic...)

To be honest I believed you must be gravity-free to do warp jump, not system-free. You can do short-range (something about 1-2 ly) warp jumps without Navigator onboard, after all - I don't recall exactly where I saw it, but I did.

But if you have warp-drive on ship at all, you can theoretically make normal warp-jumps as well - if you managed to get Navigator, so it's warp capable spacecraft.

To be honest I believed you must be gravity-free to do warp jump, not system-free. You can do short-range (something about 1-2 ly) warp jumps without Navigator onboard, after all - I don't recall exactly where I saw it, but I did.

But if you have warp-drive on ship at all, you can theoretically make normal warp-jumps as well - if you managed to get Navigator, so it's warp capable spacecraft.

True on the short jumps, but they're extremely risky still and require good charts.

I'd say in-system travel is exclusively non-warp. That seems to be the case in the fluff.

3 weeks isn't actually that long for a war. Wars take YEARS.

As most people in this thread, I would say:

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. No

Once again - people looks to ignore me in this!

PDF have some rights IG haven't. They're allowed to have combined arms companies (Imperial Guard infantry company can't have it's own artillery or tanks, for example), and they are not obliged to be supervised by Commisariate.

Question is can and should PDF protect off-planet objects in their system?

But what you say is false. Imperial Guard has rules that stop it from being able to be autonomous in its star spanning mission.

The same applies to PDF automatically, since they can't wage war on a star-spanning level. So no, the PDF doesn't get more than the IG. And IG regiments are regularly combined to get what you call combined arms, so yes, Imperial Guard has the same thing than PDF at this level.

About the speed of ships, well, in many books it doesn't take very long to move in system and we speak more in days than weeks.