I pray it is ineffective.

Honestly a Raider or CR-90 swarm should be effective. The wolfpack tactic does in fact work IRL and it should work here.

What it should not be is more effective then other types of lists.

The issue with the swarm is that they can't get points as easily. Oh they can win Games but they will have issues getting that 10 to 0 Victory

Darn it Lyraeus, I was about to post the exact same thing (the Here They Come picture) when you posted it. xD

I think you mean 2.2 damage. . . Cuz, 22 damage would be a bit ridiculous.

I think he means 22 damage - between multiple Raiders focusing-fire a single target. With ACM and Screed, each front arc deals a bare minimum of 4 unbraceable damage (accuracy, accuracy, blank, blank), potentially much more (acc, hit, hit+crit, hit+crit). And each side arc deals between 4 (any, blank) and 5 (hit, hit+crit) damage.

Scary by itself, terrifying in a swarm!

One thing I'm thinking will be fun with the Raider will be the fact that it will have the Ion upgrade and the Ordnance upgrade. Leading Shots + ACM will make for a nicely potent combo on that front arc, and still be fairly cheap.

So is that the same picture as Impetuous?

I think you mean 2.2 damage. . . Cuz, 22 damage would be a bit ridiculous.

I think he means 22 damage - between multiple Raiders focusing-fire a single target. With ACM and Screed, each front arc deals a bare minimum of 4 unbraceable damage (accuracy, accuracy, blank, blank), potentially much more (acc, hit, hit+crit, hit+crit). And each side arc deals between 4 (any, blank) and 5 (hit, hit+crit) damage.

Scary by itself, terrifying in a swarm!

Multiple raiders getting in close range shots can not happen. Even against a large ship there is not enough room to do it and stay alive. Try it on a VSD, see how many small bases can get in close range and see where that places them. Go on I have time.

A Raiders front arc will at best deal what a hit, acc, hit+crit, and hit. That is 4 damage on average. The side arcs will do max 3 damage and usually get as much as 2 (i conducted test rolls of 10 rolls at first then moved to 20 and 30 rolls for each arc)

Now ACM's make them better and increases this but then you are only allowed to screed one attack which means somewhere you are trading damage to get them working. Still the limitation is getting INTO that range with that many ships. It cant be done every turn either. Not without possible losing a ship or 2 every time you try.

I plan on running a mixed Glad/Raider wolf pack come wave 2, cost permitting.

I pray it is ineffective.

Honestly a Raider or CR-90 swarm should be effective. The wolfpack tactic does in fact work IRL and it should work here.What it should not be is more effective then other types of lists.

I didn't make a statement about what should or should not be. I stated my own subjective opinion. Objectively, I agree with everything you said.

I think you mean 2.2 damage. . . Cuz, 22 damage would be a bit ridiculous.

I think he means 22 damage - between multiple Raiders focusing-fire a single target. With ACM and Screed, each front arc deals a bare minimum of 4 unbraceable damage (accuracy, accuracy, blank, blank), potentially much more (acc, hit, hit+crit, hit+crit). And each side arc deals between 4 (any, blank) and 5 (hit, hit+crit) damage.

Scary by itself, terrifying in a swarm!

Multiple raiders getting in close range shots can not happen. Even against a large ship there is not enough room to do it and stay alive. Try it on a VSD, see how many small bases can get in close range and see where that places them. Go on I have time.

A Raiders front arc will at best deal what a hit, acc, hit+crit, and hit. That is 4 damage on average. The side arcs will do max 3 damage and usually get as much as 2 (i conducted test rolls of 10 rolls at first then moved to 20 and 30 rolls for each arc)

Now ACM's make them better and increases this but then you are only allowed to screed one attack which means somewhere you are trading damage to get them working. Still the limitation is getting INTO that range with that many ships. It cant be done every turn either. Not without possible losing a ship or 2 every time you try.

And really, that's where the make-or-break point will be for the Raider Swarm. The player will have to be good enough to make his attacks simultaneously, and set them up in the best possible position for those attacks to avoid return-fire. Those ships then have to be able to move past that ship and on to another target directly afterwards. Players who don't plan out their movements and aren't able to adapt on the fly will not be able to rely upon the heavier and more forgiving stats of the VSD or Gladiator.

A couple of raider would be an asset for an imperial all capital ships fleet. If the enemy runs squadrons, they have to pass 2 blue, 2 black flak dice, and that is without overlapping arcs. And no squadron can outrun a raider.

2 black dice don't scale me. It has the same damage capacity as 2 blue but you can't negate my scatter. Now a blue and black. . . That can get worrisome. If SW-7 Ions work the way I think. . . Well that can also make the Raider a true danger

The other thing to think about with black flak dice is that they have a slightly smaller effective range then the blue ones.

2 black dice don't scale me. It has the same damage capacity as 2 blue but you can't negate my scatter. Now a blue and black. . . That can get worrisome. If SW-7 Ions work the way I think. . . Well that can also make the Raider a true danger

Same cap but better odds. Your reasoning also assumes that all your squadrons are aces with a scatter /and/ that every squadron will only be attacked once each turn, thats almost never going to happen. So you exhaust your scatter early, then blow it on the next attack and are then ripped to shreds by enemy squadrons.

The other thing to think about with black flak dice is that they have a slightly smaller effective range then the blue ones.

Princezilla, your concept is plausible but answer me this what is the average damage of a blue die? What about black? Then answer what the difference between medium and close is. Finally, answer how many attacks would it take with those averages

So my squadron is going to stay around medium range to limit your damage and since everything but demolisher shoots then moves, I don't have to worry about damage. Oh sure maybe next turn but I am a mainly rebel player, your 1.17 damage is not going to kill anything quickly.

2 black dice don't scale me. It has the same damage capacity as 2 blue but you can't negate my scatter. Now a blue and black. . . That can get worrisome. If SW-7 Ions work the way I think. . . Well that can also make the Raider a true danger

I agree with the double black dice not being particularly scary. Your average damage in that case improves by 0.5 per anti-squadron roll (1.0 damage from two blue dice vs. 1.5 damage from two black dice), but your high-end roll still tops out at 2 (same as for blue dice). Odds are slightly higher that you get this top-end damage a little more often, but it's still not enough to significant tip the balance in my opinion--unless of course there's an upgrade that allows crits to deal damage to squadrons (another upgrade/balance debate entirely).

Swapping a black for a blue die adds a small accuracy chance (0.25), but in that case your damage is topping-out at 1 damage instead of 2 (assuming, again, no crit-counts-for-damage/accuracy-counts-for-damage upgrades). I guess this means you can block scatter and guarantee 1 damage... but what are the odds Tycho/other hero is spending a scatter on 1 damage? I guess if the raider is your only anti-fighter unit... but in that case, I think you'd have bigger problems.

This is not to say that two black dice won't hurt, or even pose difficult choices for hero squadrons, so long as they are paired with the threat of other squadron attacks. Suppose a raider shoots at Tycho with two blacks and lands two hits (no accuracy, obviously), and Rhymer, Vader, and a TA are in engagement range of Tycho and can attack him later in the turn (assuming Vader and the TA attack, that's an average of 4.5 damage and 1.5 accuracies (3.0 damage/0.75 accuracy from Vader, 1.5 damage/0.75 accuracy from the TA). Assuming the imperial player has the prior activation (and Tycho can't fly away first), do you use scatter on the two hits and take your chances with two attacks? Spend the brace instead and chance not being able to use the scatter at all?

If SW -7 Ions make accuracy rolls into damage as well as their normal effect (the way it is worded from what I can read is just like Darth Vader's Ace card) then Blue dice will be the reigning king of Anti-squadron.

If SW -7 Ions make accuracy rolls into damage as well as their normal effect (the way it is worded from what I can read is just like Darth Vader's Ace card) then Blue dice will be the reigning king of Anti-squadron.

Yes. Assuming that's what it does, everyone will want blue dice. Unless there's a crit-applies-to-squadrons, in which case you'll want black (mitigatable by heroes, but far more damage for all other squadrons). We'll have to wait and see.

The other thing to think about with black flak dice is that they have a slightly smaller effective range then the blue ones.

I don't know about you but I have yet to shoot at a Rhymer ball at anything but medium range.

Princezilla, your concept is plausible but answer me this what is the average damage of a blue die? What about black? Then answer what the difference between medium and close is. Finally, answer how many attacks would it take with those averages

Unless you are running Rhymer then you'll need to be in close range anyway in order to attack. And if you are running Rhymer then you'll need a squadron command every turn if you want stay out of range while still dealing damage. Plus in a dogfight there isn't even the option of staying out of range.

The other thing to think about with black flak dice is that they have a slightly smaller effective range then the blue ones.

I don't know about you but I have yet to shoot at a Rhymer ball at anything but medium range.

Princezilla, your concept is plausible but answer me this what is the average damage of a blue die? What about black? Then answer what the difference between medium and close is. Finally, answer how many attacks would it take with those averages

Unless you are running Rhymer then you'll need to be in close range anyway in order to attack. And if you are running Rhymer then you'll need a squadron command every turn if you want stay out of range while still dealing damage. Plus in a dogfight there isn't even the option of staying out of range.

So at best the squadron you hit with the Raider loses 2 HP, a X-Wing won't mind, a Y-Wing will shrug, a B-Wing won't ming, and an A-Wing will wince. A 2 out of 4 TIEs will cry.

Each black dice has a bit over 7" of range and a .67 chance of dealing a single damage. Sure you will get 2 damage more often when compared to a double blue bit it is not scary. Maybe over 3 turns I would worry but if you are shooting at squadrons for one of your attacks and not a ship I will happy over that.

So, after looking at the Raider's description again it says ". . . pour concentrated fire into the broadside of a rebel cruiser. . ." anyone else think that is a trap?

For instance I would love for the Raider to get into close range of my MC30 or MC80. If I have Akbar I will laugh to the destruction of the Raider.

I think what the raider will end up doing best is denying your opponent movement space. You can put him in places that'll make your opponent think twice about moving there; sit him next to an objective that your opponent wants to move towards, for instance, and make him weigh the options of giving you free shots on his ship, or not getting the objective.

I think what the raider will end up doing best is denying your opponent movement space. You can put him in places that'll make your opponent think twice about moving there; sit him next to an objective that your opponent wants to move towards, for instance, and make him weigh the options of giving you free shots on his ship, or not getting the objective.

I think the Raider will be great but as always I am hesitant on a swarm of them