So, I'm a fan of the Raider-Class Corvette. Have been since they first announced it for X-Wing. So, when I saw it was coming to Armada, I was obviously excited. Part of me even wonders if a solid list of Raiders might be feasible.

Pros:

1) Ship Count- For any objectives based match, this is going to take the cake. If this Raiders sits at around the same points as a CR90, you'll be able to fit around 8 of these guys into a 400 point list. And, considering they all have decent anti-fighter capability, they pull double duty where your squadrons used to.

2) Tarkin fun- Sit Grand Moff Tarkin on one of these guys, and give all friendly ships a free token each turn. With how many you're getting, and the fact that they're all command 1, allows you to be incredibly flexible as the game goes on. Of course, he costs almost as much as one of these guys will.

3) Better than the CR90? - While most of the stats of this ship are fairly similar to the CR90, it does get a few bonuses over it. Primarily are its higher anti-squadron firepower and the fact that it gets Brace, which makes this little ship a good bit more durable than its Rebellion counterpart. In addition, the Raider shares the wide front fire arc of the Star Destroyer design, making it easier to get those double-arc shots.

4) Mitigating losses- This strategy allows you to spread your points out along a far larger group, making enemy focus fire less effective than it would be against larger ships. With how hardy these little things look like they'll be, it'll take a good bit more work to take them down; essentially, more Braces = more damage mitigation.

5) More shots, less enemy mitigation- Your opponent is going to have to pick and choose when to use defensive abilities. Brace against one attack, and you might have another one following up on it. With so many little Raiders out, you're removing your opponent's ability to mitigate all the damage. Sure, each one would do less damage than other capital ships, but a group of three is going to be more efficient at putting its dice to work than a ISD that gets its shots Braced against and loses half its hits.

6) X-Wing style TIE-Fighter blocking- Anyone who's played X-Wing knows the anguish of fighting against a TIE-Fighter spam. Essentially, sacrificing one ship to block off your opponent's movements and set them up to be hit repeatedly by other ships. Another thread recently posted about Gladiator Boxing went over some of this strategy just recently, and I think that, while not as effective as the Gladiator at it, the Raiders can still implement similar aggravating tactics.

Cons:

1) This strategy works best when your opponent puts a good few upgrades on their ships, giving them less of them overall. If they take multiple large capital ships, they can reduce the effectiveness of this strategy by taking away the focusing ability of the Raiders.

2) Kinda bland? Yeah, spamming out one thing can get a little boring. This list does lack a bit of flair.

3) Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself. If you're not very good at planning out movements, you're just as likely to run into your own ships as you are your opponent's. Gotta make sure you have your formations down and you've practiced coordinating assaults. Otherwise, you're gonna trip over yourself, and your opponent will take advantage of that in a heartbeat to dwindle down your numbers.

Considering this ship isn't even out yet, it's hard to get really tactical about it. Various upgrade cards and whatnot. But what do you guys think?

A con is its range. So far we know it has half blue half black dice, at the speeds it will be needing to go to survive it will be hard for it to get multiple shots off to dealt the date you want it to do.

Corvette Swarm lists while nice will have a basic issue, the need to focus on one ship will leave them vulnerable and while they will make ships use up defense tokens they will get many chances to take out your ships.

Right. The main difference, I think, between the Corvette Swarm and the Raider Swarm will be the Brace on the Raiders. That will let you mitigate so much more enemy damage, thus lessening their ability to take out your ships in an efficient manner. The Raiders do have that shorter range, but with their speed and maneuverability, I don't think getting into position is going to be difficult for them.

It could be an interesting ship to use in numbers as harassment for sure !

In terms of pure tanking though, I'm not sure how Brace works "better" then the Corvette's redirect though. A Corvette with Electronic Counter Measures can basically tank 4 damage points (because it's definitely going to be able to use its Redirect) + 4 damage points on its hull from a single shot.

Brace will definitely prevent the Raider from being one shotted. It would requre 12 damage from a single shot to kill it. So, it might be better suited for YOLO charging in the enemy's lines, while the Vette might be better tanking at range coupling Redirect with Engineering Commands to restore those shields.

Brace works a bit less when you're being pecked at by multiple small shots that each deal 1 or 2 damage.

I think it'll be worse, for 3 reasons:

1) Range. Lack of red dice is a bad thing.

2) No Mon Mothma. Brace vs Redirect is all nice, but Mon Mothma adds so much survivability to a CR90 swarm it's disgusting. Raiders dont really have any defensive tech at all, and will just have to suck up the damage. Brace is lovely, but it's not THAT good compared to a supercharged evade + redirect combo.

3) The big front arc. This looks like a benefit, since it makes that front battery easy to bring to bear. However, it also makes it far easier for enemies to pile their shots into a single arc, and the Raider simply cant handle that, especially since it lacks the redirect. I would much, much rather have the CR90's arcs when the return fire starts coming....and honestly, who can't get targets into 2 arcs with the CR90? Anyone? That thing basically parks where it wants every turn.

In short, CR90's will hit further, for longer.

Raiders would have the advantage in a knife fight, but it's not like bringing CR90's to close range is really that easy either.

Also easy to blast piece by piece, just like swarms and cr90s.

Also sadly, theres' no mechanic in the game meant to help you survive for the turn better. If you land in front of a VSD, bye bye. No such thing as xwing evade tokens or doubling on focus and evade for better green dice. You just die.

I'd not throw out the concept just yet, we have no idea on many of the upgrades and new commanders that may be coming along !

I'd not throw out the concept just yet, we have no idea on many of the upgrades and new commanders that may be coming along !

Exactly !

Plus, 2 blues, 2 blacks from the front arc is nothing to laugh at, really, compared to the Corvette's 2R 1B. Throw in Rapid reload adding two extra black dice and there we have a very interesting ship. Plus, with the good anti-squadron value, this ship can work independently while it arrives at close range to be a dagger to the back or side of a ship !

Another pro, possibly, this ship will be able to take missile upgrades and depending on its cost, adding assault concussion missiles to 7 or 8 of them will increase their damage to an un-believable level, assuming they all can get a shot.

i am excited to run 8 if points allow it.

Oh i'm not throwing it out....i remain forever open to evolving tactics. I just think that with what we currently have knowledge of, it will be less effective overall than the CR90 swarm.

They do do more damage, but you have to get to instant-death range of the return fire. Raiders/Corvettes simply die horribly at Black dice range. Now, granted thats an acceptable trade as long as you cause more damage than your ship costs.

Upgrades are a sticky proposition. Swarms work due to saturation....saturation of activations, individual targets and number of return attacks. Adding upgrades reduces your shipcount, which reduces all of those things. It does make your remaining ships hit harder, but does nothing to let them survive....quite the opposite, it reduces the target saturation effect, and means each loss will hurt you more.

Swarms by their nature lose combat effectiveness rapidly, due to rapid attrition and ship loss. Raiders will suffer from this even worse. They will effectively rely on a very fast alpha strike. If they can cripple or kill enough of the enemy fleet, they stand a good chance. if they DON'T, the return fire will simply be unsustainable for them. They will lose ships, reducing their firepower and target saturation, resulting in slower kills, resulting in more lost ships....it's a rapid downward spiral.

It should be fun to see at least!

On top of that nobody should support or even like that silly invented Raider.

On top of that nobody should support or even like that silly invented Raider.

Taste is a personal issue. And i would point out that ALL Star Wars ships are both invented, and really quite silly

I have no strong feelings either way myself on the Raider. I don't think it really needed to be created, but on the other hand it's less dumb than some of the existing ships so....yeah.

On top of that nobody should support or even like that silly invented Raider.

Esthetically speaking, I much prefer it to the Tartan patrol cruiser

On top of that nobody should support or even like that silly invented Raider.

Raiders are cool. Better than much of the EU, and were at least approved by LFL.

On top of that nobody should support or even like that silly invented Raider.

Taste is a personal issue. And i would point out that ALL Star Wars ships are both invented, and really quite silly

I have no strong feelings either way myself on the Raider. I don't think it really needed to be created, but on the other hand it's less dumb than some of the existing ships so....yeah.

Of course. And of course my reply was meant this way however the Raider is extra silly.

Fluffwise there is no need for it and beside that the construction is also very very silly. What in the Peak? No crew can enter it? And why would anybody shrink an SD and put TIE Wins on it. I mean did the inventor (from FFG , not Sienar/Kuat) really try or was it Friday and wanted to go home?

On top of that nobody should support or even like that silly invented Raider.

Taste is a personal issue. And i would point out that ALL Star Wars ships are both invented, and really quite silly

I have no strong feelings either way myself on the Raider. I don't think it really needed to be created, but on the other hand it's less dumb than some of the existing ships so....yeah.

Of course. And of course my reply was meant this way however the Raider is extra silly.

Fluffwise there is no need for it and beside that the construction is also very very silly. What in the Peak? No crew can enter it? And why would anybody shrink an SD and put TIE Wins on it. I mean did the inventor (from FFG , not Sienar/Kuat) really try or was it Friday and wanted to go home?

The Raider is actually quite a brilliant design. From what I've come to understand of it:

It was created by Lira Wessex, designer of the Imperial Class Star Destroyer. Its position in the Imperial Navy was as a multi-role corvette. In large scale battles, the Raider was designed to cover the Star Destroyer's weak points: its fat, cushy rear/flanks, and its vulnerability to enemy fighters and bombers. The Raider would take up flanking position alongside Star Destroyers, protecting their flanks from smaller enemy ships (like the CR90) and from enemy starfighters. This allowed the captain of the Star Destroyer the ability to put his efforts into positioning his ship to best focus the SD's massive frontal firepower to where it is needed. Outside of these large scale engagements, the Raider was used for scouting and patrol purposes; its small size let it move less noticeably than a pair of Star Destroyers, and it could keep up with smaller, flighty enemy ships easier.

Because it doesn't share the massive shield generators that the Star Destroyer has, the raised bridge was lowered and streamlined along the main hull. The ship's TIE-style wings are atmospheric compensators, similar to those found on the Victory Star Destroyer, allowing it to operate in-atmosphere as well as in space. I'd imagine they could also be used to deflect an enemy shot or two, if the captain needed to do so to prevent something nasty from hitting the main hull of the ship.

It was designed by the FFG team in conjunction with Lucasarts. The main idea behind it was that the Imperials had no small, corvette sized ship, and they wanted a counterpart to the CR-90 that could be used in the X-Wing games. So, they created the Raider. Even though its origins are from a marketing-based perspective, I think the design team certainly had fun making a good looking and respectable addition to the Star Wars universe's fleet of ships.

And it's a **** sexy looking thing.

Of course. And of course my reply was meant this way however the Raider is extra silly.

Fluffwise there is no need for it and beside that the construction is also very very silly. What in the Peak? No crew can enter it? And why would anybody shrink an SD and put TIE Wins on it. I mean did the inventor (from FFG , not Sienar/Kuat) really try or was it Friday and wanted to go home?

Real boats have a "peak" shaped front hull and nobody never complained about not being able that they had to squeeze to get on it Obviously, that shaped serves a proper function in real life boats but the same can be said about the Raider, let me explain.

The wedge shape of a ship allows to put guns on the same facing that are slightly offset from one another, that are closer to the centerline of the ship the closer you get to the bow (think of the Star Destroyer Typically). What this design offers is to allow all guns from both sides to be able to bring maximum firepower in an enemy situated at the bow (and mechanics wise, Armada represents this with a nasty bow firing arc for the Star Destroyers). If they were aligned in renaissance era ships, you could only be able to fire a single cannon at the front, and the SDs would become Broadside ships.

With the Raider, not only it has a horizontal wedge, but a pronounced vertical wedge. What that offers is the ability to throw even more guns (because now you can afford to place some behind others) and still be able to fire with all batteries at things in front of you. Which makes sense when you're firing at snubfighters where you want to bring as many light AA guns as possible in any facings. Technically it makes sense, and the Raider also has a wedge shape in the third axis.

Finally, because it's 150meters long, I'm pretty sure the bow "peak" compartment is about 2 meters high when you remove the hull plating. Besides, it's a freaking combat ship, not a luxury yacht

I was midway through typing stuff, but got double ninja'd by better replies. So...yeah.

What they said.

I was midway through typing stuff, but got double ninja'd by better replies. So...yeah.

What they said.

Fluffwise there is no need for it

As is pointed out, lore wise there's a lot of need for it. Turbolasers have trouble hitting rebel fighters, so a dedicated heavy anti-fighter platform makes sense. It also makes sense to have small and cheap ships to use when a full blown ISD isn't needed. There's a finite number of ISD's in the galaxy so they can't be every where.

Honestly there is as much reason for a Raider in the Star Wars universe as there is for the Navy to still have destroyers and frigates.

This is the one ship I've been waiting for since it was previewed. I can see swarm Raider fleets all going by the name Tarkin's Raiders. Going to have to get at least 3 or 4 of these guys.

6) X-Wing style TIE-Fighter blocking- Anyone who's played X-Wing knows the anguish of fighting against a TIE-Fighter spam. Essentially, sacrificing one ship to block off your opponent's movements and set them up to be hit repeatedly by other ships. Another thread recently posted about Gladiator Boxing went over some of this strategy just recently, and I think that, while not as effective as the Gladiator at it, the Raiders can still implement similar aggravating tactics.

This is a PRO, is it? Seems like a steaming pile of CON to me.

Besides which, remaining in my forward arc, and not moving away from my bombers cannot possibly be seen as a smart move.

Fluffwise there is no need for it

As is pointed out, lore wise there's a lot of need for it. Turbolasers have trouble hitting rebel fighters, so a dedicated heavy anti-fighter platform makes sense. It also makes sense to have small and cheap ships to use when a full blown ISD isn't needed. There's a finite number of ISD's in the galaxy so they can't be every where.

Honestly there is as much reason for a Raider in the Star Wars universe as there is for the Navy to still have destroyers and frigates.

The reason there was no need for it lore-wise is that they had ships to do this already....the Lancer Frigate being probably the most lethal example.

Likewise for the small patrol ship role they have the Carrack, Tartan, Nebulon-B, etc etc.

However, there was still a game need for a recognisably Imperial ship the size of the CR90 to act as an opponent in X-Wing epic. That's the sole reason it was created...none of the existing ships were the correct size and/or look.

Fluffwise there is no need for it

As is pointed out, lore wise there's a lot of need for it. Turbolasers have trouble hitting rebel fighters, so a dedicated heavy anti-fighter platform makes sense. It also makes sense to have small and cheap ships to use when a full blown ISD isn't needed. There's a finite number of ISD's in the galaxy so they can't be every where.

Honestly there is as much reason for a Raider in the Star Wars universe as there is for the Navy to still have destroyers and frigates.

The reason there was no need for it lore-wise is that they had ships to do this already....the Lancer Frigate being probably the most lethal example.

Likewise for the small patrol ship role they have the Carrack, Tartan, Nebulon-B, etc etc.

However, there was still a game need for a recognisably Imperial ship the size of the CR90 to act as an opponent in X-Wing epic. That's the sole reason it was created...none of the existing ships were the correct size and/or look.

Thank goodness they did make the Raider then! Can you imagine how badly the Carrack would have failed as a product? It looks like a flying metal caterpillar. A giant mechanical turd.