It seems that You need to position absolutely perfectly, and you need to realise that your B-Wings get -one- shot at the Gladiator before it Unloads. And that failure on your part destroys your Neb, and leaves your B-Wings out of Range of probably everything else to ever do anything again with their speed of 2...

you don't have to position perfectly against GSDs, you just need to think ahead a little.

Demolisher jumping in with its one shot won't one-shot a healthy Neb (even a stupidly rolled perfect 8 damage is braced to 4 and then ACMs take out 2 shields, unless he opts for normal crit and you get even more unlucky); you can afford to take a shot on the chin and then retaliate.

Don't try to chase with B-wings, that's just not going to work. Keep them where the GSD is going to pimp slap you and get ready to unload.

black dice makes even Demolisher predictable, and you only need 2 yavarised Bs to unload more dice than any GSD with BlueBlackBlueBlackBlueBlackBlueBlack (split across 4 attacks to mitigate tokens) + Neb's shots

(unless you let it double arc you, in which case you still get more dice but the ACM procs will exceed your damage)

don't be afraid to trade a Neb for a GSD. You're coming out far ahead there, especially if you nab demolisher.

If you're using B-wings to counter demolisher, they are a counter-punch not an aggressive deterrent

I wonder if people actually watch my videos. . .

Seems like "the Internet meta" really hit hard and fast in this game.

Not much in the way of trend deviation when a faction is limited to two Ship choices. So ya, the Meta has stalled for Wave 1 @ 300ptS (his was 400pts).

Not all of us agree that ship only is the way to go and a single game at 400 played by someone biased towards ship only vs a player who admits that rebels may not be his thing is hardly conclusive.

Even nationals is not conclusive. Had the second place list of 2 whales, a vette and 3 A-wings not tanked against his round 1 opponent, lots of folks may be making the (erroneous) conclusion that THAT is the best list and all-ship killer.

All ships based on Demolisher is a fine list. But it's not everything. The game is far too young and even "nationals" had very green players playing in it. People put far too much stock on limited results.

Wave one is just akward. You have Rebels with three ships and Imperials with two ships... From what I see mostly alot of people jumped on the bandwagon of the spam Gladiators with screed, why? Because its ridiculous in how much dice can be thrown and not to mention the crits that it can deal and we all know how devastating crits are in this game. Anyone of you can sit there and argue against it all day. But You can never tell me that's its not overpowered. You can argue positioning , load outs or whatever you want all day. But I can't see any Rebel player Lasting long against three or four Gladiators with ACM's and Screed. It's like an automatic middle finger to whoever you play against. Swoop in with all your Gladiators box your opponent in unload all your black dice with your crazy crits provided by Screed reap the benefits. Yes I seen this list over and over played against different opponent setups over and over and each game ends the same... The person who is victim to such a list is either tabled or lives long enough to limp into the end of round six. I'm sorry I am not on the same bandwagon as all the other rebel players on this forum.. Praising the wave one rebel ships and what not. But not me.

I am not at all impressed with wave one Rebels. You all can get pissed at me cuss me , tell me I'm a sh*tty player or flame the **** out of me . but this is my opinion im intitled to my opinion and I don't care if anyone doesn't like my opinion. But don't you dare be offended by my opinion. This is just a game. And I this is what I'm seeing in wave one. This is what I'm seeing people resort to in builds for wave one. I'm calling it like I see it. Even if no one wants to hear it

I can't watch it atm, Lyraeus, but I'll look later: however, just like the vassal example posted recently: this is pretty hard to care about. It's not in a proper context (full list, obstacles, objectives, etc) to really take seriously.

Another interesting note: what did xwing first look like? It had even fewer options if you think about it. Wave 2 will be a massive boon to the game for sure.

I can't watch it atm, Lyraeus, but I'll look later: however, just like the vassal example posted recently: this is pretty hard to care about. It's not in a proper context (full list, obstacles, objectives, etc) to really take seriously.

Another interesting note: what did xwing first look like? It had even fewer options if you think about it. Wave 2 will be a massive boon to the game for sure.

I agree on the massive boone aspect. New ships, new upgrades, new characters. Looks promising

I can't watch it atm, Lyraeus, but I'll look later: however, just like the vassal example posted recently: this is pretty hard to care about. It's not in a proper context (full list, obstacles, objectives, etc) to really take seriously.

Another interesting note: what did xwing first look like? It had even fewer options if you think about it. Wave 2 will be a massive boon to the game for sure.

to hear of it, X-wing was, during waves 1-3, actually named Tie Fighter miniatures

FFG's learned a lot since then, though (no green dice here!)

X-wing mini had far fewer options at wave 1's release. We may only have 5 ships total, but the objectives, commanders, and (apparently not) squadrons add tons of variety.

I can't watch it atm, Lyraeus, but I'll look later: however, just like the vassal example posted recently: this is pretty hard to care about. It's not in a proper context (full list, obstacles, objectives, etc) to really take seriously.

Another interesting note: what did xwing first look like? It had even fewer options if you think about it. Wave 2 will be a massive boon to the game for sure.

I wonder if people actually watch my videos. . .

Well, you at least have 1 more new viewer! I didn't even know you made videos until now! I'm always looking for Armada stuff on Youtube!

I wonder if people actually watch my videos. . .

https://youtu.be/XZXKQ5d5EEk

Well, you at least have 1 more new viewer! I didn't even know you made videos until now! I'm always looking for Armada stuff on Youtube!

......but who is going to fly a single GSD at some B-Wings. In every encounter I have seen. I seen two or three Gladiators going after a single target and well I don't need to tell you that usually that target that is getting swarmed by the Gladiators is usually gone shortly after.

if whatever is "gone shortly after" is cheaper than the GSDs (which is everything else on a small base), then you're doing fine

just don't help them out by flying directly at them. I made that mistake in a tournie against skreed vsd and 2 ACM GSDs. Hilariously, almost won regardless because of squadrons (As & Bs) carrying the game, but I was off by one goddamn hull on skreed's VSD

I wonder if people actually watch my videos. . .https://youtu.be/XZXKQ5d5EEk

Well, you at least have 1 more new viewer! I didn't even know you made videos until now! I'm always looking for Armada stuff on Youtube!

yea

......but who is going to fly a single GSD at some B-Wings. In every encounter I have seen. I seen two or three Gladiators going after a single target and well I don't need to tell you that usually that target that is getting swarmed by the Gladiators is usually gone shortly after.

I can't watch it atm, Lyraeus, but I'll look later: however, just like the vassal example posted recently: this is pretty hard to care about. It's not in a proper context (full list, obstacles, objectives, etc) to really take seriously.

Another interesting note: what did xwing first look like? It had even fewer options if you think about it. Wave 2 will be a massive boon to the game for sure.

to hear of it, X-wing was, during waves 1-3, actually named Tie Fighter miniatures

FFG's learned a lot since then, though (no green dice here!)

X-wing mini had far fewer options at wave 1's release. We may only have 5 ships total, but the objectives, commanders, and (apparently not) squadrons add tons of variety.

Haha...Imps have it very limited in Armada: two ships with fairly limited upgrades to customize things...but seriously, they have a utopia of options compared to TIE fighters...or TIE fighters...or other TIE fighters.

I can't watch it atm, Lyraeus, but I'll look later: however, just like the vassal example posted recently: this is pretty hard to care about. It's not in a proper context (full list, obstacles, objectives, etc) to really take seriously.

Another interesting note: what did xwing first look like? It had even fewer options if you think about it. Wave 2 will be a massive boon to the game for sure.

Though a full battle is missing, it is still a very likely scenario.

Perhaps, but I agree with FGD: consider that you can show this exact video/situation and I can very easily argue that "yes, that just happened, but I still win the game and I'm glad I forced you to kill my Neb in this way because I wanted you to"

So, it's an interesting data point, sure; but it's not really that important to even note imo.

I wonder if people actually watch my videos. . .https://youtu.be/XZXKQ5d5EEk

Well, you at least have 1 more new viewer! I didn't even know you made videos until now! I'm always looking for Armada stuff on Youtube!

yea

......but who is going to fly a single GSD at some B-Wings. In every encounter I have seen. I seen two or three Gladiators going after a single target and well I don't need to tell you that usually that target that is getting swarmed by the Gladiators is usually gone shortly after.

I don't know what to tell you. This is a fake where we trade activations. If you are letting Gladiators get the drop on you and several of them at that then you are doing something wrong. I usually can single out a Gladiator and drop it.

hahahahahah no I don't just let Gladiators ......an average game with Darth Lupine goes as such I position my ships he positions his. No matter how I play them he usually does after my nebs I play the Neb gun line ..and eventually they get flanked by his Gladiators. Meanwhile my other ships do their best to stay out of firing arca of his other ships. ...It's easier to watch than to explain and I soooo wish you could have a chance to play against him just once....you see Darth Lupine doesn't play for objective points he plays to kill off every last one of your ships. His only goal ..to table you. He will use his Gladiators in a gun line box your ship in destroy and move on, all the Gladiators are equipped with ACM's one of them is Demolisher. And of course Screed is backing them up. There so far has only been one person to beat him and he was using three Assault Frigates and even at that it was a narrow win. Now both of them are hard core wargamers , very competitive and have been playing games such as this and more for some time now. The only honest way I can see anyone winning a game against Darth Lupine is playing a mirror match against him using the same tactics against him. Other than that...good luck

That's fine, if his plan is to come after your ships then you know what he is going to do. Don't let him be first and watch your placement.

True, and I would love to play some games against him. I'm wondering, however, what objectives are good to turn against him. I believe he stated he will avoid any objectives that award points, and because of that; and me running Prec. Strike and Sup. Pos.; we're likely to see a yellow mission. Fleet ambush might actually be favorable to him. Hyperspace assault might actually be a heavy counter to his list, as It's possible to drop my largest ship behind his victory and pound it flat while he weather fire from squadrons for 2-3 turns.

The fun one could be Contested Outpost. This would leave 3 different scoring objectives to choose from, though with Outpost it might force his hand in directing his ships such that squadrons can do a more effective job of firing and laying down withering fire while all the ship duke it out over the points: though he has a lot of options to out-score most 2 ship lists via command.

Bottom line: we need more Vassal games!!

Minefields work here.

You can always make sure that there are objectives that give points.

Advanced Gunnery, Fire Lanes, and Dangerous Territory all work great here

I don't play Vassal, I want to use my beautiful models!!

Thanks for the kind words, Graves13! I've been playing war games and studying military strategy and tactics since I was 12. Then I joined the Army and ended up a tank commander for 21 years, so tactics come easy to me.

I've played against Hyperspace assault before. Seeing I always go full speed ahead, I've not seen much impact as by the time the enemy ship comes out, I'm already shooting at the remainder. It is always a concern tough.

Contested outpost would be interesting.

Minefields don't affect my gameplay at all. Only hit a mine once, ignored the damage. I've got maneuvering down to the millimeter almost, so threading between two mines is no issue.

Fire lanes is what I played with Graves13, and I ended up with more points than he did. Imps just pack too much firepower. And I was ignoring the counters!

Haven't played Dangerous Territory yet. Will have to try it.

And I do agree...wave two will definitely give the Rebs a lot of options they just lack right now. It's going to completely shake up the current meta of the game...and that's a good thing!

Wave 2 will bring the MC30 which like it or not will be the nemesis to the Gladiator. Add in Akbar and Rapid Reload and a MC30 is shooting 8 dice worth of damage (though not at good in my opinion to 2 arcs)

The MC80 will be vicious as well since it will punish ships at all ranges.

I don't play Vassal, I want to use my beautiful models!!

Thanks for the kind words, Graves13! I've been playing war games and studying military strategy and tactics since I was 12. Then I joined the Army and ended up a tank commander for 21 years, so tactics come easy to me.

I've played against Hyperspace assault before. Seeing I always go full speed ahead, I've not seen much impact as by the time the enemy ship comes out, I'm already shooting at the remainder. It is always a concern tough.

Contested outpost would be interesting.

Minefields don't affect my gameplay at all. Only hit a mine once, ignored the damage. I've got maneuvering down to the millimeter almost, so threading between two mines is no issue.

Fire lanes is what I played with Graves13, and I ended up with more points than he did. Imps just pack too much firepower. And I was ignoring the counters!

Haven't played Dangerous Territory yet. Will have to try it.

Well, if you're blasting full-speed ahead, that makes me think I'll have an even better chance with Hyperspace Assault. I can jump my demolisher to speed 3 on turn 2-3 past your line, as you're driving right at me, and my 2-speed Vic can jump out (hopefully) fairly close to your Vic's flank. You'll now have to spend time turning around while I unload on the slower vic/any stragglers?

Mind you, this is theory, though due to "momentum" on ships it's not completely out of my ass. You're also probably better at flying than me, so it'd be a challenge for sure.

I agree with wanting to play with the models (my favorite part of x-wing/armada, star wars ships are the best sci-fi ships of all time), but i like the actual game so much I don't mind slumming it iwth 2d representations on the interwebs and the only access to a varied pool of players...that apparently could give me some challenge over my local selection :\

I don't play Vassal, I want to use my beautiful models!!

Thanks for the kind words, Graves13! I've been playing war games and studying military strategy and tactics since I was 12. Then I joined the Army and ended up a tank commander for 21 years, so tactics come easy to me.

I've played against Hyperspace assault before. Seeing I always go full speed ahead, I've not seen much impact as by the time the enemy ship comes out, I'm already shooting at the remainder. It is always a concern tough.

Contested outpost would be interesting.

Minefields don't affect my gameplay at all. Only hit a mine once, ignored the damage. I've got maneuvering down to the millimeter almost, so threading between two mines is no issue.

Fire lanes is what I played with Graves13, and I ended up with more points than he did. Imps just pack too much firepower. And I was ignoring the counters!

Haven't played Dangerous Territory yet. Will have to try it.

Well, if you're blasting full-speed ahead, that makes me think I'll have an even better chance with Hyperspace Assault. I can jump my demolisher to speed 3 on turn 2-3 past your line, as you're driving right at me, and my 2-speed Vic can jump out (hopefully) fairly close to your Vic's flank. You'll now have to spend time turning around while I unload on the slower vic/any stragglers?

Mind you, this is theory, though due to "momentum" on ships it's not completely out of my ass. You're also probably better at flying than me, so it'd be a challenge for sure.

I agree with wanting to play with the models (my favorite part of x-wing/armada, star wars ships are the best sci-fi ships of all time), but i like the actual game so much I don't mind slumming it iwth 2d representations on the interwebs and the only access to a varied pool of players...that apparently could give me some challenge over my local selection :\

I keep telling everyone, if they are getting consistent high Margin of Victory wins they need to either teach or they need new opponents because the people you are playing against dont have the tactics to keep up.

Send them my way. I will be starting up tactics videos soon!

. The only honest way I can see anyone winning a game against Darth Lupine is playing a mirror match against him using the same tactics against him. Other than that...good luck

err...I think you'd need more luck in the mirror match, not only to match the dicefest but because you're trying to match a player using a list he is very practiced with. At that point, luck's the only thing that'll bail you out