Alex Davy casually mentions Vader equipping the X1 title + ATC for the Season 2 finale of Rebels. So, title compatibility confirmed?

...

No.

Darth Vader being able to equip TIE/x1 to his TIE advanced x1 has nothing to do with breaking the rules by equipping TIE/x1 to a TIE advanced v1.

Are the Scyk's problems somehow meta-related? It's basically a TIE Fighter that costs 16% more and gives you no real benefit for the cost except the potential to waste a lot of points on a super-fragile cannon carrier. It's not like that was somehow great when they designed it but the meta ran away from it between design and release. Even if it was, is there some meta shift that will make that somehow better? If all of a sudden the two-fat meta vanished, does anyone really think the Scyk is just waiting in the wings to jump in as the new best of the best?

Yes, at least in part. HLCs were a huge consideration in the Wave 3-4 metagame--certainly a bigger consideration than they've become since then. They still didn't really have a good idea whether it was correctly priced with respect to the way it was deployed on the Lambda and B-wing, let alone on a ship that's potentially 5 points cheaper than the next-cheapest option for fielding a cannon.

I'm a little disappointed nobody cares that for the umpteenth time AGAIN we have large base turret ships completely winning and dominating the the top tables. See the Nationals again. AGAIN.

I'd rather play wave 4 phantom fat han meta.

They still didn't really have a good idea whether it was correctly priced...

Maybe we just have a difference in definitions, but this is not a metagame issue. It's FFG's blindfold-plus-dartboard approach to pricing anything and everything in this game.

I'm a little disappointed nobody cares that for the umpteenth time AGAIN we have large base turret ships completely winning and dominating the the top tables. See the Nationals again. AGAIN.

I'd rather play wave 4 phantom fat han meta.

Is there any point to caring about it any more? Or at least to discussing it?

People who think there's a problem will think it's one more data point in the already-overwhelming proof that turrets are a problem. People who don't think there's a problem will pick one of the varied reasons why this particular data point doesn't mean anything.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm just exhausted. Problem or not, the game's turned into something I just don't enjoy, and I've basically quit. I keep hoping that something will change, but so far, pretty much nothing. At this point, it's pretty clear that they're either intentionally creating a game I don't find interesting, or they want to make a game I find interesting but are incapable of doing so. Either way, I've largely given up on it.

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a blindfolded dartboard. They err on the side of caution to avoid breaking things. I'd much rather a smattering of duds than one broken dominator.

They just didn't want a meta where 5 HLC could be in one list. Which would make the generic A-wings even more redundant than people were afraid they were.

They just didn't want a meta where 5 HLC could be in one list. Which would make the generic A-wings even more redundant than people were afraid they were.

I think you're onto something there. Quite often the ships are priced based on allowing/preventing certain builds, far more than technical jousting values.

Sometimes this leads to things being that wee touch too much - in Wave 1, it was 5x rookies they were scared of. In Wave 7, it was 5x HLC Scyks, or possibly 4x HLC Scycks with some combination of upgrades that made them a little nervous.

Interestingly, both times turned out to be a mistake... but I can understand where the caution comes from, even if it's prone to creating errors.

Buhallin, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:10 PM, said:

Blail Blerg, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:03 PM, said:

I'm a little disappointed nobody cares that for the umpteenth time AGAIN we have large base turret ships completely winning and dominating the the top tables. See the Nationals again. AGAIN.

I'd rather play wave 4 phantom fat han meta.

Is there any point to caring about it any more? Or at least to discussing it?

People who think there's a problem will think it's one more data point in the already-overwhelming proof that turrets are a problem. People who don't think there's a problem will pick one of the varied reasons why this particular data point doesn't mean anything.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm just exhausted. Problem or not, the game's turned into something I just don't enjoy, and I've basically quit. I keep hoping that something will change, but so far, pretty much nothing. At this point, it's pretty clear that they're either intentionally creating a game I don't find interesting, or they want to make a game I find interesting but are incapable of doing so. Either way, I've largely given up on it.

You should entertain the notion that you are incorrect in your assertion turrets are a problem. List diversity is there as stated by the game designers and others many times.

Some folks simply hate turrets and want the game to be all about arc dodging. Its not going to be all arc dodging because there are quite a few turrets in the Star Wars universe and as Alex stated they are trying to keep true to the Star Wars setting.

I fully expect tie advanced and bombers to make a dent in the large base ship lists. But the meta of this game is dynamic and changes are normal.

Wings of war is a good game for strictly arc dodging dogfighting if you are looking only for that play style. You are correct that there is not much point in beating a dead horse by continual complaining about turrets however.

Yeesh did I fall off the bandwagon or something?

The victory of weird dash (as he is hitherto christened) and 2 BSPs is both heartening and ******* hilarious.

Sure there are way too many pwts in top places but I also spied panic attack and bbbbz

While it's true that pwts are a horrible bit of game design that transform thus wonderful game into a dicefest, Wave 6 ain't got **** one Wave 5 (shudder)

Also Wave 7 looks stupid fun. So much bombs/mines; so much maneuvers

The rise of turrets was sudden; the Phantom was key to it being quite so meteoric.

Its demise shall be more gradual, as both the tools to counter them and the tactics to do so will evolve. Remember that until the Phantom nerf, counters were hobbled by Whisper. Soontir is a similar problem, but less extreme, so such lists actually have a shot whatsoever these days.

The new swiss rules should help, too. Partial MoV matters less when pairings are random... and that leaves the door open to a Falcon staring down the table at swarms.

Reiver, on 05 Aug 2015 - 6:22 PM, said:

The rise of turrets was sudden; the Phantom was key to it being quite so meteoric.

Its demise shall be more gradual, as both the tools to counter them and the tactics to do so will evolve. Remember that until the Phantom nerf, counters were hobbled by Whisper. Soontir is a similar problem, but less extreme, so such lists actually have a shot whatsoever these days.

The new swiss rules should help, too. Partial MoV matters less when pairings are random... and that leaves the door open to a Falcon staring down the table at swarms.

Good points.

What is the new rule changes to swiss? Total randomness would be better if that is the case I agree. Even in casual play I never play the same list in a row so leaving my opponents guessing what will come. Makes all builds possible as almost everything does counter something else.

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a blindfolded dartboard. They err on the side of caution to avoid breaking things. I'd much rather a smattering of duds than one broken dominator.

Sorry, but just... No. There's truly no reality-based evaluation of X-wing's cost system in which FFG's only problem is an over abundance of caution.

So in the background, is that Black Widow playing a game with the wicked witch of the west?

Because that's pretty great

My heart tells me that's actually ScarJo in her actual Black Window costume, playing games like it's every day.

Buhallin, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:10 PM, said:

Blail Blerg, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:03 PM, said:

I'm a little disappointed nobody cares that for the umpteenth time AGAIN we have large base turret ships completely winning and dominating the the top tables. See the Nationals again. AGAIN.

I'd rather play wave 4 phantom fat han meta.

Is there any point to caring about it any more? Or at least to discussing it?

People who think there's a problem will think it's one more data point in the already-overwhelming proof that turrets are a problem. People who don't think there's a problem will pick one of the varied reasons why this particular data point doesn't mean anything.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm just exhausted. Problem or not, the game's turned into something I just don't enjoy, and I've basically quit. I keep hoping that something will change, but so far, pretty much nothing. At this point, it's pretty clear that they're either intentionally creating a game I don't find interesting, or they want to make a game I find interesting but are incapable of doing so. Either way, I've largely given up on it.

You should entertain the notion that you are incorrect in your assertion turrets are a problem. List diversity is there as stated by the game designers and others many times.

Some folks simply hate turrets and want the game to be all about arc dodging. Its not going to be all arc dodging because there are quite a few turrets in the Star Wars universe and as Alex stated they are trying to keep true to the Star Wars setting.

I fully expect tie advanced and bombers to make a dent in the large base ship lists. But the meta of this game is dynamic and changes are normal.

Wings of war is a good game for strictly arc dodging dogfighting if you are looking only for that play style. You are correct that there is not much point in beating a dead horse by continual complaining about turrets however.

Buhallin, on 05 Aug 2015 - 6:50 PM, said:Buhallin, on 05 Aug 2015 - 6:50 PM, said:

Tokyogriz, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:47 PM, said:Tokyogriz, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:47 PM, said:

Buhallin, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:10 PM, said:Buhallin, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:10 PM, said:

Buhallin, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:10 PM, said:

Blail Blerg, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:03 PM, said:Blail Blerg, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:03 PM, said:

Blail Blerg, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:03 PM, said:

I'm a little disappointed nobody cares that for the umpteenth time AGAIN we have large base turret ships completely winning and dominating the the top tables. See the Nationals again. AGAIN.

I'd rather play wave 4 phantom fat han meta.

Is there any point to caring about it any more? Or at least to discussing it?

People who think there's a problem will think it's one more data point in the already-overwhelming proof that turrets are a problem. People who don't think there's a problem will pick one of the varied reasons why this particular data point doesn't mean anything.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm just exhausted. Problem or not, the game's turned into something I just don't enjoy, and I've basically quit. I keep hoping that something will change, but so far, pretty much nothing. At this point, it's pretty clear that they're either intentionally creating a game I don't find interesting, or they want to make a game I find interesting but are incapable of doing so. Either way, I've largely given up on it.

You should entertain the notion that you are incorrect in your assertion turrets are a problem. List diversity is there as stated by the game designers and others many times.

Some folks simply hate turrets and want the game to be all about arc dodging. Its not going to be all arc dodging because there are quite a few turrets in the Star Wars universe and as Alex stated they are trying to keep true to the Star Wars setting.

I fully expect tie advanced and bombers to make a dent in the large base ship lists. But the meta of this game is dynamic and changes are normal.

Wings of war is a good game for strictly arc dodging dogfighting if you are looking only for that play style. You are correct that there is not much point in beating a dead horse by continual complaining about turrets however.

Thanks for providing such an excellent example to support what was the actual point of my post, which you missed in a truly impressive fashion.

Buhalin, you state the following -

"I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm just exhausted. Problem or not, the game's turned into something I just don't enjoy, and I've basically quit. I keep hoping that something will change, but so far, pretty much nothing. At this point, it's pretty clear that they're either intentionally creating a game I don't find interesting, or they want to make a game I find interesting but are incapable of doing so. Either way, I've largely given up on it.:"

If this paragraph is true then why are you even on this forum Buhalin? Just to be a negative Nancy or just trollin for fun? Get a life or find a new game if you actually feel this way.

Alex Davy casually mentions Vader equipping the X1 title + ATC for the Season 2 finale of Rebels. So, title compatibility confirmed?

...

No.

Darth Vader being able to equip TIE/x1 to his TIE advanced x1 has nothing to do with breaking the rules by equipping TIE/x1 to a TIE advanced v1.

No, we're talking the much older, "can Vader even equip the x1 title, since his ship is already the x1?"

Damnit, now I NEED to know what 4-LOM does...

The rise of turrets was sudden; the Phantom was key to it being quite so meteoric.

Its demise shall be more gradual, as both the tools to counter them and the tactics to do so will evolve. Remember that until the Phantom nerf, counters were hobbled by Whisper. Soontir is a similar problem, but less extreme, so such lists actually have a shot whatsoever these days.

The new swiss rules should help, too. Partial MoV matters less when pairings are random... and that leaves the door open to a Falcon staring down the table at swarms.

Nice interview

I wish they could have picked his brain a bit about the World Championship signup situation. It would hand been interesting if there was any official company line that he could share with the fans.

PhantomFO, on 05 Aug 2015 - 7:20 PM, said:

I wish they could have picked his brain a bit about the World Championship signup situation. It would hand been interesting if there was any official company line that he could share with the fans.

Check out the FFG in Fight Review at Gencon 2015. Team covenant has a great video of it. That question was asked and they pretty much said it was a mess, but that they want to keep actual tournament limited. Maybe next year they are planning some sort of campaign or other play options for the masses at gencon. It was hinted at in the in flight discussion by Steve the head of FFG OP.

Damnit, now I NEED to know what 4-LOM does...

Same here. As if I could be any less excited for wave 8!

And on a side note, does anyone else besides Alex call him 4 "L-O-M"? I never spell it out how he does. I know it stands for "love of money" but I've only ever heard it pronounced 4-LOM as in rhymes with bomb.

You should entertain the notion that you are incorrect in your assertion turrets are a problem. List diversity is there as stated by the game designers and others many times.

If by list diversity you mean Dual IG's, the 3 dumb fat turrets, Super Corran, Super Whisper, Soontir, and B Wing spams then okay. Keep in mind that all of those are typically part of two ship lists besides for the B Wings of course.

Someone throwing a proximity mine on an already fat Deci isn't flying some super creative interesting list that's different in any significant way from a fat Deci without a prox mine.

This would be like if the meta was dominated by TIE Swarms, Z Swarms, and the 7x M3-A swarm and someone said, "I think we had a lot of diversity in the top 16, I saw a lot of different lists out there. The top 16 we had a big diversity in lists, a lot of similar archetypes but all things considered I think the diversity right now is better than it has been in a long time"

I wish they could have picked his brain a bit about the World Championship signup situation. It would hand been interesting if there was any official company line that he could share with the fans.

Someone asked a similar question at the in flight report. The response was that they have plans to sport big events for players that are more serious than a store event and more casual than a regional.