So, you want it to play in the way you want, not how it is currently able to.

Vorpal Sword, on 05 Aug 2015 - 4:27 PM, said:

Shado, on 05 Aug 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

I have yet to actually play a scum HWK, or even against one for that matter. My intentions lean more to the Rebel side of things.

Things the Rebel HWK needs to continue to be interesting and relevant:

• New crew
• New turrets

Since both of those things are coming in Waves 7-8, I'm not sure the HWK needs a dedicated fix.

I would like to see a turret that has a bit more offense than Ion cannon say 2 damage and still has same effect. HWK only. That would be a decent fix IMO.

You want to do something with the HWK? Make a title that DECREASES his attack and also decreases its cost. Boom. You are just going to use the turret anyway.

That's... actually pretty clever.

It could come on a Scum ship too, and 'conviniently' not have a restriction attached. It's only turret-toters that would dare to use it anyhow.

Ah, but what about Outriders? Perhaps it's a modification, so you end up with a cheaper YT-2400, but a crippled Dash. It'd only need to be a point or two in savings, anyway.

I still haven't tried out my Jan gunboat yet.

I have yet to actually play a scum HWK, or even against one for that matter. My intentions lean more to the Rebel side of things.

Things the Rebel HWK needs to continue to be interesting and relevant:

• New crew
• New turrets

Since both of those things are coming in Waves 7-8, I'm not sure the HWK needs a dedicated fix.

A turret helps both scum and rebels, but I agree that new crew is needed for the HWK, and either new pilots or a rebel only title. I've played both scum and rebel HWKs and the scum HWKs can be nasty, (especially Palob) where the rebel HWKs have good abilities but less survivability. This will be exacerbated by the new illicit cloak, imagine Palob rolling around with 4 evade dice 5 with a stealth device stripping tokens and lots of focus to burn for defense. If he uses the stygian he gets a free evade when he decloaks before he fires.

Don't worry!

FFG will fix every thing wrong in X-Wing in the second edition. With smaller models of course.

You want to do something with the HWK? Make a title that DECREASES his attack and also decreases its cost. Boom. You are just going to use the turret anyway.

What? No way. You can't have a ship with an intrinsic attack value of 0. What do you do when it's the last ship on the board, and lost its turret to a crit? You can no longer achieve a win condition because you cannot attack, and you open the possibility to the opponent's only win condition being the clock running out, because you are in an infinite chase (depending on the opponent's last remaining ship's dial). How does that work in untimed championship rounds?

I have yet to actually play a scum HWK, or even against one for that matter. My intentions lean more to the Rebel side of things.

Things the Rebel HWK needs to continue to be interesting and relevant:

• New crew
• New turrets

Since both of those things are coming in Waves 7-8, I'm not sure the HWK needs a dedicated fix.

A turret helps both scum and rebels, but I agree that new crew is needed for the HWK, and either new pilots or a rebel only title. I've played both scum and rebel HWKs and the scum HWKs can be nasty, (especially Palob) where the rebel HWKs have good abilities but less survivability. This will be exacerbated by the new illicit cloak, imagine Palob rolling around with 4 evade dice 5 with a stealth device stripping tokens and lots of focus to burn for defense. If he uses the stygian he gets a free evade when he decloaks before he fires.

He's got great defense until he rolls an eyeball at the end of a round and his cloak goes "poof!" and the points he spent on SPA are wasted. If you are afraid of cloaked Palob, just burn past and away from him. If he has to use the mobility of decloaking to catch back up to you that's just another chance that he'll waste the cloak without getting any defensive benefit from it.

If only there were expansions planned for the next couple of waves that added new options for turrets and some Rebel only crew.

Repost his here:

Military Retrofit, modification, hwk only, 2pt:

You may reduce your primary attack value by 1. If you equip a turret, reduce it's squad point cost by 4 (minimum 0). Your hull value increases by 1.

Repost his here:

Military Retrofit, modification, hwk only, 2pt:

You may reduce your primary attack value by 1. If you equip a turret, reduce it's squad point cost by 4 (minimum 0). Your hull value increases by 1.

Repost his here:

Military Retrofit, modification, hwk only, 2pt:

You may reduce your primary attack value by 1. If you equip a turret, reduce it's squad point cost by 4 (minimum 0). Your hull value increases by 1.

You just want to run 5 Rebel Operatives with TLTs and an extra hull, don't you? 30 dice on an opening round would be kind of impressive, even it's capped at 10 damage.

So we all remember Rebel Convoy. For those that don't it's 2x Outer Rim Smugglers and 2x Gold Squadron with Ion Turret.

I think it could now possibly work with the HWK

2x Outer Rim Smugglers with Tactical Jammer, 2x Rebel Operative w TLT.

0/2/5/1

360 turret ion

Crew

19pts

is going to break the game?

2 less hp and same cost as a ywing with less shielding, a worse dial, no kturn, can lose the ability to attack, and no btla so the ywing is still going to be better unless you can do something really special in the crew slots.

New turrets and new crew aren't going to save the hwk. If there is a good turret you get just as much or more putting it on a Y or a K. If the crew is good you put it on a bwing or YT. Without Strong HWK specific updates those things won't change.

Nobody flies generic HWKs because they're support ships. You take them for their pilot abilities and then you give them a turret to help out in the fighting.

You want to do something with the HWK? Make a title that DECREASES his attack and also decreases its cost. Boom. You are just going to use the turret anyway.

What? No way. You can't have a ship with an intrinsic attack value of 0. What do you do when it's the last ship on the board, and lost its turret to a crit? You can no longer achieve a win condition because you cannot attack, and you open the possibility to the opponent's only win condition being the clock running out, because you are in an infinite chase (depending on the opponent's last remaining ship's dial). How does that work in untimed championship rounds?

Thats the same as asking what happens if the last ship remaining is the GR-75. Are you going to Jam the other ships to death?

Nobody flies generic HWKs because they're support ships. You take them for their pilot abilities and then you give them a turret to help out in the fighting.

again read this https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/183336-how-rebel-operatives-hwks-went-9-3-over-regionals/

You want to do something with the HWK? Make a title that DECREASES his attack and also decreases its cost. Boom. You are just going to use the turret anyway.

What? No way. You can't have a ship with an intrinsic attack value of 0. What do you do when it's the last ship on the board, and lost its turret to a crit? You can no longer achieve a win condition because you cannot attack, and you open the possibility to the opponent's only win condition being the clock running out, because you are in an infinite chase (depending on the opponent's last remaining ship's dial). How does that work in untimed championship rounds?

Thats the same as asking what happens if the last ship remaining is the GR-75. Are you going to Jam the other ships to death?

At least there's a chance with that and Slicers, and a Huge ship still has the offensive ability of stepping on things with its mighty foot. But I'm less concerned with the purity of win conditions in Epic play.

I suppose there is the theoretical possibility of a weaponless (non-Huge) ship flying it's opponent into a corner and blocking it so that it has no choice but to fly off the board, thus getting the win. But that's astronomically improbable.

HWKs, even the generic ones are fine IMO. They're a budget Y Wing and while it's generally better to just pay the extra 2 points to get a Y, they have a niche with their crew slot. The named ones are decent support ships.

The problem is that in a meta dominated by hyper action economy on turrets, a ship with an X Wing's amount of health doesn't last very long. If Chiraneu with predator and Gunner is just going to dump incessant 3/3 or 4/4 hit attacks on it of course a Rebel Operative with an Ion turret slapped on it isn't going to do 21 points of work. That said, that triple Ion HWK, Z-95, and stresshog list does look decent even in today's Turretwing wasteland of a meta, I'd get a third HWK but my FLGS is out of them currently.

TLT is pretty big for rebel hwks.

It's not a Rebel exclusive, though, so you can still make the argument that it's lacking compared to the Scum version. I know that balance within it's own faction is much more important than just comparing it to it's Scum version, but it is a good indication that the Rebel versions could stand to gain a little help.

However, even though they could use a little help, they're not so far off that they can't be left alone. Nothing will ever be perfectly balanced. You just have to let the meta work itself to a balanced state then make tweaks and repeat.

It's really a judgment call for FFG.

TLT is pretty big for rebel hwks.

It's not a Rebel exclusive, though, so you can still make the argument that it's lacking compared to the Scum version. I know that balance within it's own faction is much more important than just comparing it to it's Scum version, but it is a good indication that the Rebel versions could stand to gain a little help.

Having a turret that hits at range 2 and 3 is a much bigger boost for Rebel HWKs than it is for Scum HWKs. TLTs might still be useful on some Scum HWKs but it doesn't complement the pilot abilities as much.

Ignore Dace for a minute as his ability more or less makes an ICT auto-include. Palob and Mux both need to be at range 1 or 2 of an enemy to use their abilities, that gives them only range 2 where they can use both their ability and turret on the same target if they use a TLT. With an ICT or Blaster Turret they can always attack the target that their power is affecting.

Rebel HWKs on the other hand all need to be at range 1-3 of a friendly to use their abilities. There is no need for them to get close to enemy ships. The TLT allows them to hang back at range three and make attacks that do not grant their target an extra green die while possibly getting one themselves.

Nobody flies generic HWKs because they're support ships. You take them for their pilot abilities and then you give them a turret to help out in the fighting.

again read this https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/183336-how-rebel-operatives-hwks-went-9-3-over-regionals/

As good as an example as that is, it still doesn't fully address what it is I would like to see. It pretty much comes down to me wishing there was more alternative ways to add a Rebel HWK to a competitive build without there having to be 3 of them, or a fairly substantial ammount of points in upgrades dumped on to one. I know there are a number of ways to use just one fairly effectively in a build, cheaply, but not all that cost effectively in a competitive arena. IMO

I don't know what you are griping about with the HWK. It's rare to see a shuttle taken for its pilot, most often is taken as a load of cheapish HP or as Vader's taxi. Jendon and Yorr really need their abilities to reach out to range three and so many things circumvent Kagi's ability he isn't much use.

I don't know what you are griping about with the HWK. It's rare to see a shuttle taken for its pilot, most often is taken as a load of cheapish HP or as Vader's taxi. Jendon and Yorr really need their abilities to reach out to range three and so many things circumvent Kagi's ability he isn't much use.

I save my griping to b!tch about my 55+ hour work week, and when my 2,4, and 7 year old kids are driving me nuts! Table top game mechanics are hardly enough to get me going .