guitalex2008 said:
I suppose the mission is to make a broken Crane Strike deck to force people to run Immovable Object
I could see a Lu Chen built with that card... but yeah, it's kind of... tricky.
Throws...the 'NEW' Cheap Trick?
Mt_Do said:
My point exactly shane. Chain Throws backed up by Absurd Strength was the madness back than. I hated getting pummeled to death by it. But it was a legitimate strategy. Very legitimate strategy. Just a hard one to deal with especially when you could recur it with all the nasty tricks you can pull and than have it thrown at you again so the insanity would never end. The truth is though is that it is going to have answers in a few sets anyways, I just hope that it is a balanced answer and not a retarded one like rejection or bad vitality gain like battle prowess.
Throws blocking throws for complete block would make sense though especially since in fighting games when two players perform throws they cancel each other out. As seen in Street Fighter IV for example and I am certain SC IV. That would solve the nuisance without being an overpowered dam. redux. Good suggestion I think.
I also remember back with CT and hammer days, that people would also use Scourge of Zeus to pump those chain throws even more which made it super ridicules.
Throws are more balance and I feel that if you are not running a low vitally character you will have the ability to survive.
For every -1 you get from negation you are netting -2 damage when you block. The problem is that any major negation either would have to be throw only( which makes it situational) or it would destroy itself.
darklogos said:
For every -1 you get from negation you are netting -2 damage when you block. The problem is that any major negation either would have to be throw only( which makes it situational) or it would destroy itself.
Speaking of which, I don't think I've ever seen a Low throw... meaning Temujin's stuff could be an interesting way to lower Throw damage.
Homme Chapeau said:
darklogos said:
For every -1 you get from negation you are netting -2 damage when you block. The problem is that any major negation either would have to be throw only( which makes it situational) or it would destroy itself.
Speaking of which, I don't think I've ever seen a Low throw... meaning Temujin's stuff could be an interesting way to lower Throw damage.
Algols 2CC throw is low......i cant remember the name off the top though
Da_ghetto_gamer said:
Homme Chapeau said:
darklogos said:
For every -1 you get from negation you are netting -2 damage when you block. The problem is that any major negation either would have to be throw only( which makes it situational) or it would destroy itself.
Speaking of which, I don't think I've ever seen a Low throw... meaning Temujin's stuff could be an interesting way to lower Throw damage.
Algols 2CC throw is low......i cant remember the name off the top though
Alphard Maliki, but who uses that?
Then again, if I was running through Fire with some tanking assets, I'd be running Immovable Object just to defend against that friggin' thing.
ROTBI said:
P.S. Guitalex2008, where were you when Fight or Flight was out? "My philosophy is that anything that gives more than +3 for a mere commit (speed or damage) is too much". I never heard anyone else back me on that.
um.....that is a bit disturbing I ain't going to lie.
Homme Chapeau said:
Da_ghetto_gamer said:
Homme Chapeau said:
darklogos said:
For every -1 you get from negation you are netting -2 damage when you block. The problem is that any major negation either would have to be throw only( which makes it situational) or it would destroy itself.
Speaking of which, I don't think I've ever seen a Low throw... meaning Temujin's stuff could be an interesting way to lower Throw damage.
Algols 2CC throw is low......i cant remember the name off the top though
Alphard Maliki, but who uses that?
I used to when i was running omar.....getting it back every turn was pretty sweet
Da_ghetto_gamer said:
I used to when i was running omar.....getting it back every turn was pretty sweet
True. Guaranteed 3 damage? sold.
The thing is tho, it's tricky to create a card to combat throws. You can't blank the keyword during the enhance step because Throw doesn't really kick in until the block step, so the blanking would fizzle after the enhance step.
The best way to combat throws would be to create something like Revenant's Calling was:
R Commit: After you completely block this attack, it deals no damage.
That's really the only thing you can do.
Shaneth said:
The thing is tho, it's tricky to create a card to combat throws. You can't blank the keyword during the enhance step because Throw doesn't really kick in until the block step, so the blanking would fizzle after the enhance step.
For the duration of this attack, the Throw keyword is removed from this card.
I guess that would work too. Sounds a little more weird than just saying this attack deals no damage.
Shaneth said:
I guess that would work too. Sounds a little more weird than just saying this attack deals no damage.
Just saying Revenant's Calling is not the only solution. Hell, anything that makes a card lose a keyword will work.
Revenant's can go die and rot in Legacy hell. But something that EXCLUSIVELY does the whole blocking/no damage thing would be nice.
Giving it to four resources in a BLANKET "until the beginning of your opponent's next turn" currently-uncounterable ability, plus giving it to a control-heavy resource, at a 2/5 foundation with a +0H block with a control ability is a HUGE EFFING NO.
Right now the simplest and probably the best solution is that throws can block other throws. Tack on the same treatment "ranged" gets and then add in bit of text that says the zone has to match. That should help while not nerfing throws.
I've been playing UFS since Set 0 (PA). I'm very wary of power creep, and I've typically been one of the first to shout "unbalanced!" when a theme deck gets trampled by one using something that seems even slightly cheap. If it seems cheap, it probably is, in the sense of being undercosted.
I wanted all 3-check throws to be banned towards the end of Block 1 and throughout Block 2.
So please believe me when I say that this is the most balanced throws have EVER been in UFS.
They finally have the costing right. For a throw to do 5 or 6 damage, it needs 5 or 6 difficulty, and usually a 2 check. For it to do 3 or 4 damage, it could get a 3 check, and maybe even a 4 difficulty. That's fair. That's what we have right now.
Can throws be abused? Heck yes. And NOT just by King. Padma, Rashotep, Siegfried, and Bryan Fury all thrive using decks that are entirely, or almost entirely, throws.
BUT, throw decks, with all the damage boosting, are still balanced in this format. Astrid is obviously competitive despite using throws. I run Bryan Fury without throws off Fire/Evil, and he does very well. And all of the weakest characters (such as Christie, Cervantes, and Steve) are still competitive.
The game is finally about the push and pull of attack strings. The trick is getting the opponent to overextend, and leave an opening, so you can kill them. If you can't kill them, the trick is to push them into killing range without overextending yourself.
Throw decks are simpler decks to run. You usually don't have to worry about baiting. You just throw, throw, throw, pushing as much damage through as possible. But that doesn't mean they're necessarily more successful. A well-played Combo deck, or Weapon deck, or Stun deck, or even Kick deck, can get the opponent just as dead in the same amount of time.
Steve is mad good,.Pirate. He pushes some mean damage backed by Stuns and speed pumps, and if you don't have an answer his damage reduction is insane.
ARMed_PIrate said:
And all of the weakest characters (such as Christie, Cervantes, and Steve) are still competitive.
Christie isn't competitive.
I think the issue is the ease of use that was just hit on the head. Non-throws decks work but they are burst damage versues consistent damage of throw decks.
To back up what Pirate said (I'm part of his playgroup), for every throw deck any of us make, there's at least two decks that don't use throws at all. Sure throws are useful and make the kill seem easy if you get the right draw early, but right now nearly every single deck has the potential and the capability of killing on turn 2 or 3, with or without throws. Throws aren't so much of a problem if you consider the speed you can put into almost every other character just as easily.
What people need to consider if they're constantly being wrecked by throws is how do you make your deck faster or increase your survivability by another turn. The idea is that if you're constantly losing matches in this format you either need to rework your deck or you're just running on the wrong end of the probability curve, which happens quite a lot at times.
Do we need more defense against throws? It would be useful and would make braindead aggro decks less common. But that in itself does not mean throws are the end all totally busted tech, they're just more abusable than other mechanics (Paul's stun, Astrid's weapons) in most deck types.
I'ma gonna have to agree with Pirate in that these are the most balanced throws I've personally ever seen in this game (and I've been playing since Set 1).
Crushing Embrace, Croc Grasp, Dry Nile... They're nothing compared to Overhand Throw, Glass Slippers, Strike Heads, Hiza Geri, Ohichro Throw, and if you're Zangief, Spinning Pile Driver.
Go play a pure block 1 deck, up to FftF and Darkstalkers 1, then ***** about throws
Homme Chapeau said:
ARMed_PIrate said:
And all of the weakest characters (such as Christie, Cervantes, and Steve) are still competitive.
Christie isn't competitive.
B-Rad, you forgot the most egregious offender on your list, the immortal CHAIN THROW.
If anything ever gets near that card in power level again, I am officially DONE with this game. Eff that card...and I've won championships with it, I know how cracked it is.
Hell even now, most legacy games are FTK - Chain Throw, Kunai, Chain Throw + KFT + double Hammer = dead.
guitalex2008 said:
Homme Chapeau said:
ARMed_PIrate said:
And all of the weakest characters (such as Christie, Cervantes, and Steve) are still competitive.
Christie isn't competitive.
I guess we won't know until there's a big tournament and someone randomly runs Christie. o_O
I'm trying to crack my head in making her competitive. Surprisingly, there's too few 7HS characters that are, but her abilities aren't even synergic with the loop. You could say they are with Fruit Picker but even then.