Gladiator Boxing

-Dan

This article is to describe the tactic used at the NA Nationals for Armada used by myself, and by the champion. Prior to our Round 5 game I hadn’t seen or heard of anyone else using this tactic on Reddit or any of the forums, so I figured either it was new, or an old terrible idea. One of the IFF battle reports indicated diminishing returns on multiple gladiators, so I wasn’t convinced I had something yet. It seemed pretty good when I pushed my ships around on the table and on vassal, so I went with it. Now that it has served me so well, I’m putting it into the public consciousness so that players and participants in upcoming tournaments might have a better idea what to expect from a pack of gladiators.

The crux of this tactic is to make the enemy ships more predictable in their location, particularly the medium based ships. Medium based ships tend to hold a lot of points and be a key piece in the opposing fleet. (See Rebel Aces, Rhymer’s Circus, any Carrier based fleet etc) Removing this medium base ship is a big part of winning the game quickly and decisively. Victory star destroyers are pretty predictable with the slow speed and low yaw values, but an Assault Frigate at speed can be pretty tricky.

Opponents might not expect your gladiators to come screaming down at them at speed 3(4 with engine techs) and hit them before the supporting ships are even in range. Usually I wanted to box them in for a turn 2/3 attack, although sometimes a turn 3/4 attack might be better. Its up to you and the specifics of your game.

I had 2 gladiators in the fleet that hunted together. One gladiator maneuvers so that it is in front of the opposing ship, either blocking it from moving, or blocking where it is going to be moving in 2 turns. When you do that first move, it is important to set up a double arc shot for the next turn.

Your second gladiator comes in and ends on the side, also setting up a double arc shot.

On the next turn you’ve got 4 shots on the opposing ship, with Screed and Assault Concussion Missiles, that is probably a dead ship, especially factoring in the fact that one of those is Demolisher who just unleashed a volley on the way in.

Engaging Victory’s versus Assault Frigates is pretty similar. In general I tried to place Demolisher in the weaker arc. Your generic gladiator is going to eat a volley, but chances are it’ll survive between brace and redirect. If a Vic 2 or an Assault Frigate rolled enough accuracy symbols to block both, there aren’t enough hits left to cause you to worry. About the only thing that would give me pause is a Dominator Vic-1 with Expanded Armaments. In that instance, plan your approach to end just outside of close range, so that the black dice can’t get you yet.

This tactic can also be used against opposing groups of medium ships that are flying close together. Engine Tech gladiators will have an easier time getting a good approach angle than a non-upgraded one. During Round 3 of gencon, at table 3, my 2 gladiators ripped through a pair of Vic-2s over the course of 2 turns, my Vic’s damage contribution was a volley of anti-squadron dice that all missed either through scatter tokens or bad rolls.

Counters

This section is going to be a lot shorter since I didn’t worry too much about countering this tactic. At the moment I’ve got 3 ideas that don’t involve simply throwing more dice at longer range.

Set up defensively

Set up your ships so that if they can’t box in your bigger ship without paying the price. Set up overlapping arcs in front of your most valuable ship so that anything that goes there is going to be hit hard. Setting up your ships in a semi-tight formation will make it dangerous for a gladiator to land in between your ships with a double arc shot.

Going slow

This one is a long shot, and situational at best. It worked for me in one game, but your mileage may vary. This type of tactic has the gladiators coming in really hot and fast, so you set your ships up way back in the deployment zone, going at speed 1. It will take them 2 turns at speed 3 to enter close range under their best conditions. By then unless they’ve planned ahead and seen this coming, they’re going to have a hard time maintaining optimal attack vectors. Their limited options are breaking off the attack, staying in all your best arcs and colliding with you, or, in your best case scenario, they can’t slow down and fly off the board behind you.

Direction of travel

If your ship is traveling perpendicular to the direction the gladiators are, they’ll have a harder time getting in front to box you in. This counter is the least fleshed out for me right now.

Variations

This tactic also works when playing the objective intel sweep, either as first or second player. 2 turns is enough to get across the board and to start to box in the objective ship. This leaves your objective ship free to collect a mere 2 and grab the win. I used this during gen con to box in an opposing nebulon B objective ship, destroying it on turn 2 before it could acquire a second objective.

Engine tech on gladiators makes it easier to place your ships in the correct arc without granting double arc shots. A number of times I resolved a navigate command for the double bump and secured the kill that way.

Back in the core set only days I used a pair of Nebulon Bs to hunt Victory Star Destroyers in much the same way. They block the upcoming movement and then both have double arc shots. The double brace makes them very durable, and next turn you’ve nearly guaranteed 3 facedowns to the destroyer through collisions.

Conclusion

One gladiator to control movement, one gladiator to hit the side, one dead medium ship.

This tactic works best against capital ship light lists. When I only have to destroy 2 capital ships to end the game that makes my job a lot easier. Squadron/bomber heavy lists are NOT the answer to this. You might take out a ship, but the rest of your ships are going down hard.

There you have it admirals, a new tool for your tactics kit. Feel free to discuss, deliberate, and post your thoughts.

Thanks for the write up.

I also agree that squadrons, currently at least, isn't the answer to 4+ ship fleets.

I generally use blocking against flank ships if there are 3 I'm up against. It reduces counter fire to usually one other ship or 2 ships but one of the ships is usually a neb or a cr90 that is shooting my non blocking ship from its weaker side arc, so it's not as worrisome.

When playing rebels, most of my opponents bring 2 imp ships, a glad and a Vic with lots of squadrons. I'm usually able to bring down one or the other by going speed 1 and not needing to block. After they lose one, with 4 activations on my side, it's usually just 1 to 2 turns more and the game is over. Generally I lose 1 neb in the exchange.

Great stuff Dan

I would end up flying my whale conga-line perpendicular to you, which would make the approach much more difficult for you. It would be tough to get into that position without taking at least one round of broadsides. From playing the conga line, I know that ships getting out in front is a bad thing, so I avoid it. It's probably the best counter I can think of.

It still seems to me there is a lot of "jousting" in this game. Was that the case at GENCON?

My first two thoughts on counters.

1. One obvious counter (Shmitty beat me to it) is the broadside rebel list. You fly the AFIIs perpendicular-ish to the approach to overlap side arcs (probably with gunnery teams) against anyone screaming in like that, so getting the block is hard and you get torn up on the way in. A single CR90 to also step in and break up the glad's ideal position would be useful.
2. Not having any medium base ships... the rebels can conceivably field 6 CR90s, giving both an activation and maneuverability advantage. I do similar things to people with my CR90 list already (using a sacrificial lamb as a blocker to ensure crippling key ships), but there'd be no way to pin down speed 3-4 corvettes with this in that matchup.

Great stuff Dan

I would end up flying my whale conga-line perpendicular to you, which would make the approach much more difficult for you. It would be tough to get into that position without taking at least one round of broadsides. From playing the conga line, I know that ships getting out in front is a bad thing, so I avoid it. It's probably the best counter I can think of.

Thanks Bryan.

I suspected the conga-line was a good way to go. Talking to you at the tournament got that idea started in my mind. Coming across the board I'd have to race in front of you, but running perpendicular to me makes that really hard.

Glad to know I'm on the right track, since the first 2 counters just don't feel sufficient to me.

It still seems to me there is a lot of "jousting" in this game. Was that the case at GENCON?

Yes, at least for my games. The imperials I faced wanted to be in your face to begin with. The rebels I faced tended to be funneled toward my guns either through objectives or obstacles.

It still seems to me there is a lot of "jousting" in this game. Was that the case at GENCON?

it's not really jousting

if you have to make more than one pass, your life becomes incredibly difficult with a gladiator (even moreso with a VSD)

there is no k-turning in this game (ala x-wing) and even the CR-90 can't ech out a U-turn in a single turn.

imo rans got it right with his description of two GSDs "hunting" together. You're not passing an enemy, you're holding him down and ripping his throat out

closest you can get with jousting is an ideal case for the whale (pass to the enemy's side, broadsiding, and then hammer the crappier arcs)

Hmmmmmm I think I will do this for a Tactics video.

Very nice tactical breakdown. I've been considering similar uses for the Raiders once they are released, though potentially using 3 of them to do similar tactics.

Raiders might be too light to do this with. . . They have a brace but no redirect and their evades will be useless. You would need Gladiators to take the brunt of dice and hope it survives

Hm, fair point. I was considering that at their cost being only 2/3 of a Gladiator's, you could potentially afford 3 Raiders at the same cost. But, double-arcing the Gladiators gives you more dice on two of them than you would get with 3 of the Raiders, and with more durability.

I wonder how the MC30c's would work for this tactic.

I wonder how the MC30c's would work for this tactic.

Probably pretty well. Its probably close to a wash between higher shields/lower hull vs the lack of defense tokens.

Blue dice makes it easier to force damage through via accuracy results. That was the hardest part for the gladiators, the "I just rolled 7 damage but you're going to brace and I can't do a thing about it"

Thanks Bryan.

I suspected the conga-line was a good way to go. Talking to you at the tournament got that idea started in my mind. Coming across the board I'd have to race in front of you, but running perpendicular to me makes that really hard.

Glad to know I'm on the right track, since the first 2 counters just don't feel sufficient to me.

I've had no trouble dealing with single Gladiators using the conga line once I had gotten some practice. I've not had anyone try to box me in, but if you expected it would be coming I think it would be avoidable. The conga line does a nice job of concentrating your firepower and making it had to approach. The gladiator player would probably have better luck trying to attack the rear ship than trying to box in the lead.

I wonder how the MC30c's would work for this tactic.

Probably pretty well. Its probably close to a wash between higher shields/lower hull vs the lack of defense tokens.

Blue dice makes it easier to force damage through via accuracy results. That was the hardest part for the gladiators, the "I just rolled 7 damage but you're going to brace and I can't do a thing about it"

I had 2 gladiators in the fleet that hunted together. One gladiator maneuvers so that it is in front of the opposing ship, either blocking it from moving, or blocking where it is going to be moving in 2 turns. When you do that first move, it is important to set up a double arc shot for the next turn.

Very interesting technique. I haven't seen this "in the wild", but it does seem like the kind of tactic that you can counter if you know it's coming. One question though, what do you mean by "where it is going to be moving in 2 turns?". Is that for a super-slow moving ship? How do you keep the same spot in that situation?

I had 2 gladiators in the fleet that hunted together. One gladiator maneuvers so that it is in front of the opposing ship, either blocking it from moving, or blocking where it is going to be moving in 2 turns. When you do that first move, it is important to set up a double arc shot for the next turn.

Very interesting technique. I haven't seen this "in the wild", but it does seem like the kind of tactic that you can counter if you know it's coming. One question though, what do you mean by "where it is going to be moving in 2 turns?". Is that for a super-slow moving ship? How do you keep the same spot in that situation?

For that particular example I was thinking of the Vic 1 with all those black dice, so yes, a super slow predictable ship.

Keeping the spot is an activation order thing. In an ideal world you set your blocker at blue range, where the ship is headed. Later in the turn the Vic-1 activates. It hits you with some reds, but no blacks. Moves forward towards you, giving you your double arc shot on the next turn. At this point you're where the vic-1 was headed in 2 turns. To hold position you can either try for a collision or take your double shot and run. Its a situational thing.

Definitely something you can counter with some planning, but my opponents hadn't seen it before, so I thought I'd share it with you all. I expect gladiators to be all the rage after their showing at the north american nationals, so I'm putting the tactic in the public eye so that people can anticipate it.

I wonder how the MC30c's would work for this tactic.

If you're using the admiral who prevents your ships from dying until they've activated? Pretty well indeed.

I wonder how the MC30c's would work for this tactic.

Probably pretty well. Its probably close to a wash between higher shields/lower hull vs the lack of defense tokens.

Blue dice makes it easier to force damage through via accuracy results. That was the hardest part for the gladiators, the "I just rolled 7 damage but you're going to brace and I can't do a thing about it"

The lack of a brace won't let them do very well more than once and taking on anything heavier than a VSD will likely be suicide

and 4 damage is still ow

ACM don't care either (just MM, maybe), so I've never personally experienced (on the receiving end) GSDs being too dramatically slowed down by defense tokens. If they are, one could always invest in Intel Officer.

the insane damge is their reward for being so short ranged, really. the tokens keep any ship from being one; sometimes 2-shot but you're not up for long against even mildly sustained ACM barrages.

getting round defense tokens is more important, imo, for smaller numbers of longer ranged, less dramatic attacks ala the Fattie and the VSD, which can really be blunted by them. Cards such as Intel Officer and Dominator (VSD-2; much fun ) help get around that.

for the counter shrimp, I'm not sure if i'tll necessarily be as aggressive as the gladiators. Its 2 red (assuming on the scout frigate variant) on the side arcs + hefty evades and shields may make it just dandy as a strafing shrimp that doesn't like people getting too close to it. It won't have as fun of a time pouncing on people (front arc relatively weak; also what determines the direction of its movement), and it has buddies with similar arc distribution (fattie, mon cal) that could really do for some anti-GSD tech

I love your graphics that you display. Are those ship images something you designed or can you find them online somewhere. I am putting together a map based campaign and I am looking for top down graphics of Armada ships to make unit counters with.

So let's see against an ISD 1 the damage to a MC30 is likely 2 red dice, 1 blue dice and 3 black so 6 damage total, with Mon Mothma that is likely still 5 damage after the evade and 3 damage total.

I dismiss my notion, a MC30 can tank but 2 shots at best but by then an use should be dead.

I love your graphics that you display. Are those ship images something you designed or can you find them online somewhere. I am putting together a map based campaign and I am looking for top down graphics of Armada ships to make unit counters with.

My opponent did a similar tactic to counter my Glads. 1slow move, in a line with Nebs on the side, brutally shooting at range. The the Paragon moving in fast, did a double blast, and took my Glad to 1 hp. Then he ram killed it.

He ram killed my ships at least twice. ><

So, how would you deal with that?

My opponent did a similar tactic to counter my Glads. 1slow move, in a line with Nebs on the side, brutally shooting at range. The the Paragon moving in fast, did a double blast, and took my Glad to 1 hp. Then he ram killed it.

He ram killed my ships at least twice. ><

So, how would you deal with that?

Flip the table?

Just did a set of test rolls and 9 damage total seems to be a great roll which is 8 damage after a evade reroll and 4 damage after the redirect.

MC30's will make XI7 Turbolasers better than they already are

could get real ugly with xi7 and the assault torpedo card-- depending on what it's effect is.

I'm also curious what heavy turbo lasers do since I see a brace token reference on the card.