I don't think the Falcon's crew is customary for a ship of it's type. Why would you bother buying a ship like that if you didn't have the people to crew half of it's systems?

I think the Ghost in Rebels is probably a much better representation of the size of crew a ship like that would normally have.

I don't know much about the Ghost, but a typical stock YT-1300 only requires a crew of one, but can be operated easier with a crew of 2, and comes equipped with a single standard laser cannon, and those on a turret are not typically operated from a seat located at the gun itself, like on the Falcon. The Falcons turrets with the gunners stations located within the turret are a heavy ship modification. But even the Falcons turrets can be fixed to fire forward and the ship piloted easily by a single crewman.

I don't know much about the Ghost, but a typical stock YT-1300 only requires a crew of one, but can be operated easier with a crew of 2, and comes equipped with a single standard laser cannon, and those on a turret are not typically operated from a seat located at the gun itself, like on the Falcon. The Falcons turrets with the gunners stations located within the turret are a heavy ship modification. But even the Falcons turrets can be fixed to fire forward and the ship piloted easily by a single crewman.

Doesn't that undermine your previous point then?

If one person can fly the Falcon, and shoot both turrets forward, then why does it still only get to fire one of them?

They should not have given the HWK anycattack at all and made it cheaper. Because as it is it has to take a turret anyway but pays for a completely useless primary attack.

ForceM, on 05 Aug 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

They should not have given the HWK anycattack at all and made it cheaper. Because as it is it has to take a turret anyway but pays for a completely useless primary attack.

YEP

I just house rule HWKs as 4 points cheaper in casual play at my table in my house. Still don't get used that much but it helps.

1 die is effectively zero but prevents the situation where it's impossible to win.

Do you think we will ever see another ship with 1 Attack die? I know FFG has said something about regretting making the HWK have only 1 attack die... but do you think that could work for a ship in the future?

If you had to design a ship, and the only rule was that it had to have an attack value of 1, how woudl you approach it?

Each ship with ATT 1 may use.

During combat all ships declaring Simultaneous Attack declare the same enemy ship as their target and roll ALL their attack dice as one Simultaneous Attack! The defender only rolls defense dice against a single attack no matter how many enemy ships are attacking. No further attacks may be performed by the ships declaring Simultaneous Attack.

Scenario: Four 1 att die ships are in Range 1 of an enemy ship and all four declare Simultaneous Attack. Each has 1 die for primary weapon and 1 for range 1 bonus!!! This is 8 attack dice in one strike!! It could be devastating, but its throwing everything at one ship all at once!

Four ships would be about max, I would think. But if there was a swarm of 7-8 of these two to three attacks per turn would be feasible. I would think a SA at range three could be used on approach at ranges 2-3 throwing 7-8 dice at one ship hoping for an early kill!

What do you think? Thoughts on cleaning it up/fleshing it out?

Edited as Simultaneous seemed better than Coordinated

Do you think we will ever see another ship with 1 Attack die? I know FFG has said something about regretting making the HWK have only 1 attack die... but do you think that could work for a ship in the future?

If you had to design a ship, and the only rule was that it had to have an attack value of 1, how woudl you approach it?

I would allow a sad little one attack ship to fire that one attack once for each level of pilot skill. Only skill 12 pilots would fly the **** thing by the by.

I don't know much about the Ghost, but a typical stock YT-1300 only requires a crew of one, but can be operated easier with a crew of 2, and comes equipped with a single standard laser cannon, and those on a turret are not typically operated from a seat located at the gun itself, like on the Falcon. The Falcons turrets with the gunners stations located within the turret are a heavy ship modification. But even the Falcons turrets can be fixed to fire forward and the ship piloted easily by a single crewman.

Doesn't that undermine your previous point then?

If one person can fly the Falcon, and shoot both turrets forward, then why does it still only get to fire one of them?

I don't know much about the Ghost, but a typical stock YT-1300 only requires a crew of one, but can be operated easier with a crew of 2, and comes equipped with a single standard laser cannon, and those on a turret are not typically operated from a seat located at the gun itself, like on the Falcon. The Falcons turrets with the gunners stations located within the turret are a heavy ship modification. But even the Falcons turrets can be fixed to fire forward and the ship piloted easily by a single crewman.

Doesn't that undermine your previous point then?

If one person can fly the Falcon, and shoot both turrets forward, then why does it still only get to fire one of them?

Not really. If you take the Han, Lando, or Chewy ship cards, then it's assumed they are in the Falcon which has an attack value of 3, as opposed to the attack value of 2 with the Outer Rim Smugglers standard equipped YT-1300. Pretty sure thats meant to represent the Falcons dual quad laser cannons as opposed to the stock standard laser cannon. And if you had only one pilot and 2 turrets, how could you fire twice with 2 different turrets even if you could control both from the same seat? You can only look in one direction at a time. But thats all hypothetical. I think an attack value of 2 for a stock YT-1300 is fair. I think that the Falcons attack of 3 justifiably represents it's upgraded weaponry. And I also think that if you take the Gunner crew card, it's ability to attack again if your first attack misses is a fair representation of having either a skilled gunner, or multiple gunners, on board. Now if the YT-1300 was an expensive, multi turreted, Imperial vessel with a fully trained compliment of crew, I would think it fair to have 2 attacks per round. I think the only reason they don't do it with certain ships (like the Decimator or a fully crewed Falcon) is because it would make the ships too expensive point wise, even though it would fit more thematically. I think that if they release the Skipray however, they should make an exception and design it so it can be played as a single ship build. A real ass kicker!

There is plenty of design space with single attack ships but it seems simpler to just bump the single ship that has it or never do it again and focus on other aspects of the game. A hwk only mod that traded it's 1 att for 3pts off a turret for 0 cost would see play. A title that gave it 2 attack probably would too and those seem pretty obvious.

Since those seem pretty basic and obvious I think FFG will do BETTER.

Military Retrofit, modification, hwk only, 2pt:

You may reduce your primary attack value by 1. If you equip a turret, reduce it's squad point cost by 4 (minimum 0). Your hull value increases by 1.

Spice runner becomes:

0/2/5/1

360 ion platform

19pts

I think I'm ok with that.

Cheapest thing would be blaster version at 18. You'd also be more likely to crew it up with something fun with the extra hp. What's the most broken thing you could do with it? Would 5 ion turrets or blaster turret hwks break the game?

They should not have given the HWK anycattack at all and made it cheaper. Because as it is it has to take a turret anyway but pays for a completely useless primary attack.

I wonder if a turret upgrade card in the future that is strength 2, range 2, but has the range increased to 3 and is treated as a primary weapon if fired from the forward arc, would be a good fix for the HWK. Thematically it would fit, because turrets can be locked in the forward direction, and in the Moldy Crows case, it would represent the HWK using it's 4 dual laser cannons. Or a re-release of the HWK with an alternative paint job and some new different ship cards and another Moldy Crow title card would be nice. Wouldn't be the first time for a specific ship type to have multi title cards to choose from, or ship cards with different stats.

it's assumed they are in the Falcon which has an attack value of 3, as opposed to the attack value of 2 with the Outer Rim Smugglers standard equipped YT-1300. Pretty sure thats meant to represent the Falcons dual quad laser cannons as opposed to the stock standard laser cannon.

If so, then it's a pretty piss-poor representation if the YT-1300's cannon is a 2, while the Falcon's 8 cannons are a 3...

it's assumed they are in the Falcon which has an attack value of 3, as opposed to the attack value of 2 with the Outer Rim Smugglers standard equipped YT-1300. Pretty sure thats meant to represent the Falcons dual quad laser cannons as opposed to the stock standard laser cannon.

If so, then it's a pretty piss-poor representation if the YT-1300's cannon is a 2, while the Falcon's 8 cannons are a 3...

Only so much room for variance. 1 attack for a Stock YT-1300 would seem a little to low, and a turreted attack 4 on the Falcon would be a little to powerful for game purposes, so I would think. So, what can you do? Considering what there is to work with being limited by game mechanics, I think it's a pretty good representation.