My opponent plays "The Things I Do For Love" targetting my tyrion (he pays 5 gold for the event). COST X; Text: challenges action: kneel your faction card to choose a character with printed cost X or lower controlled by an opponent and return it to its owner's hand

I have "Hand's Judgment" in hand (COST X; text: interrupt: when the effects of an opponent's event would initiate, cancel those effects. X is that event's printed cost ).

Do I have to pay 0 because the printed cost X of "the things I do for love" is considered zero, or do I have to pay 5 because my opponent paid 5 gold?

you also pay 5, the cost of the event in play.

I follow your logic: X ^THJ = X ^TTIDFL , and X ^TTIDFL =5, Therefore by the Transitive Property X ^THJ =5, but I wasn't able to find the specific reference in the rulebook.

Would this be something we'd want in the first run of the FAQ?

To cancel events that cost X with The Hand's Judgement, you only pay 0.

The letter “X”
Unless specified by a card ability or granted player choice, the letter X is always equal to 0. For costs involving the letter X, the value of X is defined by card ability or player choice, after which the amount paid may be modified by effects without altering the value of X.

The Hand's Judgement says

Interrupt: When the effects of an opponent's event would initiate, cancel those effects. X is that event's printed cost.

Since X is the printed cost, it's going to be equal to 0. A printed value can never be changed because it's the physical ink on the card. No matter what X was determined by a card effect, it's printed value can never change which is why the printed value of X is always equal to 0. The Hand's Judgement looks for the printed cost, not the calculated or determined cost.

Here is a reference to another forum post with additional explanation and discussion:

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27454-cancelling-hands-judgement-with-hands-judgement/

What it comes down to is this:

Whenever you reference the "printed cost" of something, you only look at the ink on the card; you do not include anything that modifies the value that started with that ink.

For example, if someone plays a 5-cost event while Paxter Redwyne is out - and thus only pays 4 for the event - the "printed cost" of the event is still 5.

Same thing when the ink on the card says "X." Any text defining X is modifying the printed value, and therefore cannot be considered when determining the "printed cost" of the event Hand's Judgment is trying to cancel. So you refer to the rules to define X - which says it is 0.

You cannot refer to the text on "Things I Do For Love" to modify and define it's printed X while triggering "Hand's Judgment." Only text on Hand's Judgment matters for defining a printed X at that point.

Well, that's awesome =) I didn't have much time to fully peruse the rulebook for this question, but "The Letter X" section cleared it right up.

ok, thank you. I was pretty sure it was 0, but I need a confirmation.

I except ktom's answer and this is not a dispute of rules but the printed cost, in my mind, is not 0. It is X where X is a number value. Therefore the printed cost is that number value. Is it not an assumption that X is equal to 0 except when it is not?

The assumption is that X is equal to 0 except when specifically defined to be something else.

The "defined as something else" from the text of "Things I Do For Love" applies to the event's cost-to-play, not to its printed cost. It doesn't change the ink on the card. Therefore, there is nothing defining the characteristic of "printed cost" as something else.

Since there is nothing specifically defining the printed "X" in the cost of the event - only the event's effective cost - you are left with X, which defaults to 0 if a numerical value is needed.

If it said "X is the cost" instead of "X is the printed cost", then you'd look at what was paid to play the event.

I've had a lengthy discussion on CardgameDB about the cost to cancel "The Things I Do for Love" with "The Hand's Judgement", without any satisfying resolution.

The Things I Do for Love:

(Cost X event) "Challenges Action: Kneel your faction card to choose a character with printed cost X or lower controlled by an opponent, and return it to its owners hand."

The Hand's Judgement:

(Cost X event)"Interrupt: When the effects of an opponents event would initiate, cancel those effects. X is that event's printed cost."

Several CardgameDB members have claimed that when THJ is used to cancel TTIDfL, the cost is zero. They claim that since the cost of THJ is the printed cost X, the value is zero.

This does not sit well with me as it is klunky, counter intuitive, and does not appear to fit with the rules as they are written. I'd like to make the case that the cost of THJ should be the value of X for TTIDfL (ie the cost of TTIDFL before any modifiers were applied).

Printed

"The word 'printed' refers to the text, characteristic, icon, or value that is physically printed on the card"

The letter X

"For costs involving the letter X, the value of X is defined by card ability or player choice, after which the amount paid may be modified by effects without altering the value of X"

Putting these two direct rules quotes together we end up with:

Printed Cost X:

What is physically printed as the cost of the card is the variable X. "For costs involving the letter X, the value of X is defined by card ability or player choice".

The rules do not state that a printed value cannot reference another card ability or player choice. What is physically printed is a reference to another value (regardless of how you define X).

Therefore, a printed cost of X refers to the printed variable X that is "defined by player choice"

There may be circumstances in which a card with cost X cannot be "defined by card ability or player choice" (ex. when a card has not been played). Only in such a case is X defined as zero. ("Unless specified by a card ability or granted player choice, the letter X is always equal to 0"). However, this clearly implies that card abilities and player choice supersede the null value of X whenever present.

The rules also implicitly refer to "the value of X" as "the amount paid" before the effect of modifiers. ("the amount paid may be modified by effects without altering the value of X").

Aside from the technical rule details, I believe that this interpretation of "printed cost X" is more in line with the"spirit of the game" and would help keep the rules as intuitive as possible, both of which make the game more accessible for new players. The ability to cancel an event that can cost up to 7 gold (The Things I Do for Love) with a zero cost event (The Hand's Judgement) is counter intuitive, and goes against the balancing methods built into each of these cards. I think the result would be detrimental to the game and will turn new players off to the "old boys club" full of "secret rules" that veterans use to push down the new players

FFG doesn't answer questions posed on the forums and rarely, if ever, participates in the discussions.

This is the link to send rules questions directly to them, through their customer service line.