Ok, haven't done a dedicated thread like this in some time. It's not quite as fun as people divvying things up and doing things like "Kennon's Thoughts on ITE Lannister" or "Staglord's Thoughts on 5KE Baratheon" or what have you, but alas, this is all we've got. So, without further ado:

Jeyne Pool= C

Hmm... another zero cost character for Stark isn't horrible and the intrigue icon is nice if you're running any of their strength boosting effects. I'm not certain how great her ability is going to be though unless you're really facing some severe problems brought on by Varys or King's Landing Assassin. I doubt I would want to cancel something like Goldcloaks very often.

Cannot Be Bribed, Cannot Be Bought= B+

Pretty much just a silver bullet here, and one aimed squarely at my favorite house to play. Is that a horrible thing though? No, not so much at the moment. I think other houses have some great builds available and this might be just the thing to give them the boost they need to make a swing more possible against kneel without going too far the opposite direction of totally hampering kneel.

Qyburn= A-

Wow, what an interesting effect that doesn't have to do with kneeling something. Thank goodness! I like to see some variety brought to Lannister. Also, rather Nedly. Of course, the coolest thing, arguably is the deadly. For the generally slow Lannisters, the unopposed power generally brought on by deadly challenges can be a large boon. Extra props for that deadly coming attached to a power icon.

Littlefinger= A+

A very powerful card for both houses. Stark hugely benefits from the intgrigue icon and Lannister from the power, while the non-kneeling attack is huge for anyone. I expect this guy to pretty commonly cost 3 gold, which puts him ahead of the curve against similar characters like CS Jaime Lannister.

Death By Payne= B+

What a great title. It rather makes me think of The Princess Bride. The effect is powerful, though I'm sure I'll find myself wishing for a cancel instead of a kill in many situations. Still, I'll likely give this a try, though I'm uncertain how many nobles I'll have sitting around waiting to use this when I would rather do things like attack with KLE Cersei.

Knight of Flowers= B+

More not quite anti-shadows tech for Baratheon which is a solid addition to their character base for rush just on the basis of cost and renown alone. i've seen the KLE Robert able to use his ability fairly well, so perhaps the KoF will not be kneeling often as well, but as the block goes on, I only see Shadows usage going up.

Small Council Chamber= B+

Hmm.... there aren't as many Small Council events around as there used to be, or I would instantly want to build around this. I'd have to look around a little further to really see what's available to me, but the thought of recycling Condemned by the Council over and over already has me interested.

Ancient Mariner= C

Rather vanilla character these days. Probably great for flops, but in general, I think there are many other characters I would probably choose instead.

Shore Leave= D-

I'm still trying to figure out what the most effective way to use this is. Stand your just knelt character to have the chance at Dominance? Keep your opponent from making multiple challenges with one character? Either way, it still doesn't sound great.

King's Landing Assassin= A-

Despite what others might be saying, I think this is a great addition to the Targaryen arsenal. They've been really needing a little variety in their burn effects so they don't become accidently hamstrung and this combos well with Flame Kissed and the ever popular Forever Burning. With this much burn available, I think I might be a little worried to face them.

Shadow Prophet= D+

Just kind of a bleh ability most of the time, I think. In general, I don't worry unduly about finding out what a single card in shadows is, just like I don't worry about finding out what one card in my opponent's hand is. Maybe with more Asshai synergy I might be more forgiving.

Visenya's Hill= D

Hmmm... this hills seem to have an interesting reverse recursion sort of feel going for them. I like the idea in general to show the flipside of the way that Targaryen usually has the best recursion, but I just don't see this ability being a gamebreaker unless your opponent really enjoys playing duplicates of unique characters.

Aegon's Legacy= B

Sure, the variable is something that you only have limited control over and having several cards in Shadows can be pretty resource intensive. Still, it's interesting to me that such a potentially scalable burn card is a freebie itself. I mean, come on, you were probably going to play those cards in Shadows anyway, why not get a little extra kick for it?

Dornish Diplomat= ??

Ah, more of those two edged blades. It could be a huge ally maker in Melee, or it might make you into a target by the people you don't help with it. Either way, I think I'd really have to play with it to get much more of a feel for how it impacts a game.

The Broken Spear= B-

I like versatility and I like icon removal, so while the card isn't spectacular, it's certain playable.

Backroom Bribery= D

I'm just not seeing spectacular use here. Sure, there might be an extra ability or two that you could trigger with that stolen gold, or take Dominance from an opponent, but wouldn't you rather just have the gold you spent to put this in Shadows?

Varys= A

Ally hate! Huzzah! Haven't we been begging for this sort of thing to make it back into the game? Nedly and useful- I like it.

Ser Osmund Kettleblack= B-

Well, it's good to have more Kingsguard and he gets props for being a neutral with the War crest, plus his ability can make the defensively based Kingsguard decks a bit more tricky when you're trying to do combat math against them.

King's Landing= B

Wow, it's conditional and expensive, but danged if it can't be a superb card drawing engine for a Shadows based deck. Heck, it's still an awfully strong one just based on how many cards your opponents are likely bringing out of Shadows. Still at that cost, I wish it had a little bit of protection.

City of Spies= C+

Decent stats for a City plot, and it's handy to have in the cycle for pumping up others, but I'm not convinced that discarding one card out of a handful from their deck before they've drawn it is really very useful at all.

Hmm so Targ has this available for burn:

Forever Burning

Flame-Kissed

Drogon

Dragon Skull

Aegon's Legacy

King's Landing Assasin

Flame-Pitch Tower

Fury of the Dragon

.... that's a lot of burn.

Kennon said:

Varys's 'out of shadows' ability is a passive, so she's not even canceling that one if you wanted her to, just FYI.

Kennon said:

I think this card is way better than a D-. It´s like you said you could either:

• stand a charachter to win dominance.
• exclude an oponnents charahcters from defending/ attacking in a challenge.
• use a "challenge: kneel charachter to do xy" or "any phase: kneel charachter to do xy" effect twice, e.g. defend with Osmund Kettleblack, than stand him with shore leave and use it´s own ability to boost his strength. Or use Kettleblacks effect twice to boost the strength of another kingsguard.

There´s really a lot of potential for this card.

How can I exclude a character to defend with 'Shore Leave'?

If I stand a char after he has been declared as attacker/defender I think he counts toward challenge result also if he has been stood... am I wrong? Am I missing something? thx

Gualdo said:

Probably he thinks about cards like standing Renly or new Robert. Or using "Bound by duty".

Gualdo said:

You are correct as far as that one challenge goes, but that character will not be participating in any other challenges.

Best use I can think for Shore Leave off the top of my head is King Balon's Host. Rather than choosing whether to attack/defend with him or leave him standing for his "no keywords" effect, I can do both. It also seems like pretty decent tech against a Bara Vigilant deck.

In the Legacy pool, I could see using it with The Knight to stand and then get around the "cannot declare" restriction with the jumping ability (maybe there's a combo with Greatjon OOH in LCG?).

I think Old Ben has about the best idea so far about being able to use a character ability a second time, but I'm still not sure how effective that will be either. I'll have to take a look at what the options are there. In Legacy, Ghost of High Heart at least....

Alanys Greyjoy

bloodycelt said:

I can see that. If it was Balon's Host I cared about, Distinct Mastery is a better I choice I say.

LetsGoRed said:

But I'm using my Distinct Masteries to keep Wintertime Marauders on their feet.

BTW: how has this "stand a character to get another use out of their ability" line of reasoning not led to Maester Wendamyr yet? Especially of Valar was the plot?

I suppose I just couldn't help looking for more offensive options.

Kennon said:

Hmm. Happens to the best of us.

Totally off topic, but I have noticed that there is a real tendency in the community-at-large to base first evaluations on offense, and usually limit that to the military challenge.

Another use would be to stand a character with attached 'Seafar Bow' and reuse its ability.

Timing question:

I have my char with the bow kneeled. My opponent declares attackers against me. I declare defenders. After Declering defenders I use the event, stand the char with the bow and use its ability.

Can I do this after having declare defenders or I can make it only before declaring defenders? (after my opponent declared attacker)

thx

ktom said:

Possibly an effect of the game being so offensively based in design.