Ninja'd

Hatting is correct.

It works just the same on Vader with Brutality. You can't play Single Purpose on Vader to attack 2 targets twice (4 targets).

You are probably right, but would you mind explaining why this is so?

Why does this command card not trump the standard rule if it includes an attack in the special action?

Absolutely. This is the rule taken directly from pg 6 of the RRG under "Special Situations Regarding Attacks":

"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”)."

So, when using "Single Purpose", you are not able to play Leia's "Battlefield Leadership" special ability twice, because you cannot attack with Leia twice. If the ability specifically stated that you can attack more than once (like "Assault") only then you can break the one attack per activation rule.

Ok great, thank you!

Now would you mind explaining to me why this rule doesn't apply:

RRG page 2:

Golden rules

Card abilities can override the rules listed in this guide.

Why is this command card not overriding the rule you quoted on page 6?

This rule does not apply because the card ability is not overriding the one attack per activation rule at all.

Assault, however, does:

"Assault - You may perform multiple attacks."

Since Leia's ability does not override the one attack per activation rule, she is forced to follow the one attack per activation rule. If Leia had Assault, she could most definitely use her ability twice. But she does not.

I see... So the card, even though it gives the ability to perform a special action twice, it doesn't give an override to all the items within that special activation. Is that the argument?

Pretty much. It's the same exact rule why you can't first take an attack action, and then use a special ability that allows you to attack. Just because the special action says to make an attack, you already made your one attack in your first action, so you are unable to use that special ability to attack again.

Ok, I appreciate your take on it.

Leia making an attack is a requirement for the "then" effect to happen.

I don't think that's implied. There might be an unwritten rule that all elements of an ability (aside from if's etc) must be completed for it to be used which would definitely stop this.

The card overrides one core rule, which is the rule that you can't use the same special action twice.

It doesn't say it overrides anything else, and therefore doesn't override the limitation on one attack during activation.

So it needs to specify each core rule it overrides even if what is being overridden is contained within a single item?

Yes. That's usually what needs to happen. Rules are in effect until overridden by card text specifically. Single Purpose only mentions Special Actions, not attacks.

I wrote FFG on this issue and I have received a response. Below is my email to them and below that is their response.

Rules Question:
Skirmish command card question: single purpose: Use at the start of your activation. You may use the same special action up to twice during this activation. My understanding of cards in the game is that when they conflict with standard rules, card abilities take precedence. If a special action contains an attack, can that special action be taken twice in a single activation? Does the command card above, which allows for the same special action twice, trump the standard rules if that special action includes an attack? thanks!

So, at this point, we don't really know the definitive answer as of yet. I do appreciate everyone's input on this issue so far!

My take is that anything in the special action is allowed to be done twice since that's what the card says. I take it (the card) at face value (get to do special action twice) and refer back to the golden rule on page 2 of the RRG (also at face value) -- cards override rules. Nothing on the card or in the RRG says that card text in the golden rule of overriding RRG's rules should only apply to 1 aspect. So I'll be playing it that way until an official ruling comes back saying otherwise. When I hear back from FFG, I'll post here!

Thanks again to all who have weighed in!

I wrote FFG on this issue and I have received a response. Below is my email to them and below that is their response.

Rules Question:

Skirmish command card question: single purpose: Use at the start of your activation. You may use the same special action up to twice during this activation. My understanding of cards in the game is that when they conflict with standard rules, card abilities take precedence. If a special action contains an attack, can that special action be taken twice in a single activation? Does the command card above, which allows for the same special action twice, trump the standard rules if that special action includes an attack? thanks!

Hi Greg,

Unfortunately, we do not answer rules questions about products immediately after release. We will be collecting rules questions for a period of 30 days to ensure clear and consistent rulings, at which point we will get back to you.

Thanks!

Paul Winchester

Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

So, at this point, we don't really know the definitive answer as of yet. I do appreciate everyone's input on this issue so far!

My take is that anything in the special action is allowed to be done twice since that's what the card says. I take it (the card) at face value (get to do special action twice) and refer back to the golden rule on page 2 of the RRG (also at face value) -- cards override rules. Nothing on the card or in the RRG says that card text in the golden rule of overriding RRG's rules should only apply to 1 aspect. So I'll be playing it that way until an official ruling comes back saying otherwise. When I hear back from FFG, I'll post here!

Thanks again to all who have weighed in!

By your rationale - you think using Single Purpose on Vader, and used Brutality twice to attack 4 times in one activation is a perfectly legal move?

There is one rule that says that you can't perform more than one action that contains an attack during one activation.

There is another rule that says that you can't perform one specific special action not more than once per activation.

Two totally different things.

The first rule is overridden by "Assault", the second rule is overridden by "Single Purpose".

If you want to perform a specific special action that contains an attack twice in one activation, then you need Assault and Single Purpose.

That's not rocket science, just reading the rules correctly ...

There is one rule that says that you can't perform more than one action that contains an attack during one activation.

I quoted the rule you're talking about in the OP; it doesn't say that.

"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”)."

"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”)."

This can just as easily read as stopping the attack but not the rest of the action.

Actually, it explicitly says that you cannot use both actions to attack, or special actions that involve an attack.

The second use of Leia's ability would be an action that causes an attack, which is not allowed, therefore she couldn't use her ability a second time anyway.

Edit: Unless you play Assault and Single Purpose as DerBaer suggested.

"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”)."

This can just as easily read as stopping the attack but not the rest of the action.

There is no word here about stripping attack.

There are words about using actions. So You can only use 1 action to attack. And action involving attack is considered attack. So You cannot use it twice unless You have a rule that let You attack twice.

It also works the other way, so if Vader would get Assault, he could attack twice, but only one brutality.

"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”)."

This can just as easily read as stopping the attack but not the rest of the action.

And action involving attack is considered attack.

I haven't seen anything saying this. I've just asked for a ruling on a similar question about Gaarkhan attacking and then charging (but not attacking) in skirmish if he's not damaged which, if he can't it absolutely confirms this. If he can it could still go either way because charge involves may.

"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”)."

This can just as easily read as stopping the attack but not the rest of the action.

And action involving attack is considered attack.

I haven't seen anything saying this. I've just asked for a ruling on a similar question about Gaarkhan attacking and then charging (but not attacking) in skirmish if he's not damaged which, if he can't it absolutely confirms this. If he can it could still go either way because charge involves may.

I feel like Gaarkhan isn't allowed to do this since the rule that DerBaer cited above specifically cites the Nexu's "Pounce" which has almost identical wording to Gaarkhan's "Charge."

The rule mentions any action that "involves" an attack. It seems like whether you perform the attack or not you cannot use the action if you have already attacked in that activation.

The rule mentions any action that "involves" an attack. It seems like whether you perform the attack or not you cannot use the action if you have already attacked in that activation.

100% correct!

In Addition, read page 6 of the Learn to Play-Book, left side: IMPORTANT: Heroes are the only figures that can use both of their actions to perform attacks during the same activation. If a Special Action involves one or more attacks, this counts as the figure using an attack.

The rule mentions any action that "involves" an attack. It seems like whether you perform the attack or not you cannot use the action if you have already attacked in that activation.

100% correct!

In Addition, read page 6 of the Learn to Play-Book, left side: IMPORTANT: Heroes are the only figures that can use both of their actions to perform attacks during the same activation. If a Special Action involves one or more attacks, this counts as the figure using an attack.

Ok, thank you for (finally) citing that rather than asserting it.

that rule was sited as the first response to your question

that rule was sited as the first response to your question

The important part is that the special action counts as an attack. The fact that the rrg statements don't make this explicit (I can spell out the logic of my reading if you like) is the reason I started this in the first place.

The RRG says

A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform

an attack per activation.

This does not technically prevent the use of a special action that causes the figure to perform an attack. In light of this do you think it reasonable to allow Leia to give an ally multiple attacks through single purpose and Battlefield Leadership. The "same target" clause can kind of be subverted through logic if you say that "the same target" is close enough to "not different targets." Even if you don't buy that logic do you think it should follow in general?

Interested to hear your thoughts.

you forgot to check attacks page 6 rules reference

Special situations regarding attacks

• Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation.

This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”).

-- If an ability allows a figure to perform an attack outside of its activation, this attack does not count toward the limit of one attack per activation.

so the lines.... Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation.

This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”).

which is directly quoted from the rules reference guide, with the bullet point in fullness, with a page number,

isn't explicit in saying special actions with attacks in them count as attacks and if you are a deployment card you can only use one of your actions as an attack

yes i would like you to spell out your logic so i can understand and will be able to respond clearer in future so it doesn't require 3 pages to come back to the first responce

I read it as: deployment cards cannot use more than one action to attack per activation, even if they use special actions that involve performing one or more attacks. The 'this' in the second bold sentence can apply either to the word attack (as was intended) or the entire sentence (as I read it). Again I want to re-iterate that I come from a background in Dominion where partially completed actions are part of the norm and that's part of the reason this reading comes more naturally to me.

ok so your initial reading of the rules where influenced by applying conventions and rules from a different game,

you should try not to let other games influence you while reading a games rules, or as Master Yoda would say unlearn what you have learned

though i was surprised they hadn't included a use of language conventions section in any of the three books, learn to play, rules reference or skirmish (more so in the skirmish or rules reference), due to the competitive play nature of the of skirmish as they have in their other games that are competitive play

Update: My response to asking about Garkhan was the following:

Yes, Gaarkhan can still use “Charge,” even though he cannot perform the attack portion of it because “Charge” says that he “may perform an attack.” So, he can still trigger the special action and then choose not to use the illegal portion.

This wouldn't apply to Leia as she doesn't use may but for Garkhan (and presumably Nexu) it works.

I would agree with the Gaarkhan and Nexu ruling, as the use of "May" implies a choice. Leia does not have this wording.

It's an action that includes an attack. Therefore, in my opinion this wouldn't be allowed ...

For what reason would you want to charge or pounce, if you can't attack? Is there any real use for this?