Whiskers...

By adjogi, in Talisman Rules Questions

A little debate perhaps you'd like to chime in on. :)

From the City Expansion the Pet Whiskers states:

"Whenever you encounter a space with instructions to draw 1 or more Adventure Cards, you may draw 1 extra Adventure card and place it in that space".

Does the person drawing the extra card get to encounter the card, or does he (or she) simply place it in his (or her) space for the next lucky (or unlucky) character to encounter?

On topic:

Ok, so... imagine a world! A world where a player lands on a space that instructs that very player to draw 2 cards. Now let's say that the 1st card is an event that instructs the player to "burn all the cards on this space then burn 3 cards from the top of the Adventure Deck" and the 2nd card that was drawn is an object. My question to you all is this. Would the object that was drawn but not encountered yet be burned as though it were "on this space"??

In Talisman you always encounter the cards on the space, not cards floating in the air or waiting in a limbo between worlds.

When instructed to draw 2 cards like in your example, you check for cards already faceup on the space and draw only enough cards to bring the total number of cards on the space to 2. Then you encounter all of the cards, which are not trapped in the twilight zone between life and death but are actually ON the space, even though you probably don't have placed them there but are holding them in your hands. If the first card says to burn or discard other cards on the space, you burn/discard the other card you didn't encounter, because it's actually on the space.

On topic:

Ok, so... imagine a world! A world where a player lands on a space that instructs that very player to draw 2 cards. Now let's say that the 1st card is an event that instructs the player to "burn all the cards on this space then burn 3 cards from the top of the Adventure Deck" and the 2nd card that was drawn is an object. My question to you all is this. Would the object that was drawn but not encountered yet be burned as though it were "on this space"??

In Talisman you always encounter the cards on the space, not cards floating in the air or waiting in a limbo between worlds.

When instructed to draw 2 cards like in your example, you check for cards already faceup on the space and draw only enough cards to bring the total number of cards on the space to 2. Then you encounter all of the cards, which are not trapped in the twilight zone between life and death but are actually ON the space, even though you probably don't have placed them there but are holding them in your hands. If the first card says to burn or discard other cards on the space, you burn/discard the other card you didn't encounter, because it's actually on the space.

I'll just leave this here, even though I think it is wrong. The rules clearly state that all cards are placed faceup on the space before they are encountered. But this FAQ entry basically states the opposite.

Earthquake

Q: If a character draws the Earthquake along with another Adventure Card, is the other card also affected by the Earthquake?

A: No. The Earthquake only affects cards which are already faceup on the board when it is drawn.

Funny thing I like to call the "Prophetess paradox": many decks (e.g. Dragon, Nether, Bridge) are not considered "Adventure Cards" until they are faceup on the board. But, if they are immediately placed on the board, then they are immediately considered Adventure Cards, which implies the Prophetess can replace them, lol...(she can't).

I'd really like a FAQ entry that clarifies:

- if drawn cards are in a state of limbo before getting put on the space,

--if such a state is needed to solve the Prophetess paradox I noted above...

- if replacement occurs before "when drawn/revealed,"

- if non-board, non-dragon scale count as "drawing"

Funny thing I like to call the "Prophetess paradox": many decks (e.g. Dragon, Nether, Bridge) are not considered "Adventure Cards" until they are faceup on the board. But, if they are immediately placed on the board, then they are immediately considered Adventure Cards, which implies the Prophetess can replace them, lol...(she can't).

I'd really like a FAQ entry that clarifies:

- if drawn cards are in a state of limbo before getting put on the space,

--if such a state is needed to solve the Prophetess paradox I noted above...

- if replacement occurs before "when drawn/revealed,"

- if non-board, non-dragon scale count as "drawing"

I don't see any issue with the Prophetess in this sequence as it is though. The way I interpret the rules is a sequence akin to this:

  1. The Prophetess draws however many cards she is instructed to as a single action (1+ cards).
  2. Triggered effects from the newly drawn cards are processed as needed as Simultaneous Effects with an order chosen by the Prophetess (Moving the Harbinger if an Event was drawn, flipping the Time Card, etc).
  3. The Prophetess may choose 1 Adventure card to replace if she chooses to do so.
  4. The drawn cards are placed faceup on the space (now Dragon, Nether, Bridge, Tunnel, Harbinger cards are classified as Adventure Cards).
  5. Begin encountering cards in encounter number order.

What I just don't get is the FAQ entry for Earthquake. The rules clearly state that all drawn cards are placed faceup in the space then encountered in the order of their encounter number. So, if you are encountering the Earthquake already, you have already placed all other cards on the space. The FAQ entry is the opposite of the rules descriptions.

Just put it down as a special rule just for cards like "Earthquake" and leave it at that.

I think sanityismyvanity proposed a good solution to the "Prophetess paradox".

As for the Earthquake FAQ, it might just be one of the topics to review in a 1.2 or 2.0 Talisman FAQ. It seems just a weird answer, considering how many effects that have been introduced since Reaper expansion. Flame Rift and Ifrit Invader from Firelands would be quite useless if the principle of this FAQ had to be applied to them.

As for controversial FAQ answers and Prophetess headaches, what about this:

Dark Denizens

Q: Can the Prophetess use her ability if the Dark Denizens Event is in effect?

A: Yes. After the Prophetess draws a Dungeon Card, she may discard it and draw another Dungeon Card to replace it.

On the main board the Prophetess may replace Adventure cards with Adventure Cards and in the Dungeon she may replace Dungeon cards with Dungeon cards, since her ability applies to Dungeon cards when in the Dungeon .

Dark Denizens says that whenever you draw Adventure cards, you must draw Dungeon cards instead. Why is the Prophetess then allowed to replace a Dungeon card drawn on the main board? Maybe she could replace an Adventure card with a Dungeon card, but she’s not drawing Adventure cards when Dark Denizens is in effect. She is drawing Dungeon Cards, and her ability doesn't apply to Dungeon cards. It applies to Dungeon Cards when she is in the Dungeon , not elsewhere.

The FAQ says it works instead, and makes an exception to the given rules, which is fine but it's not something I like. I prefer to have no special cases, for which I need the FAQ document on the table.

Actually, I do like the idea that the Dungeon Cards in the Adventure deck can be replaced.

The reason is that I like to think of them as "honorary Adventure Cards," meaning that they should be treated as if they got a green backing.

I especially think this because we are seeing more and more deck mixing. Adventure Cards getting shuffled in with the Bridge deck, for example (honorary Bridge Cards). I like to think the mixed cards "become" those card types until they go back to their own discard piles.

Also, thanks For the solution to the Prophetess paradox. It's what I do too! I keep the cards floating in space until the final selection is made, trigger when drawn effects, then plop them on the space to turn them into Adventure Cards. So perhaps there is indeed a state of limbo, but it's while cards are being drawn and selected, not while they're being encountered *cough*Digital Edition*cough*.

But to be fair I think they were just following the FAQ using the Earthquake bit. Not really their fault...it has to be changed I think, in the FAQ.

Edited by Artaterxes

I've always played the following...

Unless the card specifically states to place it on the space face up and then encounter it, I only consider a card "in play" once its number comes up. This means that cards "not in play" are not effected by game mechanics until they are officially encountered. If a card is never encountered because of effects from lower number cards, then it is placed on the space and officially "in play".

So in essence, I have played with a limbo rule.

But to answer the original question, yes, you would draw and encounter the card unless a card with a lower number prevents you from encountering it.

Edited by chemical22

As for the Earthquake FAQ, it might just be one of the topics to review in a 1.2 or 2.0 Talisman FAQ. It seems just a weird answer, considering how many effects that have been introduced since Reaper expansion. Flame Rift and Ifrit Invader from Firelands would be quite useless if the principle of this FAQ had to be applied to them.

Don't understand Flame Rift, yes if drawn before more cards but Ifrit Invader does not do anything like Earthquake?

I suppose cards like Earthquake etc etc only effect cards that are not drawn- revealed with the card. Once you know that its simple enough to keep your head on it.