Aaaaand you got me started. First off, I won't go too much into detail why the fight choreography, while flashy, is bad from a purely martial PoV. Martial accuracy does not necessarily a good movie make. Rodianclone hits the nail on the head when he says sometimes, slower is better, however. A lot of the movements during the prequel fights are needlessly flashy and have no real weight behind them. A movie fight, especially between hero and villain, established protagonist and antagonist, is the culmination of a clash of characters. They need time to emote, time to breathe and ideally, and this is where I feel the prequel fights fail, put that emotion, that conflict into their battle. The prequel fights feel like a split between action and character conflict. A good movie fight blends both.

For examples of what I consider successful blends, I would post these:

I'm with Pegg as far as opinions on the films go but I will say that without Star Wars, Empire wouldn't have necessarily been as good as a stand alone film. It is a better film story-wise but it also had the benefit of not having to introduce the main characters so was able to spend more time developing them.

As for my opinions on the Prequels, see the links below.

For examples of what I consider successful blends, I would post these:

Both fights give the actors room to act while fighting, and act as small, climatic analogies to the movies' plots themselves. They are the consequence, the summary and the climax of everything that has come before. And that, I feel, makes a good movie duel/fight.

Good stuff. And I'm reminded of one of my favorite "sword fight" films -- The Duellists. A fight doesn't need to be flashy, that's for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KWTEhyVX8

As for my ranking, the original will always be my favorite, so from best to worst it's IV, V, VI, III, II, I.

Great film ^

Good stuff. And I'm reminded of one of my favorite "sword fight" films -- The Duellists. A fight doesn't need to be flashy, that's for sure.

Great duel...in context. Completely suitable to the time and the story. Not sure what it has to do with SW though.

I don't really get what people are complaining about with regards to the PT duels. I think they're pretty epic, from scenery to sound to character interaction to lighting.

I enjoyed the PT duels. The only reason I dislike them is that they made me wish the duel on the Death Star (Obi-Wan vs Vader) was more interesting

Good stuff. And I'm reminded of one of my favorite "sword fight" films -- The Duellists. A fight doesn't need to be flashy, that's for sure.

Great duel...in context. Completely suitable to the time and the story. Not sure what it has to do with SW though.

I don't really get what people are complaining about with regards to the PT duels. I think they're pretty epic, from scenery to sound to character interaction to lighting.

Whose complaining?

Yes, the lightsaber battles are silly if not in the right mindset. In the OT they felt like in samurai movies, where cutting off arms also is a thing, with no rushing, every attack weighed and thought out(sometimes a bit reckless by the young learner Luke). In the PT it felt more like a superhero cartoon, and that can be cool enough if not taken too seriously or if the style fits. If you don`t expect the style and samurai theme of the OT, it can work and looks cool.

I agree that it feels weird to see Yoda with the sabre and he feels weaker and less cool somehow, not fitting his character. Still, kind of fun to watch...

I prefer the OT lightsaber fights, they are more classy and never threatens to kill my suspencion of disbelief. But I fully understand why some people like the PT fights better! It`s about style and preferences. Both are valid.

Sometimes I like to watch the PT sabre fights too if I am in that mindset.

Not complaining, see?^

You can appreaciate the OT and those kinds of duels and stll apprecuate the PT and that style for other reasons.

Oh, I agree. I'm fine with the duels in the prequels. I'd even go so far as to say they are some of the best parts of the films. My point in showing that clip from The Duellists is that not all duels have to be epic, flashy fights. Imagine that same scene, played out by two Makashi duelists. Or, imagine the scene on horseback played out by two guys with lightsabers.

Also, there are times when I'm tempted to nudge III up there into a tie with VI.

III has one of the best soundtracks, imo, and Obi-wan on Mustafar... I think Ewan McGregor nailed his scenes.

I get why people like them. They're fast, they're flashy, the choreography is tight and they're the high points in otherwise a bit bland movies.

To answer the question why I don't think they hold up to the ones in the OT as well as in other good films is threefold:

1) Yoda's, in particular, as said beforehand add nothing to his character. I'd say him being a master swordsman alongside someone who is 'extremely wise' and 'the most powerful force user' is dangerously close to Mary Sue territory. I liked Yoda better as a wise old man who doesn't fight himself.

2) They alternate between talking and fighting. Insanely fast versus no motion and only talking. The contrast is too stark at times. This made sense when it was essentially a beatdown of superior swordsman versus amateur in the OT. It makes less sense when you're facing someone who actually has some skill and literally years of warrior training with that specific weapon. The OT fights are largely Vader outright bullying a badly outmatched Luke. The prequel fights doesn't have this crass power discrepancy, so the stop and chat comes across as rather forced.

3) The big fights actually kill off the more interesting characters. Yeah, that bugs me.

But, I can get why people like them. I just don't. That's my prerogative.

I like all of the movies equally. I think it is because I try to lose myself in the movie and I don't see the hiccups until I think back on it after.

I can't believe nobody has put this up here yet...

I enjoyed the PT duels. The only reason I dislike them is that they made me wish the duel on the Death Star (Obi-Wan vs Vader) was more interesting

I think you're trolling but just in case:

https://youtu.be/ORWPCCzSgu0?t=5m55s

Edit: Fixed the start time to the right bit.

I enjoyed the PT duels. The only reason I dislike them is that they made me wish the duel on the Death Star (Obi-Wan vs Vader) was more interesting

The fight between Vader and Luke in RotJ is what ruined the Death Star duel for me. Such a far superior fight and hints at what we would eventually get in the PT.

I'm unsure what you mean. The ROTJ duel and the prequel fights have absolutely nothing in common, aside from a few stunts that were deliberately copied as a homage. The tone, emphasis and acting are worlds apart.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-midi-chlorians/

Star Wars: The Force Awakens': J.J. Abrams Says No Midi-Chlorians

For me,

IV

V

VI

I

III

II

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-midi-chlorians/

Star Wars: The Force Awakens': J.J. Abrams Says No Midi-Chlorians

Disney has created a super smart marketing campaign: "**** all over the prequels and we will get ALL the fans!" Their pandering to OT grognards will get them to show up and they will STILL get those they are pissing off who enjoy the PT. Ugh.

Seriously, all the hate they are spewing on the PT really has soured my expectation for this movie. It is simply unnecessary.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-midi-chlorians/

Star Wars: The Force Awakens': J.J. Abrams Says No Midi-Chlorians

Disney has created a super smart marketing campaign: "**** all over the prequels and we will get ALL the fans!" Their pandering to OT grognards will get them to show up and they will STILL get those they are pissing off who enjoy the PT. Ugh.

Seriously, all the hate they are spewing on the PT really has soured my expectation for this movie. It is simply unnecessary.

I haven't noticed this, but I haven't followed the publicity all that closely either. What exactly have they done to that ends?

I'm aware of Abrams saying he's not dealing with the pseudo-scientific explanation for the Force and might have put a Jar-Jar Binks skeleton gag in the background, but has there been more things said?

It makes sense that the new trilogy would adopt a tone closer to the OT, given that it's taking place shortly after it in continuity and shares a number of the same characters.

How is answering a question with "no" shitting all over the pt?

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-midi-chlorians/

Star Wars: The Force Awakens': J.J. Abrams Says No Midi-Chlorians

Disney has created a super smart marketing campaign: "**** all over the prequels and we will get ALL the fans!" Their pandering to OT grognards will get them to show up and they will STILL get those they are pissing off who enjoy the PT. Ugh.

Seriously, all the hate they are spewing on the PT really has soured my expectation for this movie. It is simply unnecessary.

You might be right, I have no idea. But if so, I can kind of get it. They want to let the majority of the fans know that they know the PT are bad movies and won`t do the same thing again. I enjoy the PT and a lot of what is in them, but they aren`t good objectively speaking and I know it. Still, nothing wrong with enjoying them or even loving parts of them.

That being sais, do they have more to this marketing campaign than killing off midichlorians(good riddance) and Simon Pegg speaking his personal opinion?

Honestly, given midichlorians only show up for a few minutes in the prequels, and otherwise have absolutely nothing to do with the force or the plot, the omission makes perfect sense. Lucas did the exact same thing (and let's be serious here: If he hadn't, Palpatine would've shown up on bio scanners as a force user and the cat would've been out of the bag). They were a mistake, and Lucas himself apparently realised it and quietly canned them.

As for enjoying objectively bad stuff: Man, I listen to KISS and Scooter. It's perfectly OK to enjoy even outright horrible things

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-midi-chlorians/

Star Wars: The Force Awakens': J.J. Abrams Says No Midi-Chlorians

Disney has created a super smart marketing campaign: "**** all over the prequels and we will get ALL the fans!" Their pandering to OT grognards will get them to show up and they will STILL get those they are pissing off who enjoy the PT. Ugh.

Seriously, all the hate they are spewing on the PT really has soured my expectation for this movie. It is simply unnecessary.

I haven't noticed this, but I haven't followed the publicity all that closely either. What exactly have they done to that ends?

I'm aware of Abrams saying he's not dealing with the pseudo-scientific explanation for the Force and might have put a Jar-Jar Binks skeleton gag in the background, but has there been more things said?

It makes sense that the new trilogy would adopt a tone closer to the OT, given that it's taking place shortly after it in continuity and shares a number of the same characters.

• The Star Wars Celebration EP 7 panel focused on an emphasis of using practical effects and JJ elusively stated the OT is his focus
• I think there was a tweet or two from JJ reiterating the focus on practical effects
• The most recent behind the scenes reveal has Mark Hamill stating as much as well
• There was another press conference where JJ said they treated the OT as canon, link is in the article posted above
• Then Kevin Smith made similar public remarks. For whatever that is worth
• Then Simon Pegg who is in the new film says he hates the prequels
• Then no to midichlorians

While taken individually each point is relatively harmless. But all of these very public points are creating a narrative that seems to clearly communicate that they are making these films for the OT fans, not Star Wars fans, but fans who loved the OT. Honestly I find it offensive. Because there is this narrative, that says to me it must be some sort of marketing ploy.

^No, idea how this is considered shitting all over the prequels though...

The focus is the OT. Which is not weird since the films follow the OT.

There is a focus on practical effects.

They are moving away from CGI a move prophecized by a lot of filmmakers including Peter Jackson.

That was the same Comiccon press conference if I recall corrctly and again that is not being harsh abot the prequels but it is just a way of letting people know what these movies will harken back to.

Kevin Smith has nothing to do with these movies, besides visiting the set one day.

Simon Pegg has been dumping on the PT for over 10 years.

And you can't be miffed about No to midichloirans can you?

Perhaps if you are seeing a narrative there it is because you are looking for it. I see no reason to find offense in any of these things (besides Simon Pegg perhaps who is just stating a personal preference). Now if they would say things like "Unlike the prequels..." or "not making the same mistakes again..." then you would have a point.

however right now as it stands there has been no offensive behaviour from the team creating the movies.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-force-awakens-midi-chlorians/

Star Wars: The Force Awakens': J.J. Abrams Says No Midi-Chlorians

Disney has created a super smart marketing campaign: "**** all over the prequels and we will get ALL the fans!" Their pandering to OT grognards will get them to show up and they will STILL get those they are pissing off who enjoy the PT. Ugh.

Seriously, all the hate they are spewing on the PT really has soured my expectation for this movie. It is simply unnecessary.

I'll be honest, if there was a whisper hint the new movies were going to be like the PTs I wouldn't go see them in the theater. They clearly are focusing on the OT and abandoning alot of the PT baggage. Are you saying you won't go see the new movies in the theater?