I had great fun in an epic game running a Warthog Horton with Blaster Turret and Expose (via Astromech), next to Jan Ors and granted an additional focus by the Rebel Transport. Two attacks of 4 dice each at Range 1 (or first attack at 5 dice, followed by 3).

I tried a few times making it work in 100 point lists...but it was pointless. Died most times without ever getting that glorious shot off.

I mean we already have an HLC turret that can large ship boost and barrel roll to get a stress and then get assigned a focus token for clearing his stress. That's the epitome of power creep right there.

Oh yeah, and he ignores obstacles. A ship that can ignore literally everything that makes this game challenging or interesting while giving up nothing. Neat.

I mean we already have an HLC turret that can large ship boost and barrel roll to get a stress and then get assigned a focus token for clearing his stress. That's the epitome of power creep right there.

Oh yeah, and he ignores obstacles. A ship that can ignore literally everything that makes this game challenging or interesting while giving up nothing. Neat.

The only real downside to that is he isn't high PS and has that bubble. Dengar though even improves on that as he gets an action for doing a green (K4) then can boost/barrel roll at PS9 (or even 11) and possible even have a ton more greens with unhinged astromech.

and we can get to like 10 defense dice

starviper + cloak + stealth + range 3 + obstruction+ bodyguard + being shot at by Zuckess

I was just about to post the same thing. Here the OP is complaining about 7 agi dice when that viper build can take it to 10. More interestingly, it could swap out Stealth Device for Autotrusters; that's 9 agi and 1 free evade (fairly solid chance of rolling 1 blank on 9 dice).

I kind of like the idea of being able to use all 9 of my reds or greens at one time. The combo is going to be astronomically rare, however it is achieved. It's kind of like a holy grail, a grand quest. If ever it comes up in real play, it ought to be appreciated for the rare thrill it is. And when dealing in astronomically improbable events, it should not be a surprise if that fistful comes up all blanks.

Just appreciate the strange beast, and appreciate the linked synergies and impeccable tactics (or twists of fate) that can bring it about.

The only thing that I would complain about is that even common R1 4-dice attacks are not conveniently possible with the dice actually provided in the common player's single core game set.

I mean we already have an HLC turret that can large ship boost and barrel roll to get a stress and then get assigned a focus token for clearing his stress. That's the epitome of power creep right there.

Oh yeah, and he ignores obstacles. A ship that can ignore literally everything that makes this game challenging or interesting while giving up nothing. Neat.

I don't think anyone would argue that Super-Dash isn't strong, but what's interesting is how difficult it is for him to deal with his weaknesses.

If he gets double stressed, suddenly he can't fly on asteroids with impunity.

If he comes up against anything with a reasonable amount of maneuverability and a higher PS, he's basically toast.

If (and this is a much bigger if than those above) he gets cornered by a swarm, he'll be stuck there for 1 or 2 turns.

I hear a lot about the terribly powerful Super-Dash is but I don't think he is nearly the boogeyman that a lot of people make him out to be, particularly as he is PS 7 and vulnerable to pretty much all the maneuverable ace pilots.

The Ghost's maneuver dial is probably garbage.

The Ghost's maneuver dial is probably garbage.

Maybe, maybe. It is the first large with a 4 green straight?

I don't know how Wave 8 will shake out until, like, it hits my table. It does seem that each Wave sees more ships and combinations of ships being better and more playable in a competitive sense.

In one sense, the power of the low end ships are creeping up to where the higher end ships have been.

Look, I love X Wing, and for the most part it is fairly balanced. And, with currently released products in a standard 100 point match, it is very hard to get more than 4 primary weapon attack dice, much less 5+ agility dice. However, with wave 8 coming, it looks like it is possible to get to 7 attack dice and 7 evade dice. How?

SEVEN ATTACK DICE

Ghost (4)

Expose (+1) - The card is fuzzy but it looks like it has an EPT's and/astromech slot for R2d6

Range 1 (+1)

Jan Or's ability (+1)

SEVEN EVADE DICE

Any Star viper (Guri is a great choice) (3)

Cloaked with new Cloaking Device (+2)

Range 3 (+1)

Obstructed (+1)

With Guri this also means you have a Focus AND Evade token......

Seven attack dice sitting behind zero evade dice and probably 3 thirds of your squad cost.

Not scary.

Seven evade dice...at the cost of not being able to shoot.

Sounds fine.

I hate how new waves (except wave seven funnily enough) bring out the chicken little posters with no avatars and low post counts.

The Viper can actually get to 9 (3 base, Range 3, Obstruction, Cloak, Stealth Device, Bodyguard). Thing is, the cloak will break soon enough, Bodyguard requires a buddy ship to give up actions, Range 3 and Obstructions are unreliable, one hit takes the Stealth Device off, and then you're a three dicer again.

As for the Ghost, seven attack dice is nothing to worry about because again the component demands reduce its power to a balanced level. Ever run Keyan HLC Opportunist with Wes Janson and Jan Ors? Six dice Heavy Laser Cannon. It works at Range 3! It gets utterly shredded.

This thread is becoming a tradition, just like the Wave X Speculation thread that appears before Wave (X-1) is even released...

Anyway, IMO, the balance in this game has never been better than under Alex Davy. There were a few dodgy decisions in previous waves (undercosted Bs, overcosted Defenders, too good dials on the first PWT ships) but new releases been impressively well-balanced for quite some time.

vs

An increase in potential power doesn't imply power creep, so long as it's appropriately costed. How much do you spend, both in point and opportunity, for the power mentioned in the OP? Quite a lot I'd say. I definitely don't think the new stealth device upgrade is OP, it sounds like a cool, fun new option to me.

I'm fairly sure the OPer must know this - is it trolling/joking, or do you think they're undercosted?

This thread is becoming a tradition, just like the Wave X Speculation thread that appears before Wave (X-1) is even released...

There's a whole wave of X-1s?!

Amusingly enough none of these threads have realized it shoots twice.

It doesn't do that until the end of the round, and it's only a turret shot. Plus, with ten hull and no agility, this thing is going to wear every crit you can hang from it.

The only area where I would argue FFG is definitively showing signs of power creep is in the strength of ordinance, but that's starting from such a low floor that I'm not sure it's a problem.

This thread is becoming a tradition, just like the Wave X Speculation thread that appears before Wave (X-1) is even released...

Anyway, IMO, the balance in this game has never been better than under Alex Davy. There were a few dodgy decisions in previous waves (undercosted Bs, overcosted Defenders, too good dials on the first PWT ships) but new releases been impressively well-balanced for quite some time.

vs

I didn't find a quick answer to this on Google... When did Alex Davy take over development on X-Wing? I've only been playing since fall 2014.

I mean we already have an HLC turret that can large ship boost and barrel roll to get a stress and then get assigned a focus token for clearing his stress. That's the epitome of power creep right there.

Oh yeah, and he ignores obstacles. A ship that can ignore literally everything that makes this game challenging or interesting while giving up nothing. Neat.

The only real downside to that is he isn't high PS and has that bubble. Dengar though even improves on that as he gets an action for doing a green (K4) then can boost/barrel roll at PS9 (or even 11) and possible even have a ton more greens with unhinged astromech.

I like how 7 PS isn't considered high anymore. It's high enough to rule out anything that's sub-PS 7, and therefore in order to counter him your best bet is some even higher PS small ship ace and a fat turret because fat turrets don't give a **** about arc dodgers, an Super Dash is the best arc dodged in the game.

Even the pre-nerf phantom had counters. Didn't mean it wasn't game breaking. You could make a squad that would autowin against Phantoms pre-nerf, and then you'd lose to pretty much everything else because you were flying a HWK, Y Wing, B Wing, and X Wing list that barely had any firepower but could let off 2 PS 12 Ion cannon/turret shots/stressbot shots.

Much of my problem with Super Ships is how they reduce the game to hard counters and winning/losing in the list building phase.

This thread is becoming a tradition, just like the Wave X Speculation thread that appears before Wave (X-1) is even released...

Anyway, IMO, the balance in this game has never been better than under Alex Davy. There were a few dodgy decisions in previous waves (undercosted Bs, overcosted Defenders, too good dials on the first PWT ships) but new releases been impressively well-balanced for quite some time.

vs

I didn't find a quick answer to this on Google... When did Alex Davy take over development on X-Wing? I've only been playing since fall 2014.

Alex Davy and Frank Brooks have been on X wing since the development of Wave 4. I'd certainly agree there were more weird decisions before them, and some things are still a bit odd from their work (like the defender cost). This will be the fifth consecutive wave they have been overseeing, though. And they haven't messed it up yet.

Look, I love X Wing, and for the most part it is fairly balanced. And, with currently released products in a standard 100 point match, it is very hard to get more than 4 primary weapon attack dice, much less 5+ agility dice. However, with wave 8 coming, it looks like it is possible to get to 7 attack dice and 7 evade dice. How?

SEVEN ATTACK DICE

Ghost (4)

Expose (+1) - The card is fuzzy but it looks like it has an EPT's and/astromech slot for R2d6

Range 1 (+1)

Jan Or's ability (+1)

SEVEN EVADE DICE

Any Star viper (Guri is a great choice) (3)

Cloaked with new Cloaking Device (+2)

Range 3 (+1)

Obstructed (+1)

With Guri this also means you have a Focus AND Evade token......

This thread is becoming a tradition, just like the Wave X Speculation thread that appears before Wave (X-1) is even released...

Anyway, IMO, the balance in this game has never been better than under Alex Davy. There were a few dodgy decisions in previous waves (undercosted Bs, overcosted Defenders, too good dials on the first PWT ships) but new releases been impressively well-balanced for quite some time.

vs

I didn't find a quick answer to this on Google... When did Alex Davy take over development on X-Wing? I've only been playing since fall 2014.

Alex Davy and Frank Brooks have been on X wing since the development of Wave 4. I'd certainly agree there were more weird decisions before them, and some things are still a bit odd from their work (like the defender cost). This will be the fifth consecutive wave they have been overseeing, though. And they haven't messed it up yet.

What!? Wave 1,2,3 where by far the most balanced and normal of all the waves. It was wave 4 and 5 that really made the meta about fat turrets.

What!? Wave 1,2,3 where by far the most balanced and normal of all the waves. It was wave 4 and 5 that really made the meta about fat turrets.

Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. Any design and development team, on a brand-new game, is going to take a while to find their feet. But are you serious?

Wave 1: TIE Advanced is underpowered by 4-5 points. X-wing is underpowered by 1-2 points (although this is less of an issue while there are no other ships with 3 Attack).

Wave 2: Introduces the first primary weapon turret (which will cause some problems later). TIE Interceptors are too fragile. A-wings are underpowered by 2 points.

Wave 3: The B-wing smothers the X-wing. The HWK will prove too fragile to function well as a support ship, and 1 Attack means it can't function on offense without an upgrade. The Shuttle's dial is so bad it will be overlooked by most players for months. TIE Bomber is fine overall, but has few good options for ordnance, and Major Rhymer is laughably overpriced.

EDIT: My point isn't that Waves 1-3 were terrible and Waves 4+ are great. (As Teh HOBO says, overall it's a fun and balanced game, certainly when compared to most of its competitors.) But anyone who says that Waves 1-3 are the halcyon days where everything was fine and dandy... let's say that person has a very selective memory.

"Balanced X-Wing" as seen through rose coloured glasses:

Wave 1-3

Massively overcosted Advanced

Overcosted and borderline useless ordinance

Slightly undercosted Blue Squadron B

Overcosted unique B-Wing pilots

Slightly overcosted X-Wing(I won't make this argument, it holds water though)

Overcosted Lambda pilots

Overcosted A-Wing

Wave 4+

Cloaking mechanics+ ACD

Overcosted Defender

Overcosted E-wing

Fat Turret meta explodes

Overcosted Starviper

Overcosted Heavy Syck title

Note: I'm not for or against any of these points. X-Wing is still a wonderfully balanced and fun game.

Wave 1: X-wing is mathematically inferior to Tie Fighter. Y-wing is pigeonhold by lousy ordnance and the offensively-lacking Ion Cannon Turret. Tie Advanced is dreadful.

Wave 2: Falcon is fine, but introduces Engine Upgrade for Large ships was just waiting for the right time to become a problem. Firespray has lousy High PS pilot abilities. Tie Interceptor had awful generics and spent to much for the boost action before autothrusters were printed four waves later. A-wing was overpriced

Wave 3: Shuttle Uniques are overpriced and could use at least 1 EPT somewhere, although the generic Omicron Group Pilot proved to be highly effective in the right hands. The Tie Bomber lacked anything to do except be annoyingly hard to kill for a 16 point ship because ordnance was still bad. The Blue Squadron B-wing can actually compete with the Tie Fighter efficiency wise (The Tie still wins, but it's close), but had awful uniques.

Wave 4: De-cloaking mechanic was broken. Defender and E-wing are awkward priced. Z-95's equivilent efficiency to the Tie Fighter puts the final nail in the coffin for most x-wing.

Wave 5: Benefits of Fat ships and big-ship post-maneuver movement fully discovered.

Wave 6: Y-wing fixed. Scum Hwks are actually good. Z-95s still good. Firesprays with actually good abilities! Aggressors are still fat, but at least are fat without having turrets. Generic Starvipers could stand to be cheaper and might need another upgrade slot of some kind, but introduce the autothrusters that finally allow interceptors to stand against turrets. Scyk is overpriced.

Wave 7: Kihraxz gives scum a solid midrange ship that it lacks. Hound's Tooth appears to be an interesting ship that isn't truly fat due to lack of defensive upgrades in scum. Bombs get better.

The scum cloaking device will play different than ACD. You actually have to sacrifice rounds of attacking in order to reposition. This means that massive stack of agility is only partially useful. And that's only if you don't roll to remove it when you don't want to!

Honestly the tie swarm meta was much less interesting than the current meta.