I was reading the comments about the GenCon results - i.e. zero fighters, and it got me thinking.

Would it be possible to build a fleet with several small "carriers" where the squadrons are used as extensions of the ship rather than the ship being a dedicated carrier?

Maybe not, but this is the first list that came to mind:

AF MkII (A): Mon Mothma, Advanced Projectors, Raymus Antiles, Enhanced Armament, Gallant Haven

CR90 (A): Leia

CR90 (A)

3x X-Wings (to go with the AF)

1x A-Wing (to go with one CR90)

1x A-Wing (to go with the other CR90)

The idea is that the squadrons are matched with the ships in terms of speed so that they can maneuver with them.

The CR90s have the flexibility to "throw" out an A-Wing when it needs to to harass a ship with a black die or to tie up some other squadrons.

The X-Wings hang out with the AF - Raymus will allow me to use all 3 without Expanded Hangers. The Projectors are there to keep it in the fight and tank hits (Raymus also lets me regenerate 3 shields per turn).

Leia is there to throw a Squadron order to the AF for max effect when(if) needed.

3 nebs + squadrons is basically that idea.

cr90s, sadly, don't really cut it with only Squadron 1 (at that point, they're better off spamming CF than throwing one x or A)

the alternative is just have the fattie focus on the squadrons when needed; let the cr90s be cr90s

with Haven, you don' t really need dedicated anti-squadron squadrons because Haven is just disgusting and will let your squadrons win any engagement against other squadrons. Because of this, and how hilariously brace scales with haven's ability (which kicks in after braces halves damage, so you have to deal 3 damage to a havened ace to do one damage) you can afford to go for less, more elite squadrons.

you got Luke & Keyan for anti-ship, Dutch & wedge for anti-squadron (also black dice, so not all bad), and Tycho if you hate enemy bombers

the most important thing to realize with this kind of list, though, is that you don't necessarily have to enable the squadrons at all. As long as your ships can do their thing, pewpewing at long range, you can win yourself some games. The squadrons come in when you're facing other squadrons, or close range terrors such as GSDs because they're the only way to add significant close range punch to rebel ships (until the mc30 shrimp frigate). the only time you have to worry about making them work is when you're facing off against a foe with superior long range power than you, in which case you will have to give chase.

I played 4 X-Wings (including Wedge) with a Gallant Haven today and they won me the game. Seriously, it's the Rebel's Demolisher in terms of power level I only lost one squadron due to an AF barrage from a Glad II, while my Squadrons and good timing of my commands killed Howlrunner, Mauler, 2 Interceptors, 3 TIE and infilcted 5 total damage (2 shields, 3 hull) on a Victory Star Destroyer.

It is by far the best upgrade for squadrons, so you can't go wrong with it

Haven's the best upgrade for Squadrons v Squadrons

technically, the best all-round upgrade for squadrons is Yavaris (****'s ridic!)

Haven's amazing though, not going to lie. Just don't feel pressured to use it as a delivery system if you don't have to.

Yeah, Yavaris is immensely powerful for sure, but it requires building and playing around ^^

Gallant Haven is not necessarily a delivery system, but if you use it as one, don't forget to put Electronic Countermeasures over Advanced Projectors. The fact that you have no redundancy in the defense tokens means that the AFMK2 is extremely vulnerable to Accuracy results. Electronic Countermeasures for me has made the difference between surviving the front arc of a VSD 1 and 2 and just melting down. I feel Advanced Projectors are much more useful for Imperials due to having redundant redirect tokens.

well imps don't have the D. retrofit slot yet

but the ISD is coming with D. retrofit upgrades

advanced projector isds, inc

Ah, good catch, I was convinced that the VSDs had some ! Well, maybe it's a good fit for the AFMK2 if the opponent doesn't have accuracies, but I feel its main advantage is when you stay at very long range with the Frigate, so that the opponent will have 3 defense tokens to choose from. So Evade reduces by 1 to 2, Brace halves and the Super Redirect virtually makes the facing you're being shot at of a shield value of 12.

For closer range AFMK2, the mileage you'll get from ECM is priceles from my experience.

... Well now that I do the math I'm not so sure about ECM being better at close range compared to Advanced Projectors... They just might make a YOLO Assault Frigate that builds on Engineering Commands actually work.

I believe you had it right with ECM > projectors. The one of each defense token on such a big target can be a huge liability if the opponent even rolls a lucky accuracy

And yet, the math at close-medium range may still favour advanced projectors... Of course, if the VSD 2 rolls 2 accuracies on his blues and 3 double damage on red with an extra blue crit, you're toast

But for "average" rolls, rolling two accuracies limits the damage by as much (so they work as a "built-in" Brace), so if the opponent negates both your Brace and Shields he'll do two less dice of damage. Of course, I would personnally prefer ECM to ensure the use of the Brace token for critical rolls like this. Especially considering that it is a 2 points

However, Advanced Projectors work better on a Mk 2 B remaining at long range probably. It's likely to take a lot less burst damage, and the opponent will probably negate your Brace and/or Evade tokens before the redirects at this range. And if he negates the redirect, you still have damage canceling and damage mitigation. Actually, while typing this, this looks like a much better combo now that I think about it

@ArtifixPrime, sorry to derail your thread but it's an interesting discussion for your build How about the following build for Gallant Haven :

AFMK2 B (72) : Advanced Projectors (6), Enhanced Armaments (10), Gunnery Team (7), Gallant Haven (8)

It comes at 103 points and it works best to circle around the battlefield and its primary source of damage will come from the squadrons you activate. Expanded Hangar Bays is much better than Raymus imho on the AFMK2 simply for the fact that if you take Raymus for the extra squadron token you're paying 2 points on top of Expanded Hangar Bays for the same effect.

Raymus works best on Corvettes because he allows to pull the double dragon combo of dial + token. Meaning that if you choose the squadron command with your Vette, you're actually doubling the number of squadrons you activate, you're also adding one point of engineering to the Vette that badly needs it (the Difference between 2 and 3 points is huge) or you can have complete control of the navigation (especially with Nav Team).

And yet, the math at close-medium range may still favour advanced projectors... Of course, if the VSD 2 rolls 2 accuracies on his blues and 3 double damage on red with an extra blue crit, you're toast

But for "average" rolls, rolling two accuracies limits the damage by as much (so they work as a "built-in" Brace), so if the opponent negates both your Brace and Shields he'll do two less dice of damage. Of course, I would personnally prefer ECM to ensure the use of the Brace token for critical rolls like this. Especially considering that it is a 2 points

However, Advanced Projectors work better on a Mk 2 B remaining at long range probably. It's likely to take a lot less burst damage, and the opponent will probably negate your Brace and/or Evade tokens before the redirects at this range. And if he negates the redirect, you still have damage canceling and damage mitigation. Actually, while typing this, this looks like a much better combo now that I think about it

@ArtifixPrime, sorry to derail your thread but it's an interesting discussion for your build How about the following build for Gallant Haven :

AFMK2 B (72) : Advanced Projectors (6), Enhanced Armaments (10), Gunnery Team (7), Gallant Haven (8)

It comes at 103 points and it works best to circle around the battlefield and its primary source of damage will come from the squadrons you activate. Expanded Hangar Bays is much better than Raymus imho on the AFMK2 simply for the fact that if you take Raymus for the extra squadron token you're paying 2 points on top of Expanded Hangar Bays for the same effect.

Raymus works best on Corvettes because he allows to pull the double dragon combo of dial + token. Meaning that if you choose the squadron command with your Vette, you're actually doubling the number of squadrons you activate, you're also adding one point of engineering to the Vette that badly needs it (the Difference between 2 and 3 points is huge) or you can have complete control of the navigation (especially with Nav Team).

@MoffZen: No problem - I was enjoying the discussion

I've had a tendency to use my AF as a delivery system (as ficklegreendice mentioned is not always necessary ), and so I've often used Raymus for engineering commands to get 3 shields back per turn on the run in. This, in theory, gives me a decent chance or driving into the face of a VSD and getting the job done. Results have been mixed though, so I might give your idea a go.

I like the idea of Raymus on a corvette with say, a pair of a-wings alongside.

Quite often I end up using my AF as bait to keep the heat off the usual pair of Nebs I run - the plan being that they will get a clear run in and be able to use their red dice to full effect.

Also, I've used

If the AFMK2 is more of a bait and a straight up brawler, then the A version is definitely more interesting due to more dice at medium ranges. In that case I can't recommend Electronic Counter Measures enough ! The ability to ensure a Brace or Redirect when you need it the most (aka in the front arc of a Star Destroyer for instance at close or medium range) is definitely the difference between living to fight another turn or blowing up and drifting in space Especially if you're running Mon Mothma, now you have the choice between 3 tokens at any range which is always nice !

Then I feel that to get the most out of your Frigate, the upgrades cards must be chosen according to what orders you're planning on giving to the ship most of the time. Example : in a carrier focused AFMK2, you might want to play with the squadron command quite a bit and ensure fighter superiority. In this case, Expanded Hangars and Adar Tallon work well enough in that regard, because they're going to really make each squadron command that much better (think of Expanded Hangar Bays as the Concetrate fire for Squadron Commands ). These upgrades are boosting your ship actively (aka when you resolve an order). Enhanced Armaments works pretty well too because it boosts your carrier frigate passively because you won't be spamming concetrate fire commands and still get quite a bit of utility out of it even when you are using squadron commands. Gunnery Team is another great upgrade for a carrier AFMK2, because it allows you to skirt the edges of the battlefield, use your squadron commands to ensure fighter superiority (defensively with Gallant Haven, offensively by sending them away) while supporting them with an anti-fighter barrage and still shooting from the same arc at capital ships.

If you're running this ship mainly as a carrier, I can't recommend the AFMK2 B enough with enhanced armament and gunnery team and Gallant Haven and to not exclude playing at longer range, keeping your squadrons close and only throwing them forward on two conditions, where you either :

1) Are sure to win the Fighter Battle without the need for damage mitigation. Meaning that you have the initiative and the ability to strike first with your squadrons and deal sufficient damage even if the opponent pops a Squadron Command right after.

2) Know that you have to move your AFMK2 B forward in support of them anyways (example when you're playing Contested Outpost and you need that Command value of 3 in range band 1 of the station to prevent enemy scoring it).

If you plan to be more aggressive with your AFMK2 and use it directly to deal damage, here's a fun build that I'd like to try :

AFMK2 A - Enhanced Armaments, ECM, Sensor Team, Point Defense Reroute. It's more aggressive than the Defensive MK2 B and you'll be counting on throwing it first then throwing your squadrons in. Point defense reroute will greatly help in anti-squadron thanks to two blue dice