No, I linked the correct book. The Star Wars: Complete Vehicles is a reprint from 2007 and does not have the Disney seal on it. Therefor, NOT canon.

True. Rebels The Visual Guide , however, is post-announcement. So is Star Wars In 100 Scenes.

Given that other description then, it still doesn't make sense for this ship to have LESS armor than the standard TIE.

It should have been 4 Hull, 1 Shield then.

Standard TIEs are massively over-armoured compared to the computer games. Same amount of hull as an X-wing, whereas in the games, it's more like half.

The idea seems to me that this is the precursor to Vader's TIE - faster, but not as armoured.

It's a great ship. I'm thinking VI+ Title+ thrusters and maybe tracers for the inquisitor should do it and keep him cheap enough to lead.

If a 17pt PS 1 awing didn't see play for the rebels with no cheaper option I can't see 18pt awing flying for the imperials with 2 cheaper options happening either. Add in the named ties (new and old) and there's a lot of competition there.

I think it has to have an interceptor(ish) to awing dial and be 17 or less at PS2. I don't feel that is unreasonable since the inquisitors ability is worth at least a point. I'll be very very happy if it's 16 because then it could see some playtime. 17 with that title would mean 5 with upgrades in a full list and that feels pretty solid (probably sub in a named tie and an academy in reality. See what they are competing against!).

Given that other description then, it still doesn't make sense for this ship to have LESS armor than the standard TIE.

It should have been 4 Hull, 1 Shield then.

3 Hull, 1 Shield, you mean?

It's worth considering that there's physically more of the standard TIE to hit. Higher hull could mean more hull rather than better hull in this case.

I'm shocked at how some players are reacting to this ship. What is a TIE Fighter with one extra HP (two of those being shields), boost\BR, missile, and the ability to take V1 and AT worth? I'm guessing that the base (PS2) is going to start at 17 or 18. I'm hoping for 17. This way you could run 5 of the base TAPs with V1 and AT. I'll take that over Howelrunner and 5 TIEs.

I'm starting to warm to the idea that the base cost might be lower (under the assumption that the dial will be very similar to the TA and the V1 is it's only viable title). Let's assume that FFG learned its lesson from the A-wing. A PS1 Awing (with CR) starts at 15. The A-wing cannot BR. I also believe it has a far superior dial to the TA (and therefore the TAP too if I'm right). So A-wing + 1PS - BR - green turns = (guessing) 16 points? If this is the case.... my poor TIE Fighters will rarely see the light of day!

I'm shocked at how some players are reacting to this ship. What is a TIE Fighter with one extra HP (two of those being shields), boost\BR, missile, and the ability to take V1 and AT worth? I'm guessing that the base (PS2) is going to start at 17 or 18. I'm hoping for 17. This way you could run 5 of the base TAPs with V1 and AT. I'll take that over Howelrunner and 5 TIEs.

I'm starting to warm to the idea that the base cost might be lower (under the assumption that the dial will be very similar to the TA and the V1 is it's only viable title). Let's assume that FFG learned its lesson from the A-wing. A PS1 Awing (with CR) starts at 15. The A-wing cannot BR. I also believe it has a far superior dial to the TA (and therefore the TAP too if I'm right). So A-wing + 1PS - BR - green turns = (guessing) 16 points? If this is the case.... my poor TIE Fighters will rarely see the light of day!

It will definitely be 19 or less. Assuming the named pilots all have EPTs, it might get down to 16 or around there. This is just based on a general idea that EPTs are worth about a point on most ships and pilot skill is worth about a point for an increment of 1.

Occasionally, pilot abilities are also given a point or two in cost though they seem to have shied away from that more recently or just haven't had the situation where they felt they needed the extra cost.

Yeah too low it's a better tie fighter, too high it's losing out to the tie interceptor or advanced.

The idea seems to me that this is the precursor to Vader's TIE - faster, but not as armoured.

Yeah, but that's the exact opposite of what it's SUPPOSED to be.

The whole reason the v1 doesn't have solar panels on the outside of it's wings is because they were replaced by extra armor plates. The x1 does have solar panels because it DOESN'T have those extra armor plates.

More shields on the x1? That would make sense. More armor? No.

Armor could be shields. You're not eating critical damage when something bites into your armor

Yeah too low it's a better tie fighter, too high it's losing out to the tie interceptor or advanced.

This is another reason why I think it's going to come in at 17 or 18. Otherwise it is getting into TIE Fighter territory. I won't rehash the argument I've listed out a few time now, but it really seams like this will be priced closer to the Interceptor than it will the TIE Fighter. 17 points would place it right between the bomber and the Interceptor.

Vader's TIE Advanced is also a lot bulkier - having a big chunk of hull projecting behind the dome.

Starting with Vader's ship, and then " downscaling" it, means less hit points.

It wouldn't be the only example of a ship with unusually low hull rating - the Headhunter springs to mind. In most games, it's larger and tougher than the standard TIE. In this one, it's not.

I hope it'll be 16 points. At 17 I'll buy a single one only.

At 16 I'd be thorougly tempted to run 6 of them eventually.

We like to call it the TAP

Not me. I'm sure TAP will take on, but I like calling it the V1. It's shorter and that's really what it is.

Given that other description then, it still doesn't make sense for this ship to have LESS armor than the standard TIE.

It should have been 4 Hull, 1 Shield then.

The idea seems to me that this is the precursor to Vader's TIE - faster, but not as armoured.

Yeah, but that's the exact opposite of what it's SUPPOSED to be.

The whole reason the v1 doesn't have solar panels on the outside of it's wings is because they were replaced by extra armor plates. The x1 does have solar panels because it DOESN'T have those extra armor plates.

More shields on the x1? That would make sense. More armor? No.

I have no idea about the Wookiepedia page. I'm going on what I've seen of the ship from the Rebels tv show. Looking at it, the V1 is obviously a pre-cursor to the X1. So, it's an idea that they were trying out before they went to Vader's X1. The V1 looks like an agile little ship and the folding s-foils make it look a little brittle. If it has more armor, it's probably to compensate from the fact that it's not as stable or sturdy as a regular Tie Fighter. The outer foils and such are still pretty weak. So, I can easily see that it's only got 2 hull. Just looking at the ship from the tv show, it looks like it sacrificed some hull to make it a fast and agile ship that has jump capability. It also made up for that fact with Shields. So, overall less sturdy, but more nimble than a Tie Fighter. It's got shields to be harder to kill than a Tie Fighter.

That's also part of the reason why I think it's going to have a great dial. Maybe not as good as an Interceptor, but better than a regular Tie Fighter. I don't care what Wookiepedia says. That's how I see the ship and that's how I bet they are going to design it.

We like to call it the TAP

Not me. I'm sure TAP will take on, but I like calling it the V1. It's shorter and that's really what it is.

Given that other description then, it still doesn't make sense for this ship to have LESS armor than the standard TIE.

It should have been 4 Hull, 1 Shield then.

The idea seems to me that this is the precursor to Vader's TIE - faster, but not as armoured.

Yeah, but that's the exact opposite of what it's SUPPOSED to be.

The whole reason the v1 doesn't have solar panels on the outside of it's wings is because they were replaced by extra armor plates. The x1 does have solar panels because it DOESN'T have those extra armor plates.

More shields on the x1? That would make sense. More armor? No.

I have no idea about the Wookiepedia page. I'm going on what I've seen of the ship from the Rebels tv show. Looking at it, the V1 is obviously a pre-cursor to the X1. So, it's an idea that they were trying out before they went to Vader's X1. The V1 looks like an agile little ship and the folding s-foils make it look a little brittle. If it has more armor, it's probably to compensate from the fact that it's not as stable or sturdy as a regular Tie Fighter. The outer foils and such are still pretty weak. So, I can easily see that it's only got 2 hull. Just looking at the ship from the tv show, it looks like it sacrificed some hull to make it a fast and agile ship that has jump capability. It also made up for that fact with Shields. So, overall less sturdy, but more nimble than a Tie Fighter. It's got shields to be harder to kill than a Tie Fighter.

That's also part of the reason why I think it's going to have a great dial. Maybe not as good as an Interceptor, but better than a regular Tie Fighter. I don't care what Wookiepedia says. That's how I see the ship and that's how I bet they are going to design it.

First, it is not a V1 (in this game) unless the title is equipped. It is a TIE Adv. Prototype.

Second, judging by the show makes this even more of a crap shoot to hypothesize its base cost. If this thing gets an Interceptor dial, it's going to have a base cost of 20 plus. If it gets a TIE Fighter dial, I still think that's a better dial than the TA, and the base TA is 21 points! Mind you, let's say the base TA is now 17 (giving it the full X1 title discount). What is boost and the loss of evade and one hull worth? Do we call it a wash? I still think we're talking about 17 or 18 points if the TAP has the TA dial + white 1 turns.

I disagree. It's still a V1 even if it doesn't take the title. Is the Tie Advanced not the X1 unless it takes the title? I say they are V1 and X1, no matter if they take the title or not. It's just a game mechanic to provide a bonus, which makes it semantics to not call them by their versions.

Why do you say the dial changes the cost? It can have the same dial as the Tie Interceptor, but not be the same points as that. Everything here is speculation based on assumptions. It's my personal opinion that it will have a dial at least as good as a Tie Fighter. Why wouldn't it? There's nothing in the show or background that would indicate it would be worse. It looks like it has more than the Tie Fighter, but is structurally weaker. It has less than the X1, but will be faster and more nimble. I say for sure it will have a better dial than the X1.

Armor could be shields.

That's stupid.

The core rules even specifically state:

Armor could be shields. You're not eating critical damage when something bites into your armor

I feel like this was what they were going for. Obviously for practical reasons the stats are rarely going to line up perfectly with the lore an so their priority is to make it /play/ like it should lorewise.

I disagree. It's still a V1 even if it doesn't take the title. Is the Tie Advanced not the X1 unless it takes the title? I say they are V1 and X1, no matter if they take the title or not. It's just a game mechanic to provide a bonus, which makes it semantics to not call them by their versions.

Why do you say the dial changes the cost? It can have the same dial as the Tie Interceptor, but not be the same points as that. Everything here is speculation based on assumptions. It's my personal opinion that it will have a dial at least as good as a Tie Fighter. Why wouldn't it? There's nothing in the show or background that would indicate it would be worse. It looks like it has more than the Tie Fighter, but is structurally weaker. It has less than the X1, but will be faster and more nimble. I say for sure it will have a better dial than the X1.

So words don't mean anything? You can "call" the ships anything you want. According to FFG, the name on the dial is the name of the miniature. Not my opinion, that's FFG's ruling on the matter.

The dial very much matters. The more diverse and the more greens on a dial the more that ship is going to cost. An Interceptor is not 6 points more than a TIE Fighter because of the added attack die alone. That full line of green 2 movements plays a part as well. They are all factors that add into the total cost (or value) of the ship. I agree that it would seem that the TAP will be more nimble than the TA at the cost of a little less armor.

I disagree. It's still a V1 even if it doesn't take the title. Is the Tie Advanced not the X1 unless it takes the title? I say they are V1 and X1, no matter if they take the title or not. It's just a game mechanic to provide a bonus, which makes it semantics to not call them by their versions.

Why do you say the dial changes the cost? It can have the same dial as the Tie Interceptor, but not be the same points as that. Everything here is speculation based on assumptions. It's my personal opinion that it will have a dial at least as good as a Tie Fighter. Why wouldn't it? There's nothing in the show or background that would indicate it would be worse. It looks like it has more than the Tie Fighter, but is structurally weaker. It has less than the X1, but will be faster and more nimble. I say for sure it will have a better dial than the X1.

So words don't mean anything? You can "call" the ships anything you want. According to FFG, the name on the dial is the name of the miniature. Not my opinion, that's FFG's ruling on the matter.

The dial very much matters. The more diverse and the more greens on a dial the more that ship is going to cost. An Interceptor is not 6 points more than a TIE Fighter because of the added attack die alone. That full line of green 2 movements plays a part as well. They are all factors that add into the total cost (or value) of the ship. I agree that it would seem that the TAP will be more nimble than the TA at the cost of a little less armor.

Words do matter, but I'm not a slave to them or to what exactly is printed on the dial. Clearly, the Tie Advanced is the X1 and the Tie Advanced Prototype is the V1. Not giving the specific card in my list the title card is not going to really change that. The title card is purely a mechanism by the game to introduce a game effect. Until either the Tie Advanced or Tie Advanced Prototype are allowed to take other titles, it's not a stretch to call them the X1 and the V1. You only limit yourselves if you have to follow the lines of logic of the game mechanics.

As for the fact that the how good a dial is impacts the price on the ship, I agree with that...but this is something the developers work out. They already know how much the ship costs and how good the dial is. To sit there and say that if it's the same as the Interceptor then it's going to cost x points or if it's as good as the Tie it will be y points is just silly. It will cost what it costs and we are all just making assumptions. I believe it will be reasonably priced and have a better dial than the Tie Fighter. These are just my assumptions and guesses.

EDIT: What I mean by this is that if it has the same dial as the Interceptor doesn't mean it's going to cost the same price as the Interceptor's cheapest. Or whatever formula you have guessed at.

I do not claim to KNOW what the TAP base will cost or why. I offer a hypothesis founded in evidence of past miniatures. Rather than feel, I am gathering the evidence that I have, and using it to support an argument. The points of my argument can be debated based off of the strengths of its proofs.

I feel a lot of things, but feeling is not supportive evidence for an argument. Do I WANT the TAP to be 14 to 16 points? Heck yea! That would make me feel great! I argue that it would not make logical sense for it to be so inexpensive. I have given, through out this and other forums, my proofs as to why I hypothesize this. We can argue these points... we just can't effectively argue feelings.

I believe that the V1 will have an equal or better dial than the Tie Fighter and the lowest generic will be less points than the equivalent Interceptor. My evidence is that the ship looks agile. It has boost. The tv show makes it look agile. The v1 basically takes a Tie Fighter and gives it jump capability. This makes it fragile, which they add shields to compensate. The X1 went with a tank mentality where they add in more shields and a system, but at the cost of mobility.

I see where you're coming from Heychadwick. I don't want to bore the forum by re-posting my argument. It can be found here where Vorpal and I do some number crunching...

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/183754-inquisitors-tie-vs-tie-advanced/page-18

I hope your version of the TAP turns out to be more true than mine. I'm thinking the TAP is going to be the equivalent of the Z95 to the X-wing. Because of the boost action, it already looks like they will be doing more than just reducing the primary attack by one, changing the speed of the greens, and reducing a point of hull. Just how much more though? Other than the addition to the boost... we just don't know.

A new twist to my argument, as to why I believe it will cost more than 16 points at its base, is the value of the top Z95 (19). Again, we see that 7 point spread I've been talking about between top and bottom pilot skills. If we subtract 7 from 25 we get 18. There is an 8 point spread between Vader and the Tempest. Let's argue that The Inquisitor's skill is just as valuable as Vader's (mind you we still don't match up on PS differences as Vader is a 9 and a Tempest is a 2, while The Inquisitor is an 8 and the base is a 2.) that places the base TAP at 17 points.

With Wave 8 I get the feeling that X-Wing is becoming more mainstreamish with this Rebels series stuff ...

Hmmm... if you're looking for artisanal hipster sci-fi, then Star Wars is not going to be your thing...

With Wave 8 I get the feeling that X-Wing is becoming more mainstreamish with this Rebels series stuff ...

Hmmm... if you're looking for artisanal hipster sci-fi, then Star Wars is not going to be your thing...

For that you go with firefly.