I hope that when the new edition is released this forum is cleaned. Old post could be moved to a folder "buhuus and whinies" so that when searching for older posts you wouldn't have to crawl through all of the opinions how this new edition is going to suck. Come on - there's 16 pages of these topic and the game isn't even released yet.

Just an idea though...

Consider myself whining for a new sub-forum

jh

It's ok to criticise game mechanics or the way a game has been introduced. But let's wait with the whininig before we know what we are talking about.

I know that I know nothing - Socrates c. 469 BC–399 BC

And after all I think Jay owes us a session demo video

Armrek said:

Do you have to insert that in every post?

That's kind of his thing, now.

Constructive criticism of game mechanics is great. I've seen little of that, however. Most of what I see boils down to "They changed it! I don't like it because it's different!" At least we've mostly moved beyond the totally false, made-up claims. The game release is still a month out, there's still a lot to learn about it, but somehow a rather vocal subset of players have magically intuited that they hate the game before they've even tried it.

i think everybody has seen enough to know if they are going to play it or not. Any negative comments at this point are a waste of time to read. so I skip most of em.

No offense, but this thread isn't particularly any more useful than those you are ranting against.

chojun said:

its nice to see what people think tho

dvang said:

That being precisely my point.

(Though if admins read the topic they might even consider it. The contest of this thread isn't useful or meaningful in any way.)

Could we also have a subforum for those who are blinding singing the praises of the new edition and claim it will cure cancer?

/sarcasm.

Honestly, that problem is self-solving. The threads won't be posted to again, so they'll drop to the end of the forum. And who bothers reading more than the first few pages of a forum topic list? If they need to find something that badly, that's what the search tool is for.

Honestly I've never managed to find anything I'm searching with "search". And I agree that the posts drop to the bottom where they don't bother. Maybe we should get a "speculation for 3rd edition" subforum. Basicly every topic currently posted is included to that topic.

doc_cthulhu said:

Yeah, but even better would be to ban all those fanatical fanboys who happily cry "hussah" if FFG burps green nurgle slime, into a seperate forum. So that those who have a well versed point of critique (like most old Warhammer fans) dont get bothered in their rantings.

superklaus said:

I don't know about banning, but it would be refreshing with some constructive criticism. For my part I see this new game as any other RPG; you will eventually make house rules no matter how good or bad you think the system is. An RPG is a foundation for gaming and social fun, thats what it is...

Call me childish but:

After all I think Jay owes us a session demo video

Armrek said:

Well constructive criticism is nice idea, and I prefer it usually to ranting, but for this edition it comes too late. Now we have to "eat the toad" (as we in our country say). They will not change anything in the design of the 3rd edition, so one have the choice to like it or to leave it. The only remaining hope is that it will be a financial failure, so they have an somewhat painful reason to remember never to tinker around with a well established rpg system and transforming it in Warhammer: the Gathering.

superklaus said:

And a view like that would have if been shared by the majority of the ones actually buying and playing rpg's, destroyed the rpg industry.

There will always come new "editions" out to popular rpg's. And in a few years a fourth edition of warhammer rpg is likely t come out so long poeple find the warhammer setting to be exiting.

Thankfully, the majority is open to change, either they have been part of it or not.

Don't spoil my trolling thread with constructive criticism!

KjetilKverndokken said:

Do I need to whine a bit more to be part of this thread?

So...people critical of the new version should shut up about it because we haven't seen the final edition yet...

...but rabid fanboys who also haven't seen the final cut should be allowed to keep posting their inane "OMG THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT1!1!!" CRAP?

Uh-huh.

Converse said:

Well, since we haven't seen all the rules to the game it is hard to say either way definitively. However, the point is that people critical of the game are tending to make bold unsubstantiated claims without backing them up, or using incorrect information. If you're going to be critical, offer some constructive comments as to *why* you think something isn't going to work right. Just saying "v2 wasn't broken, they should have just modified v2, but they didn't so v3 sucks" isn't at all constructive (which is a lot of what we're hearing). Also, be open to hearing constructive comments and arguments against your constructive criticism (as should pro-v3 people be willing to hear con-v3 constructive arguments).

Now that I've derailed the thread by being constructive ...

[ CONTENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

Perhaps I haven't been seeing those threads, because I don't recall seeing many of those types of posts. I do know I've seen a couple, usually in a new designer diary comments thread, where I assume it is just an expression of agreement that they like the newly mentioned feature. In any of the threads where people pro-v3 have posted more than once, I can't recall people spamming that sort of non-constructive 'positive' message. Looking at the thread subjects, there aren't any "this is going to rock! OMG best game evar!11!!!" threads where that was the entirety of the post. Many people pro-v3 have attempted to post constructive comments and responses to criticisms.

So ... I'm at a loss as to why and where you are feeling there is rampant fanboyism of the type you describe. Certainly not in any amount that could be construed as biasing the entire forums or threatening to ban people merely because they disagree.

I'm sure there is indeed a certain amount of hypocrisy on the forums, after all these are the offical FFG forums. So, when a diary is posted with a new feature/rule, it is acceptable to just say "this is great!" without explaining what you think is great about the new feature. Whereas, if you say "this sucks!" you are expected to give reasons, and if you don't you are considered just whining. Perhaps this is just a side-effect of a culture where 'innocent until proven guilty' type mentality come into play; Positive is generally accepted as truth/common knowledge (at least initially) and negatives are expected to be backed up with fact or discussion.

Ex: A group of us watch a commercial about water, which claims that water is refreshing. If you were to say "Yes, water is a refreshing drink" and I disagreed, you (and those others listening) would expect me to give a constructive reason why I believed it isn't. They wouldn't be wondering why you agreed it is refreshing. If I didn't give a reason (or gave a bad reason, like "because it isn't Coke"), then a situation arises where my comments and opinions might be construed as pure whining or contrariness. Neither the fact that you agreed that water is refreshing, nor the fact that you think I whining because I didn't provide a constructive answer, means that you are a "fanboy" of water though.

chojun said:

I have not. I have an idea how the new rules work, but only after a playing session will I decide if they work better or worse than v1/v2. Therefore, Armrek's session video demand sounds like a good to me!

And to stay on topic: As it was with v2, the v1-supporters mostly gathered at strike to stun, and it looks like history will repeat itself. So, there's probably already a subforum for whining in another domain

Fine. Here it goes.

It doenst appeal to me cause I find it unappealing. It looks clunky, derived from various other games and like it will be a game for rules lawyers. I think it steps on the GMs and players imagination too much and doesnt fulfill the flavor of the warhammer world as I see it.

Shuffling through cards, reading specialized designer dice with symbols instead of numbers and being forced to follow a party mood-o-meter (if used and not discarded from the box) make the game less appealing to me.

Im an old school role player, been playing for nearly 25 years (as Im sure many others have as well), I like books and dice, not cards and novelty items.

I think the new edition is not friendly to newer players to RPGs who will be (possibly) daunted by the sheer number of cards, tokens, dice, books and counters used in just the BASIC rules and I will probably have to interpret their dice rolls for them everytime they roll.

I like the fact that in the game as it currently stands (2E) I dont have to deal with luck, time, situation and what not all with different dice and codes, but just apply modifiers as I see needed in % + or - modifiers. I can just say "oh thats a +10 modifier" or "you et a +30" instead of sayng "you get a pink love dice, a yellow luck dice, a teal "Go Jackonville Jaguars" dice and a plaid chaos dice." And while after several sessions and readings of the rules Im sure for most that may become second nature, but most of my players dont invest as much time into learning rules as I do, they learn the basics. "Oh, I roll this and try to roll lower then this, got it!"

And yes, I like the old game for the memories, fondness and attachment I have for it.

So I hope it fails as I hope all things I am against fail.

Peacekeeper_b said:

wow....i must say most of the time i enjoy seeing your side...but now all i see is a conseaded brat.....you dont like it so its not good enough for anyone...great way to look at things.....i have a great idea for you ( i respect that you have an opinion and your more then welcome to have one) shut up! thats just a poor way to look at things! i hate getting personal in forums but you really are just here to degrade the game.....we get it....you dont like STOP TELLING US!!!! if you have somthing constructive then fine! say it but all i ever see from you latly is nothing but bad mouthing and arrogant self-centered posts about how you just hate this game and you want it to fail...well the majority of us like that game and i just dont care to see winie posts like this....BE CONSTRUCTIVE WITH YOUR CRITISIUM AND NOT A JERK! just cuz you dont like it doesnt mean LOTS of other dont

Farin said:

mmm... actually the majority are hoping they like v3

But feel free to continue to hype the game beyond what it will deliver.