Current top table at gencon tourney:

Imperial versus Imperial,not a squadron to be found.

And the other is similar except one of the lists is the Corvette spam. Squadrons? No.

Oh fooey. I was hoping that a reb squad build would make it's way to the top.

I figured that would occur. Ships are more stable for launching damage.

Do you have a top 8 breakdown for what sides are in there?

Hmmmm I wonder how many Imperial to Rebel players there were. . .

Ah well. Competitions skew the norms regardless. If you don't bring squadrons, you should have an easier time coordinating the assets you have brought to the battle. Not very Star Wars feeling to me that way though.

Three imperials and one rebel vette swarm were the top four at the time I received the report. You can bet I'm going to grill Steve when we record the next ep in the next couple days.

STEVE! WE WANT INFORMATION!

Ah well. Competitions skew the norms regardless. If you don't bring squadrons, you should have an easier time coordinating the assets you have brought to the battle. Not very Star Wars feeling to me that way though.

Yes squadron require much aditional brain power, carefull positioning to engage or avoid beeing engaged, positioning in the way of enemy ships to get shots and avoiding running over your own squadrons with your own ships. Without squadrons the game is much lighter on the brain.

Also if you take a ship instead of squadrons you might lose a bit of firepower but you gain aditional activation and more shields/hull on the table (seems important when to get to the top youn eed to pretty much pull multiple 10:0 wins)

I'm shocked that at least one Rhymer list didn't make it. They tend to shred people who don't bring fighters to counter them.

If only I had enough money to have gone...easy first place.

If only I had enough money to have gone...easy first place.

This makes me happy the more I think about it...the more people that think squadrons are not good the easier my wins will be with my Rebel heavy bomber builds.

If only I had enough money to have gone...easy first place.

You and me both which reminds me I need to get my Vassal updated so we can battle it out

For sure. Let me know.

This makes me happy the more I think about it...the more people that think squadrons are not good the easier my wins will be with my Rebel heavy bomber builds.

Amen. I find the group-think of these people really sad: they take the popular opinion of "I'm lazy and think ships are better/cooler so we'll all agree to not take squadrons" and run.

Sorry, but any list with balanced squad use will have a massive advantage over these bad lists. Not only that, anyone who takes FFGs poor advice of 60+ points on bombers will almost auto-win the tournament (then lose to balanced list).

Honestly im looking foward to FFG'S cards coming with the new wave, as we got flight controllers in the VSD expansion maybe the ISD will bring another offensive retrofit that buffs bombers (probly in the MC80 actually) or just titles that affect the squadron game, which would make FC even more interessing for squadron superiority.

For me ive been running a reb list with 1 of each ship and then 3Xs and 2As so I believe that in a tournament with only ships looking for raw power, the free dices coming from them would really help taking down a few glads and then maneuvering outside of the VSD's range. (3 reds at .67 dmg and 2 black at .75 better in that situation than another cr90 when you can use them as a screen of dice that the glads are coming strait at IMO)

But hey if the pros do that we squadron lovers (i mean they're not core to my list but I love having them) will have to find better ways to use our points into squadrons wisely, to counterbalance our lack of firepower.

The issue that they tournament players are coming up with is that those squadrons won't matter if all your ships get destroyed.

You can say that no squadrons will lose to your builds but all I see are 2 ship builds that I can take apart by dismantling your main carrier.

Now it is not guarenteed but I believe that is the case.

The issue that they tournament players are coming up with is that those squadrons won't matter if all your ships get destroyed.

You can say that no squadrons will lose to your builds but all I see are 2 ship builds that I can take apart by dismantling your main carrier.

Now it is not guarenteed but I believe that is the case.

I do agree with you but most people just run their carriers right into the mouth of the enemy and its those people that die horribly...I rarely, if ever do that. If I am dumb enough to do that then I deserve to lose. I am not saying that my carrier builds are unstoppable but most people who play me with them dread playing me.

2 ship builds really suffer vs 4+ ships builds, their objective is to table you qickly and they dont care how many ships they lose but one. I personally play rebels with 80-100 points in squadrons and 2-3 ships (recenlty its usually 3).

Doing so or not matter Littles, your carrier is either a VSD that can be caught easily or a Assault Frigate which will after activating your squadrons should be out of range. You get 2 decent attacks in at best before those squadrons need a carrier support again which means you come to me and I blast you.

This will change when the MC30 comes out because they can likely go speed 4 which means they will set up for some horrendous shots that will cripple carriers.

Once again my thoughts.

Now 3 X-Wings and 2 A-Wings is 64 points. That is a CR90 imo and I can still take Tycho to run interference when I need. That is how I look at it.

2 ship builds really suffer vs 4+ ships builds, their objective is to table you qickly and they dont care how many ships they lose but one. I personally play rebels with 80-100 points in squadrons and 2-3 ships (recenlty its usually 3).

Doing so or not matter Littles, your carrier is either a VSD that can be caught easily or a Assault Frigate which will after activating your squadrons should be out of range. You get 2 decent attacks in at best before those squadrons need a carrier support again which means you come to me and I blast you.

This will change when the MC30 comes out because they can likely go speed 4 which means they will set up for some horrendous shots that will cripple carriers.

Once again my thoughts.

Now 3 X-Wings and 2 A-Wings is 64 points. That is a CR90 imo and I can still take Tycho to run interference when I need. That is how I look at it.

I have a friend who runs an extremely effective three neb squadron list. He takes 6 Y wings and 3 X wings and basically uses them as a minefield while he snipes with his nebs.

2 ship builds really suffer vs 4+ ships builds, their objective is to table you qickly and they dont care how many ships they lose but one. I personally play rebels with 80-100 points in squadrons and 2-3 ships (recenlty its usually 3).

CR90's and Neb-B eh? So light carriers at best which means once I take out your 4 ships I win.

I dont undertsnad

I dont play 4 ships but 2 or 3 as mentioned. Recently i bring 1Af 1Neb 1 Cr + squadrons

There isn't enough room to do what people are claiming to do with all-ship builds. It's really that simple. Perhaps some people will get really good at maneuvering their swarm of ships, and be able to line up tons of double arc shots on demand consistently; but one blocking move from your opponent can bring your swarm to a halt.

It is funny, to me, that people claim squadrons are mentally taxing: mirroring X-Wing in that most people like to take 2 powerful ships since 8 TIEs drains you mentally. Yet this is completely wrong. Squadrons are the thing in armada that give you freedom. Running 5+ ships is like running 8 TIEs in X-Wing, only much much worse...at least to fly well. You have to fly perfectly to bring all the dice you bought to bear effectively, and any mishap will set you back.

And, Lyraeus, you say that the goal is to smash my two ships? Of course, my goal is to smash all yours. I don't play for points with my balanced list, I play to table. I make it happen 3/4 of the time. The only all-ship list that annoys (doesn't even worry me, I just want my 10-0) are corevette swarms. They are like the Warhammer Fantasy Dwarves of SW: Armada in denying your opponent real wins.

I don't quite understand how people can take a well-established meta from X-Wing and come over to another game with similar objective realities (kill the ship for the points: favors fat turrets in X-Wing) and basically throw the concepts out the window in Armada cuz they think they're extra clever (when they're the opposite imo).

The bottom line is that you need to effectively use the points you spent on your list. A balanced list of: ships, upgrades, fighters, and bombers is the only way to pull this off. It is amazing, for me, to finally see a wargame that is set up in the exact way I wanted to play one...balance and options. Armada is the first game of this type to actually pull this off. X-Wing failed, but got close. 40k is the worst. Warhammer Fantasy is bad. Haven't heard of it in all the other games like Maulefaux, etc. So i'm just sitting here happy as a clam, seeing how this game is designed and wondering why everyone things they can play "wrong" and it be OK?

Time will tell, but I am more than confident that balanced fleets will win out to powergaming-theory lists.

That works but I feel like the 99 points are wasted if they are minefields. That is 99 more points I can bring to bear on you.

Look at it from the perspective of force, if I have 290 points in ships and you only have 201 or so, I have more firework to use every turn. Squadrons on the other hand need to be heeded into place.

Doing so or not matter Littles, your carrier is either a VSD that can be caught easily or a Assault Frigate which will after activating your squadrons should be out of range. You get 2 decent attacks in at best before those squadrons need a carrier support again which means you come to me and I blast you.

This will change when the MC30 comes out because they can likely go speed 4 which means they will set up for some horrendous shots that will cripple carriers.

Once again my thoughts.

Now 3 X-Wings and 2 A-Wings is 64 points. That is a CR90 imo and I can still take Tycho to run interference when I need. That is how I look at it.

Matter of fact is, I never use my ships as carriers, they are all made to kill your ships, my squadrons are a screen against bombers but against an all ship list, i just position them how I need turn 1-2 covering my flanks where the glads are coming and then they get their shots in the squadron phase and chip away at your glads, I can also use leia on my cr90 to get 1 timely squadron command onto a whale of my neb to finish off one of the glads (that of course depends on the situation)

Doing so or not matter Littles, your carrier is either a VSD that can be caught easily or a Assault Frigate which will after activating your squadrons should be out of range. You get 2 decent attacks in at best before those squadrons need a carrier support again which means you come to me and I blast you.

...

Bold mine: this is another massive issue people seem to have. They think that I need more than 2 solid volleys of squadron dice to pay for them. I can assure you that this is a very bad mistake in perception.