So, we all know that the Defender, despite its fluff as probably the most dangerous starfighter in the galaxy, is a little underwhelming in X-Wing. Part of the reason for that, I think, is that X-Wing just doesn't properly simuate the Defenders full capabilities. The Defender is better than a normal TIE for a bunch of reasons, but primarily because it just has so mnay more features than most other variants; in the books, a TIE Defender has:

• Strong shields
• Heavy Damage output
• Great manoeuvrability
• Missiles
• An Ion Cannon
• A Tractor beam

Now, finally, we have all of those as in-game, but, at present, they can;t all be loaded onto one ship. Hence, I propse the following title:

Why would this be good? Several reasons:

Firstly, it buffs the Defender in a potent but subtle way, and in a way that hasn't, so far, been used to tweak any other ships. It's similar to IG-88 B's ability, but made different by the inability to deal damage with the cannon, which will encourage the use of ion cannons and tractor beams. The ability to do a traditional 3 or 4 dice atack (at range 1), and then potentially deal an ion token or a tractor beam token (or even a stress token I suppose) as well makes the Defender potentially more powerful than any of the other heavy hitters out there - among small based ships (assuming no EPTs and excluding the HLC/prockets, which the Defender could carry anyway), only Corran, the TIE Phantom, Advanced Proton Torpedoes and theoretically a TLT Y-Wing with the BTL-A4 title could do more damage in a single turn, and none could do that damage and add a control element. That seems appropriate for what is supposed to be an incredibly dangerous starfighter.

Secondly, by encouraging the use of control cannons (as opposed to HLCs, Manglers or Autoblasters) it promotes the use of fluffy Defender armament, and helping the game (and the metagame) adhere closer to the SW universe rather than just MinMaxing everything is, IMO, a good thing.

Thirdly, and somewhat similarly, it allows the true Defender from the books to show up ingame for people who enjoy flying thematic ships and lists. Consider my list of points from above:

• Strong shields and heavy damage output
  • Already provided by the base ships 3s in these categories.
• Great manoeuvrability
  • Add the Twin Ion Engine Mk 2 card for 1 point
• Missiles
  • Add a concussion missile for 4 points
• An Ion Cannon and a Tractor beam
  • Add the one point title, three point ion cannon and the one point tractor beam, and then actually use the two cannons thanks to the extra firing opportunity.

All together, that's 10 points of upgrades, (i.e. a 40 point Delta Squadron pilot). You could only fly two of them in any given list and sure, they might not be meta-defining in any way. They might not even be super competetive. But they would be fluffy, potent little ships that I think fans of the Defender would like to put on the board purely as fans, if not as serious tournament players.

Integrated Cannons

TIE Defender Only. Title.

0 Points.

When you perform an attack that hits with your Primary Weapon, after dealing damage, you may apply any non-damage effects from your equipped Cannon upgrade.

Maybe needs to be reworded, but it'd let an Ion Defender push Ion tokens via primary attacks, or a Tractor Defender do the same with Tractor Beam tokens, or even Stress from Flechette Cannons.

You could maybe even skip the non-damage bit. Adding an additional damage and an ion token after dealing damage from a primary weapon attack might not be too out of place, or a damage and a stress, and Tractor Beams do no damage anyway. Given the timing, it wouldn't affect you in any way if you have a Mangler or a HLC, since their effects modify your dice, and the title applies after damage is dealt.

If, and I hope we do, get a Defender fix it will need to be a zero or negative cost. This ship is way over cost. At 30 base points, it should have come with a cannon, not just the ability to place a cannon. Want to know how dangerous this ship is with a cannon? Fly two Delta's with HLC and Jonus. If the dice are nice (and Jonus helps with this) it eats through just about everything!

Cross posting this from the other already ongoing Defender fix thread.:

I would go with a title that gives the following: "After attacking with your primary weapon you may immediately make an attack with an equipped secondary weapon against the same target, then unless the secondary weapon instructs you to discard it after use receive one stress token. You cannot do this if you are already stressed."

The defender really isn't that much over costed for what it does, particularly the aces, it just needs a way to be able to make use of all of its upgrade options and its high base stats at the same time.

The defender really isn't that much over costed for what it does, particularly the aces, it just needs a way to be able to make use of all of its upgrade options and its high base stats at the same time.

Many, including myself, with argue with you on this one. At 30 points you're mostly paying for green dice. (...and green dice suck!) The Defender, with that white K-turn, is an amazing cannon platform. It is GREATLY limited by its dial, its cost, and its lack of evade action. (I've seen Defenders go down QUICK!)

Furthermore, it's two aces have almost ZERO senergy with each other or the Imperial fleet. Passing out focus is not a common ability of the Empire. TL is also not a very popular action. The fixed TIE Advanced and the new TIE Adv. Prototype will help fix this. Still, the pilot abilities of the Defender aces would be used to a better extent in the Rebel fleet.

The defender really isn't that much over costed for what it does, particularly the aces, it just needs a way to be able to make use of all of its upgrade options and its high base stats at the same time.

Many, including myself, with argue with you on this one. At 30 points you're mostly paying for green dice. (...and green dice suck!) The Defender, with that white K-turn, is an amazing cannon platform. It is GREATLY limited by its dial, its cost, and its lack of evade action. (I've seen Defenders go down QUICK!)

Furthermore, it's two aces have almost ZERO senergy with each other or the Imperial fleet. Passing out focus is not a common ability of the Empire. TL is also not a very popular action. The fixed TIE Advanced and the new TIE Adv. Prototype will help fix this. Still, the pilot abilities of the Defender aces would be used to a better extent in the Rebel fleet.

Fleet Officer is an imperial only upgrade that hands out focus and you can put one on a Omicron lamba for one point less then a Storm Squadron pilot. With the new 1 point MK2 mod if they got a one or two point title that let them fire both primary and secondary weapons in the same turn then making them any cheaper would be extremely overpowered.

The defender really isn't that much over costed for what it does, particularly the aces, it just needs a way to be able to make use of all of its upgrade options and its high base stats at the same time.

Many, including myself, with argue with you on this one. At 30 points you're mostly paying for green dice. (...and green dice suck!) The Defender, with that white K-turn, is an amazing cannon platform. It is GREATLY limited by its dial, its cost, and its lack of evade action. (I've seen Defenders go down QUICK!)

Furthermore, it's two aces have almost ZERO senergy with each other or the Imperial fleet. Passing out focus is not a common ability of the Empire. TL is also not a very popular action. The fixed TIE Advanced and the new TIE Adv. Prototype will help fix this. Still, the pilot abilities of the Defender aces would be used to a better extent in the Rebel fleet.

Fleet Officer is an imperial only upgrade that hands out focus and you can put one on a Omicron lamba for one point less then a Storm Squadron pilot. With the new 1 point MK2 mod if they got a one or two point title that let them fire both primary and secondary weapons in the same turn then making them any cheaper would be extremely overpowered.

I did not say there was NO WAY to hand out focus, I said it is not common, and it isn't. It is a VERY common attribute in the Rebel fleet, which is why Rex (and Vessery) feel so out of place in the Imperial Navy.

Really, a title that gave the Defender a discount on Cannon upgrades would be great.

As for Rexler, if there were an upgrade that would be similar to RecSpec, I think he'd be in much better shape.

Gain a cannon slot.

When you hit with a Secondary Weapon, you may cancel all die results and make a primary weapon attack. (the secondary weapon is still considered a hit)

[...]

Fleet Officer is an imperial only upgrade that hands out focus and you can put one on a Omicron lamba for one point less then a Storm Squadron pilot. With the new 1 point MK2 mod if they got a one or two point title that let them fire both primary and secondary weapons in the same turn then making them any cheaper would be extremely overpowered.

I myself am not advocating to make the defender cheaper, just that whatever fix costs zero points and cannot go negative like Chaardan Refit. I do think that unless they get more hp or kill things faster they won't see play because a HLC Vessery costs more than a plain Patrol Leader. When you compare the 3 attack turret and 16 hp to a 4 attack secondary with 6 hp and 3 evade, you clearly see that when bad dice occur you will lose him in ~3 attacks whereas the PL will still be alive. I would expect a ship like that to have killer offense because it can very quickly get wiped off the table when the dice go bad. The faster you remove enemies off the table the better your survivability, so if the defender can't stick around on hp, evade tokens and evade dice then it needs to remove enemies faster than it is now.

The defender really isn't that much over costed for what it does, particularly the aces, it just needs a way to be able to make use of all of its upgrade options and its high base stats at the same time.

Many, including myself, with argue with you on this one. At 30 points you're mostly paying for green dice. (...and green dice suck!) The Defender, with that white K-turn, is an amazing cannon platform. It is GREATLY limited by its dial, its cost, and its lack of evade action. (I've seen Defenders go down QUICK!)

Furthermore, it's two aces have almost ZERO senergy with each other or the Imperial fleet. Passing out focus is not a common ability of the Empire. TL is also not a very popular action. The fixed TIE Advanced and the new TIE Adv. Prototype will help fix this. Still, the pilot abilities of the Defender aces would be used to a better extent in the Rebel fleet.

Fleet Officer is an imperial only upgrade that hands out focus and you can put one on a Omicron lamba for one point less then a Storm Squadron pilot. With the new 1 point MK2 mod if they got a one or two point title that let them fire both primary and secondary weapons in the same turn then making them any cheaper would be extremely overpowered.

I did not say there was NO WAY to hand out focus, I said it is not common, and it isn't. It is a VERY common attribute in the Rebel fleet, which is why Rex (and Vessery) feel so out of place in the Imperial Navy.

If the defender had an evade action ( or if MK 2 engines gave an evade action) and Rex's ability was "...you may spend an evade token to flip those cards faceup." Then Rex could PTL and use focus/evade completely on offense for that round.

My idea:

A 0 point title called "Linked Cannon Battery" that reads "Your upgrade bar gains an additional cannon slot. If you equip this upgrade card you must equip two different cannons. When attacking you may perform two different secondary weapon attacks."

The most powerful cannon attack would be HLC and Mangler cannon for a grand total of 7 damage unabated. Corran Horn can do 8 in range 1 and while he can't attack the next round he can regain a shield and take an evade token and come back and do it again with FCS.

Integrated Cannons

TIE Defender Only. Title.

0 Points.

When you perform an attack that hits with your Primary Weapon, after dealing damage, you may apply any non-damage effects from your equipped Cannon upgrade.

Maybe needs to be reworded, but it'd let an Ion Defender push Ion tokens via primary attacks, or a Tractor Defender do the same with Tractor Beam tokens, or even Stress from Flechette Cannons.

You could maybe even skip the non-damage bit. Adding an additional damage and an ion token after dealing damage from a primary weapon attack might not be too out of place, or a damage and a stress, and Tractor Beams do no damage anyway. Given the timing, it wouldn't affect you in any way if you have a Mangler or a HLC, since their effects modify your dice, and the title applies after damage is dealt.

The precise wording isn't significant - what matters is the ability to have a full primary weapon attack and deal a cannon effect token as well. I;d disagree about keeping the damage from the cannon attack in play though - that seems like it would be a pretty potent boost, more than the defender really needs IMO.

If, and I hope we do, get a Defender fix it will need to be a zero or negative cost. This ship is way over cost. At 30 base points, it should have come with a cannon, not just the ability to place a cannon. Want to know how dangerous this ship is with a cannon? Fly two Delta's with HLC and Jonus. If the dice are nice (and Jonus helps with this) it eats through just about everything!

I'm not sure about recosting it, to be honest. Assuming you used it to load up with an ion cannon only, this title would cost four points. Major Juggler estimates the value of the ability to put an ion token on an opponent to be 2 points, so from that very basic analysis, yes, it's overcosted. However, for one more point, you gain the ability to add the tractor beam, and you gain the tactical option of choosing which cannon, ion or tractor, will be more damaging to your opponent on a turn by turn basis. I think that there's enough value there to justify the one point cost.

Cross posting this from the other already ongoing Defender fix thread.:

I would go with a title that gives the following: "After attacking with your primary weapon you may immediately make an attack with an equipped secondary weapon against the same target, then unless the secondary weapon instructs you to discard it after use receive one stress token. You cannot do this if you are already stressed."

The defender really isn't that much over costed for what it does, particularly the aces, it just needs a way to be able to make use of all of its upgrade options and its high base stats at the same time.

That would be an extraordinary boost with Twin Ion Engines Mk 2, given the amount of green that the Defender would have on its dial with that mod. With that many stress shedding options, you'd be effectively giving the ship a Corran style double tap every single turn, more than doubling it's attack power (because nobody would ever use anything other than a HLC or Mangler cannon)

Gain a cannon slot.

When you hit with a Secondary Weapon, you may cancel all die results and make a primary weapon attack. (the secondary weapon is still considered a hit)

The precise wording is important for an upgrade like this. Ion cannons and Flechette cannons already instruct you to cancel all dice results, then deal damage. That one additional damage would be a major boost to the Defender - consider the Punishing One title that FFG have just announced - it adds 1 extra red dice per turn to the ship and costs a full 12 points. Adding a full secondary weapon attack (i.e., an ion or flechette cannon, with their damage intact) would have to cost an awful lot, or risk giving the defender much more of a boost than it needs.

My idea:

A 0 point title called "Linked Cannon Battery" that reads "Your upgrade bar gains an additional cannon slot. If you equip this upgrade card you must equip two different cannons. When attacking you may perform two different secondary weapon attacks."

The most powerful cannon attack would be HLC and Mangler cannon for a grand total of 7 damage unabated. Corran Horn can do 8 in range 1 and while he can't attack the next round he can regain a shield and take an evade token and come back and do it again with FCS.

That would buff the defender by an enormous amount, way too much IMO, and it doesn't really do anything to promote the game/book loadout - as you say, it would become a pure HLC/Mangler carrier.

Integrated Cannons

TIE Defender Only. Title.

0 Points.

When you perform an attack that hits with your Primary Weapon, after dealing damage, you may apply any non-damage effects from your equipped Cannon upgrade.

Maybe needs to be reworded, but it'd let an Ion Defender push Ion tokens via primary attacks, or a Tractor Defender do the same with Tractor Beam tokens, or even Stress from Flechette Cannons.

You could maybe even skip the non-damage bit. Adding an additional damage and an ion token after dealing damage from a primary weapon attack might not be too out of place, or a damage and a stress, and Tractor Beams do no damage anyway. Given the timing, it wouldn't affect you in any way if you have a Mangler or a HLC, since their effects modify your dice, and the title applies after damage is dealt.

I've been thinking about this on and off for a while now, and the best way to word it I could come up with is as follows.

Integrated Cannons

"Your (cannon) attacks are now affected by range modifiers. If an attack with a (cannon) hits, ignore all instructions to cancel dice or add damage results."

There are a few implications here. You'd still be making Cannon Attacks, but they would be functionally the same as a Primary attack as long as the cannon has an attack value of 3. So extra attack dice at R1, and extra defense dice at R3. This would be effectively the same as adding Stress and Ion effects to primary attacks.

Expose and other things that affect Primary weapons would not work on this attack, but the Jonus effect would.

Munitions Failure critical would remove your cannon, so stop the effect, but the Weapons Malfunction crit would have no effect until you lost the cannon.

It would make the Autoblaster Cannon a 4 attack dice, which might make it more appealing.

It nerfs the HLC, so don't take it if you want to use a HLC.

I think an argument could be made for a 2pt or 3pt discount for any (cannon) upgrades, so you might even consider taking it with a HLC, but at the moment, I've left it off.

My two cents on this... Look at the IG-88.

It's a bit more durable and has the more useful dial even considering the white K.

Other than that we can very well compare the two ships. The real difference lies in the options and the generally available pilot skills.

Now the success of the IG lies in a very good combination of dial, options and pilot skills. You can make the ship super maneuvrable, hard to hit and pretty hard-hitting.

And it feels like the high cost of these combos of gear is gladly paid and successful on many tournaments. While the Defender in contrast feels really useless.

The Mk2 Ion engine will fix one part of this and make the dials comparable in power level (not identical, just playing in the same league...)

After all if we consider Vessery vs an IG the difference is that Vessery at same cost and PS with Mk2 Engines, has less durability, a less good Pilot ability and worse options. His unique mechanic (white k) versus IGs (general usage of pilot abilities plus segnors) is a close call but i'd give that advantage to the IG as well. He also lacks evade which is big on an expensive ship like this. One advantage of the Defender is of course its small base, but i really dont see it as a bad thing as IG can use it as an advantage while boosting pretty often and is faster than other ships thanks to this.

So after a fair comparison, i would really argue that the Defender and by that i mean all of its pilots are pretty surely overcosted by 2-3 points. They have disadvantages in too many categories against a top tier ship even with MK2 engine as you can see.

If they really want to fix the ship it needs some discount, preferably in the cannon slot or at least like you say a powerful ability, like firing cannon and primary in the same turn!

why not allow it to use the tractor beam to "hold" ships increasing hit potential. or to limit enemy turns or movement that turn to get a similar effect. or to allow it to steer munitions increasing accuracy? of course that should apply to all ships that have that ability. also don't know the mechanics yet but it should be less effective on BIG base ships if its on a small base ship. just my 3 cents worth.. also as a bomber buff what about the ability to MOVE bombs/mines??

So, we all know that the Defender, despite its fluff as probably the most dangerous starfighter in the galaxy, is a little underwhelming in X-Wing. Part of the reason for that, I think, is that X-Wing just doesn't properly simuate the Defenders full capabilities. The Defender is better than a normal TIE for a bunch of reasons, but primarily because it just has so mnay more features than most other variants; in the books, a TIE Defender has:

• Strong shields
• Heavy Damage output
• Great manoeuvrability
• Missiles
• An Ion Cannon
• A Tractor beam

Now, finally, we have all of those as in-game, but, at present, they can;t all be loaded onto one ship. Hence, I propse the following title:

Why would this be good? Several reasons:

Firstly, it buffs the Defender in a potent but subtle way, and in a way that hasn't, so far, been used to tweak any other ships. It's similar to IG-88 B's ability, but made different by the inability to deal damage with the cannon, which will encourage the use of ion cannons and tractor beams. The ability to do a traditional 3 or 4 dice atack (at range 1), and then potentially deal an ion token or a tractor beam token (or even a stress token I suppose) as well makes the Defender potentially more powerful than any of the other heavy hitters out there - among small based ships (assuming no EPTs and excluding the HLC/prockets, which the Defender could carry anyway), only Corran, the TIE Phantom, Advanced Proton Torpedoes and theoretically a TLT Y-Wing with the BTL-A4 title could do more damage in a single turn, and none could do that damage and add a control element. That seems appropriate for what is supposed to be an incredibly dangerous starfighter.

Secondly, by encouraging the use of control cannons (as opposed to HLCs, Manglers or Autoblasters) it promotes the use of fluffy Defender armament, and helping the game (and the metagame) adhere closer to the SW universe rather than just MinMaxing everything is, IMO, a good thing.

Thirdly, and somewhat similarly, it allows the true Defender from the books to show up ingame for people who enjoy flying thematic ships and lists. Consider my list of points from above:

• Strong shields and heavy damage output
  • Already provided by the base ships 3s in these categories.
• Great manoeuvrability
  • Add the Twin Ion Engine Mk 2 card for 1 point
• Missiles
  • Add a concussion missile for 4 points
• An Ion Cannon and a Tractor beam
  • Add the one point title, three point ion cannon and the one point tractor beam, and then actually use the two cannons thanks to the extra firing opportunity.

All together, that's 10 points of upgrades, (i.e. a 40 point Delta Squadron pilot). You could only fly two of them in any given list and sure, they might not be meta-defining in any way. They might not even be super competetive. But they would be fluffy, potent little ships that I think fans of the Defender would like to put on the board purely as fans, if not as serious tournament players.

I like it. I like the idea of being able to do the non-damage effects of a canon as well as the damage from your normal attack, and I like that you still have to roll for both.

I'm not sure about the double cannons though. Shooting first with a Heavy Laser Cannon, then dealing out ion or stress tokens, is a bit much, so I would restrict it to "after attacking with your primary weapon".

So, we all know that the Defender, despite its fluff as probably the most dangerous starfighter in the galaxy, is a little underwhelming in X-Wing. Part of the reason for that, I think, is that X-Wing just doesn't properly simuate the Defenders full capabilities. The Defender is better than a normal TIE for a bunch of reasons, but primarily because it just has so mnay more features than most other variants; in the books, a TIE Defender has:

• Strong shields
• Heavy Damage output
• Great manoeuvrability
• Missiles
• An Ion Cannon
• A Tractor beam

Now, finally, we have all of those as in-game, but, at present, they can;t all be loaded onto one ship. Hence, I propse the following title:

Why would this be good? Several reasons:

Firstly, it buffs the Defender in a potent but subtle way, and in a way that hasn't, so far, been used to tweak any other ships. It's similar to IG-88 B's ability, but made different by the inability to deal damage with the cannon, which will encourage the use of ion cannons and tractor beams. The ability to do a traditional 3 or 4 dice atack (at range 1), and then potentially deal an ion token or a tractor beam token (or even a stress token I suppose) as well makes the Defender potentially more powerful than any of the other heavy hitters out there - among small based ships (assuming no EPTs and excluding the HLC/prockets, which the Defender could carry anyway), only Corran, the TIE Phantom, Advanced Proton Torpedoes and theoretically a TLT Y-Wing with the BTL-A4 title could do more damage in a single turn, and none could do that damage and add a control element. That seems appropriate for what is supposed to be an incredibly dangerous starfighter.

Secondly, by encouraging the use of control cannons (as opposed to HLCs, Manglers or Autoblasters) it promotes the use of fluffy Defender armament, and helping the game (and the metagame) adhere closer to the SW universe rather than just MinMaxing everything is, IMO, a good thing.

Thirdly, and somewhat similarly, it allows the true Defender from the books to show up ingame for people who enjoy flying thematic ships and lists. Consider my list of points from above:

• Strong shields and heavy damage output
  • Already provided by the base ships 3s in these categories.
• Great manoeuvrability
  • Add the Twin Ion Engine Mk 2 card for 1 point
• Missiles
  • Add a concussion missile for 4 points
• An Ion Cannon and a Tractor beam
  • Add the one point title, three point ion cannon and the one point tractor beam, and then actually use the two cannons thanks to the extra firing opportunity.

All together, that's 10 points of upgrades, (i.e. a 40 point Delta Squadron pilot). You could only fly two of them in any given list and sure, they might not be meta-defining in any way. They might not even be super competetive. But they would be fluffy, potent little ships that I think fans of the Defender would like to put on the board purely as fans, if not as serious tournament players.

I like it. I like the idea of being able to do the non-damage effects of a canon as well as the damage from your normal attack, and I like that you still have to roll for both.

I'm not sure about the double cannons though. Shooting first with a Heavy Laser Cannon, then dealing out ion or stress tokens, is a bit much, so I would restrict it to "after attacking with your primary weapon".

That's the reason I reversed the order in my version, while cleaning up the wording.

"Gain a secnd Cannon slot.

When you hit with a missile or cannon Secondary weapon, you may cancel all dice results. (the attack is still a hit) If you do, you may make a primary weapon attack at the same target."

So, we all know that the Defender, despite its fluff as probably the most dangerous starfighter in the galaxy, is a little underwhelming in X-Wing. Part of the reason for that, I think, is that X-Wing just doesn't properly simuate the Defenders full capabilities. The Defender is better than a normal TIE for a bunch of reasons, but primarily because it just has so mnay more features than most other variants; in the books, a TIE Defender has:

• Strong shields
• Heavy Damage output
• Great manoeuvrability
• Missiles
• An Ion Cannon
• A Tractor beam

Now, finally, we have all of those as in-game, but, at present, they can;t all be loaded onto one ship. Hence, I propse the following title:

Why would this be good? Several reasons:

Firstly, it buffs the Defender in a potent but subtle way, and in a way that hasn't, so far, been used to tweak any other ships. It's similar to IG-88 B's ability, but made different by the inability to deal damage with the cannon, which will encourage the use of ion cannons and tractor beams. The ability to do a traditional 3 or 4 dice atack (at range 1), and then potentially deal an ion token or a tractor beam token (or even a stress token I suppose) as well makes the Defender potentially more powerful than any of the other heavy hitters out there - among small based ships (assuming no EPTs and excluding the HLC/prockets, which the Defender could carry anyway), only Corran, the TIE Phantom, Advanced Proton Torpedoes and theoretically a TLT Y-Wing with the BTL-A4 title could do more damage in a single turn, and none could do that damage and add a control element. That seems appropriate for what is supposed to be an incredibly dangerous starfighter.

Secondly, by encouraging the use of control cannons (as opposed to HLCs, Manglers or Autoblasters) it promotes the use of fluffy Defender armament, and helping the game (and the metagame) adhere closer to the SW universe rather than just MinMaxing everything is, IMO, a good thing.

Thirdly, and somewhat similarly, it allows the true Defender from the books to show up ingame for people who enjoy flying thematic ships and lists. Consider my list of points from above:

• Strong shields and heavy damage output
  • Already provided by the base ships 3s in these categories.
• Great manoeuvrability
  • Add the Twin Ion Engine Mk 2 card for 1 point
• Missiles
  • Add a concussion missile for 4 points
• An Ion Cannon and a Tractor beam
  • Add the one point title, three point ion cannon and the one point tractor beam, and then actually use the two cannons thanks to the extra firing opportunity.

All together, that's 10 points of upgrades, (i.e. a 40 point Delta Squadron pilot). You could only fly two of them in any given list and sure, they might not be meta-defining in any way. They might not even be super competetive. But they would be fluffy, potent little ships that I think fans of the Defender would like to put on the board purely as fans, if not as serious tournament players.

I like it. I like the idea of being able to do the non-damage effects of a canon as well as the damage from your normal attack, and I like that you still have to roll for both.

I'm not sure about the double cannons though. Shooting first with a Heavy Laser Cannon, then dealing out ion or stress tokens, is a bit much, so I would restrict it to "after attacking with your primary weapon".

That's the reason I reversed the order in my version, while cleaning up the wording.

"Gain a secnd Cannon slot.

When you hit with a missile or cannon Secondary weapon, you may cancel all dice results. (the attack is still a hit) If you do, you may make a primary weapon attack at the same target."

Aah, I yeah, that's the same isn't it. I had it in my head there was something different about yours (other than including missiles), but I can't remember what I thought it was.

So, we all know that the Defender, despite its fluff as probably the most dangerous starfighter in the galaxy, is a little underwhelming in X-Wing. Part of the reason for that, I think, is that X-Wing just doesn't properly simuate the Defenders full capabilities. The Defender is better than a normal TIE for a bunch of reasons, but primarily because it just has so mnay more features than most other variants; in the books, a TIE Defender has:

• Strong shields
• Heavy Damage output
• Great manoeuvrability
• Missiles
• An Ion Cannon
• A Tractor beam

Now, finally, we have all of those as in-game, but, at present, they can;t all be loaded onto one ship. Hence, I propse the following title:

Why would this be good? Several reasons:

Firstly, it buffs the Defender in a potent but subtle way, and in a way that hasn't, so far, been used to tweak any other ships. It's similar to IG-88 B's ability, but made different by the inability to deal damage with the cannon, which will encourage the use of ion cannons and tractor beams. The ability to do a traditional 3 or 4 dice atack (at range 1), and then potentially deal an ion token or a tractor beam token (or even a stress token I suppose) as well makes the Defender potentially more powerful than any of the other heavy hitters out there - among small based ships (assuming no EPTs and excluding the HLC/prockets, which the Defender could carry anyway), only Corran, the TIE Phantom, Advanced Proton Torpedoes and theoretically a TLT Y-Wing with the BTL-A4 title could do more damage in a single turn, and none could do that damage and add a control element. That seems appropriate for what is supposed to be an incredibly dangerous starfighter.

Secondly, by encouraging the use of control cannons (as opposed to HLCs, Manglers or Autoblasters) it promotes the use of fluffy Defender armament, and helping the game (and the metagame) adhere closer to the SW universe rather than just MinMaxing everything is, IMO, a good thing.

Thirdly, and somewhat similarly, it allows the true Defender from the books to show up ingame for people who enjoy flying thematic ships and lists. Consider my list of points from above:

• Strong shields and heavy damage output
  • Already provided by the base ships 3s in these categories.
• Great manoeuvrability
  • Add the Twin Ion Engine Mk 2 card for 1 point
• Missiles
  • Add a concussion missile for 4 points
• An Ion Cannon and a Tractor beam
  • Add the one point title, three point ion cannon and the one point tractor beam, and then actually use the two cannons thanks to the extra firing opportunity.

All together, that's 10 points of upgrades, (i.e. a 40 point Delta Squadron pilot). You could only fly two of them in any given list and sure, they might not be meta-defining in any way. They might not even be super competetive. But they would be fluffy, potent little ships that I think fans of the Defender would like to put on the board purely as fans, if not as serious tournament players.

I like it. I like the idea of being able to do the non-damage effects of a canon as well as the damage from your normal attack, and I like that you still have to roll for both.

I'm not sure about the double cannons though. Shooting first with a Heavy Laser Cannon, then dealing out ion or stress tokens, is a bit much, so I would restrict it to "after attacking with your primary weapon".

That's the reason I reversed the order in my version, while cleaning up the wording.

"Gain a secnd Cannon slot.

When you hit with a missile or cannon Secondary weapon, you may cancel all dice results. (the attack is still a hit) If you do, you may make a primary weapon attack at the same target."

Aah, I yeah, that's the same isn't it. I had it in my head there was something different about yours (other than including missiles), but I can't remember what I thought it was.

it's slightly better at long range and worse at short range, as the first attack to trigger it does not include range bonuses. It also implies that ion and flechette weapons will still do their 1 damage "if they hit" effect.

Also, for a "standard" HLC or Mangler defender, you can have the situatin where, "I got 1 hit at range 2, but Soont spent a focus and evade to stop it. Let's cancel that 1 point, break soont's stealth anyway, and gunnner with the primary weapon". So it's not strictly limiting the options, just biasing them.

Including missiles is something of a novelty- Ion pulse missiles would be useful despite the canceling, Proton rockets might force them to burn tokens before firing a 4 die primary. Clusters... hmm. Combo might need a nerf (2 primary weapon 3 or 4 die attacks), or it might not (once per game, if both the 3 die cluster attacks hit in the first place), Assault Missiles + Ruthlesness would be hilarius, and Concussion Missiles and Homing missiles are just generally accurate. Advanced homing missiles will definately be nasty.

I like it, goes along with the fluff. I think I would put it in the heavy laser slot, and call it linked.

I also want another title to go with the fluff, gives you the choice of how to out fit them

Ace Pilots (Just like the prototype test pilot)

0 Point

Add an EPT slot to your ship. If your pilot skill is less than 4 you add plus 2 PS.

So 1's become 3's and 3's become 5's

If you make it a generic cannon slot, instead of a Defender title, Iggy B is going to be something to watch out for- miss with primary, hit with cannon, miss with primary, hit with cannon... And with FCS agains an agility 2, you can keep that up for awhile.

Since thee defender cant take gunner anyway we might as well give the cannon version "you cannot make any more attacks this round" That'l limit the Bwing, Aggressor, Shuttle, firespray, and a few others, while the Scyk gets a buff off it and the Outrider doesnt connect at all.

On a slight tangent, does anyone know what a tractor beam token DOES? I haven't seen anything that explains it. Is it like an ion token?

So, we all know that the Defender, despite its fluff as probably the most dangerous starfighter in the galaxy, is a little underwhelming in X-Wing. Part of the reason for that, I think, is that X-Wing just doesn't properly simuate the Defenders full capabilities. The Defender is better than a normal TIE for a bunch of reasons, but primarily because it just has so mnay more features than most other variants; in the books, a TIE Defender has:

• Strong shields
• Heavy Damage output
• Great manoeuvrability
• Missiles
• An Ion Cannon
• A Tractor beam

Now, finally, we have all of those as in-game, but, at present, they can;t all be loaded onto one ship. Hence, I propse the following title:

Why would this be good? Several reasons:

Firstly, it buffs the Defender in a potent but subtle way, and in a way that hasn't, so far, been used to tweak any other ships. It's similar to IG-88 B's ability, but made different by the inability to deal damage with the cannon, which will encourage the use of ion cannons and tractor beams. The ability to do a traditional 3 or 4 dice atack (at range 1), and then potentially deal an ion token or a tractor beam token (or even a stress token I suppose) as well makes the Defender potentially more powerful than any of the other heavy hitters out there - among small based ships (assuming no EPTs and excluding the HLC/prockets, which the Defender could carry anyway), only Corran, the TIE Phantom, Advanced Proton Torpedoes and theoretically a TLT Y-Wing with the BTL-A4 title could do more damage in a single turn, and none could do that damage and add a control element. That seems appropriate for what is supposed to be an incredibly dangerous starfighter.

Secondly, by encouraging the use of control cannons (as opposed to HLCs, Manglers or Autoblasters) it promotes the use of fluffy Defender armament, and helping the game (and the metagame) adhere closer to the SW universe rather than just MinMaxing everything is, IMO, a good thing.

Thirdly, and somewhat similarly, it allows the true Defender from the books to show up ingame for people who enjoy flying thematic ships and lists. Consider my list of points from above:

• Strong shields and heavy damage output
  • Already provided by the base ships 3s in these categories.
• Great manoeuvrability
  • Add the Twin Ion Engine Mk 2 card for 1 point
• Missiles
  • Add a concussion missile for 4 points
• An Ion Cannon and a Tractor beam
  • Add the one point title, three point ion cannon and the one point tractor beam, and then actually use the two cannons thanks to the extra firing opportunity.

All together, that's 10 points of upgrades, (i.e. a 40 point Delta Squadron pilot). You could only fly two of them in any given list and sure, they might not be meta-defining in any way. They might not even be super competetive. But they would be fluffy, potent little ships that I think fans of the Defender would like to put on the board purely as fans, if not as serious tournament players.

So two cannon attacks in a row? Incredibly OP. Take an Ion and a flechette and walk literally any small ship off the board and still have a 3 attack primary for everyone else. Not fun.

No, I meant for it to be primary, then cannon, but forgot to specify that on the card.